STrib Op-Ed: U football crisis: A unionized team would have sacked the problem

[BleedGopher]

per Marshall H. Tanick:

Although the crisis has ended for the short term, it is undeniable that both the Gophers football program and the U itself have suffered incalculable damage in the eyes of current players and their parents, future recruits, the media, donors and other backers, and the public at large.

The audible called by the players might not have been necessary, and the harm could have been averted or minimized, had other means of recourse been available to the squad. One such would be a labor union representing the interests of the players.

If a union existed, U officials would not have been able to take such precipitous action. Instead, they would have had to accord certain rights to the accused players, including giving them a preliminary hearing, known as a Loudermill procedure, to allow them to state their cases against discipline. Even if discipline had been imposed, the players could have pursued a multistep dispute appeal process, culminating in an arbitration proceeding before a neutral decisionmaker.

But without a union college athletes have none of these rights and are subject to the arbitrary and unilateral decisions of U authorities.

http://www.startribune.com/a-unionized-team-would-have-sacked-the-problem/407671666/

Go Gophers!!

 

[gopherveteran]

Coyle will make approximately $1,000,000 this year. How much will the young students be paid?

Who failed?

 

[PMWinSTP]

Coyle will make approximately $1,000,000 this year. How much will the young students be paid?

Who failed?

Dude, you should look up Marshall Tanick. I've dealt with him in employment law cases as adversaries. He loves publicity and this is basically a marketing piece for him.

 

[Wally]

I agree with him 100%, football players should be employees and unionized.
To bad the prevailing sentiment in this country is so f' d up.

 

[Wally]

Dude, you should look up Marshall Tanick. I've dealt with him in employment law cases as adversaries. He loves publicity and this is basically a marketing piece for him.

Are you saying they would have less recourse under a bargained employment contract??

 

[Ski U Master]

Coyle will make approximately $1,000,000 this year. How much will the young students be paid?

Who failed?

Some quick googling shows athletes are paid between 13-25k per year plus a lifetime wages benefit of about $900,000 for having a debt free undergrad degree over just a high school diploma. And the players definitely failed.

 

[gopherveteran]

I work with a former Gopher football player. Both knees and a hip replaced.

Is it free?

 

[50PoundHead]

I have no strong feelings one way or another, but wouldn't some type of representation on behalf of the players create a process that would handle situations like the one we are in with greater consistency?

 

[PMWinSTP]

Are you saying they would have less recourse under a bargained employment contract??

Student athletes are compensated well already. Worked with unions for 20+ years. They are a business, period. They certainly would not have any more recourse, not even a question in my experience.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I work with a former Gopher football player. Both knees and a hip replaced.

Is it free?

I know many who had full scholarships and road the bench.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I have no strong feelings one way or another, but wouldn't some type of representation on behalf of the players create a process that would handle situations like the one we are in with greater consistency?

I think the point being lost here is that students as a whole (includes athletes) are not being served well with the current set of rules and limitations on their Constitutional rights. Cases like this one shed light on these rules and processes and all their failings.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Some quick googling shows athletes are paid between 13-25k per year plus a lifetime wages benefit of about $900,000 for having a debt free undergrad degree over just a high school diploma. And the players definitely failed.

That's a low estimate. Depending on the sport, it's north of $50K per year and could easily approach $100K per year.

 

[GopherBulldog]

Some quick googling shows athletes are paid between 13-25k per year plus a lifetime wages benefit of about $900,000 for having a debt free undergrad degree over just a high school diploma. And the players definitely failed.

Students made an incredibly bad, and possibly criminal, choice. Coyle failed.

 

[GoGophersUMN]

So a union would give players more relaxed rules to follow than usual students? I think that a perceived difference in treatment from normal students is the main reason people are mad at the team in the first place.

I think that a union would help the team in other ways, but I don't think being given more protections when accused of violating University rules is a good argument for a union.

 

[gopherveteran]

Northwestern University players were correct. Administrators and title IX are making
hundreds of millions.

It is good players are starting to skip bowl games. More players should skip bowls
and playoffs in future. Title IX and administrators are making hundreds of millions

 

[PMWinSTP]

So a union would give players more relaxed rules to follow than usual students? I think that a perceived difference in treatment from normal students is the main reason people are mad at the team in the first place.

I think that a union would help the team in other ways, but I don't think being given more protections when accused of violating University rules is a good argument for a union.

Yep, it makes no sense. No way that it would fly having a separate entity to protect them just because they are athletically gifted. A union is a business. Who would pay the initiation fees and the monthly dues?

 

[PMWinSTP]

Northwestern University players were correct. Administrators and title IX are making
hundreds of millions.

It is good players are starting to skip bowl games. More players should skip bowls
and playoffs in future. Title IX and administrators are making hundreds of millions

You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to unions, what they actually do, and how they operate.

 

[gopherveteran]

I have been going to Gopher games for over 40 years. I was at the game in 1967
when the Gophers won the Big Ten.

I have 3 degrees in business and Economics from the University of Minnesota.

I may know nothing, but we are not treating these young men fairly.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I have been going to Gopher games for over 40 years. I was at the game in 1967
when the Gophers won the Big Ten.

I have 3 degrees in business and Economics from the University of Minnesota.

I may know nothing, but we are not treating these young men fairly.

So have I, with two degrees and a masters, that's not my point at all. Having dealt with unions in business for 20+ years, they would screw this up worse, let alone the fact that the prospects of being able to organize and have even a financially functional union would be a huge task.

From one of my earlier posts in this thread...

I think the point being lost here is that students as a whole (includes athletes) are not being served well with the current set of rules and limitations on their Constitutional rights. Cases like this one shed light on these rules and processes and all their failings.

 

[gopherveteran]

I agree unions are a disaster. That was not my point.

 

[gopherveteran]

The issue is how students are being treated and the money being made by
administrators. For example, Coyle will be paid approximately $1,000,000 this year.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I agree unions are a disaster. That was not my point.

I got it, thanks. The problem is much, much broader. I would have never known the convoluted process in place with the EOAA had it not been for this situation, with the report's salacious details. I think most alum are in the same boat. It's a failure of leadership well above a football coach, IMHO. Guarantee the BoR will take care of it.

 

[gopherveteran]

One final comment, as you progress in life do not tell people they have no idea.

Those statements will not help you in the future.

 

[PMWinSTP]

One final comment, as you progress in life do not tell people they have no idea.

Those statements will not help you in the future.

Thanks...I was very specific in what it pertained to, but I get it. Not meant in general in any way...very, very specific in context.

 

[Deleted_User]

So have I, with two degrees and a masters, that's not my point at all. Having dealt with unions in business for 20+ years, they would screw this up worse, let alone the fact that the prospects of being able to organize and have even a financially functional union would be a huge task.

From one of my earlier posts in this thread...

I think the point being lost here is that students as a whole (includes athletes) are not being served well with the current set of rules and limitations on their Constitutional rights. Cases like this one shed light on these rules and processes and all their failings.

Cases like this one show that the rules need to be tightened so that young men don't ruin the life of a woman over a perceived Constitutional right. Due process argument is a shallow one. What did the players lose in the process that can be tangibly applied here, and not some speculative future? Education for the 1 year suspension. That is not a tangible burden and it does not get published at the U on a transcript. And, it was not the fault of the U for the father of an accused releasing the report to everybody on the planet. So, again, what was the harm the U put on the athletes? You are stretching it counselor. Your posts have not proven the argument or tested its validity with any rigor. And, it isn't a Constitutional right to have group consensual sex. There is no law against it. But, there is no established definition of group consent for sex, either.

As for the legal community on the definition of consent, this is the most troubling aspect of the debate. There is no consensus on the definition of consent. Right now, the American Law Institute, cannot agree to a definition on it in regards to sexual consent. It is such a difficult to define subject, the best legal minds cannot agree on a common standard. So, if you are a lawyer, take note. It is hard to prosecute sexual assault as the legal profession cannot define consent within its own ranks, making conviction of rape very difficult to accomplish. Again, the lawyers have been mute on this board on this issue. What the lawyers want to do is cloud the issue with non issues, like taking on Title IX or the role of the EOAA. And, when they do mention consent, it is only that the men had consent, in their professional opinions, opinions where their is no consensus.

So, leave it to the village idiot to reveal the flaws in their most basic argument that consent was evident. It isn't that easy.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Cases like this one show that the rules need to be tightened so that young men don't ruin the life of a woman over a perceived Constitutional right. Due process argument is a shallow one. What did the players lose in the process that can be tangibly applied here, and not some speculative future? Education for the 1 year suspension. That is not a tangible burden and it does not get published at the U on a transcript. And, it was not the fault of the U for the father of an accused releasing the report to everybody on the planet. So, again, what was the harm the U put on the athletes? You are stretching it counselor. Your posts have not proven the argument or tested its validity with any rigor. And, it isn't a Constitutional right to have group consensual sex. There is no law against it. But, there is no established definition of group consent for sex, either.

As for the legal community on the definition of consent, this is the most troubling aspect of the debate. There is no consensus on the definition of consent. Right now, the American Law Institute, cannot agree to a definition on it in regards to sexual consent. It is such a difficult to define subject, the best legal minds cannot agree on a common standard. So, if you are a lawyer, take note. It is hard to prosecute sexual assault as the legal profession cannot define consent within its own ranks, making conviction of rape very difficult to accomplish. Again, the lawyers have been mute on this board on this issue. What the lawyers want to do is cloud the issue with non issues, like taking on Title IX or the role of the EOAA. And, when they do mention consent, it is only that the men had consent, in their professional opinions, opinions where their is no consensus.

So, leave it to the village idiot to reveal the flaws in their most basic argument that consent was evident. It isn't that easy.

Well, you certainly have an agenda to push. I said it much clearer in two sentences. Without all the baggage you saddled within your post.

 

[GoGophersUMN]

Cases like this one show that the rules need to be tightened so that young men don't ruin the life of a woman over a perceived Constitutional right. Due process argument is a shallow one. What did the players lose in the process that can be tangibly applied here, and not some speculative future? Education for the 1 year suspension. That is not a tangible burden and it does not get published at the U on a transcript. And, it was not the fault of the U for the father of an accused releasing the report to everybody on the planet. So, again, what was the harm the U put on the athletes? You are stretching it counselor. Your posts have not proven the argument or tested its validity with any rigor. And, it isn't a Constitutional right to have group consensual sex. There is no law against it. But, there is no established definition of group consent for sex, either.

As for the legal community on the definition of consent, this is the most troubling aspect of the debate. There is no consensus on the definition of consent. Right now, the American Law Institute, cannot agree to a definition on it in regards to sexual consent. It is such a difficult to define subject, the best legal minds cannot agree on a common standard. So, if you are a lawyer, take note. It is hard to prosecute sexual assault as the legal profession cannot define consent within its own ranks, making conviction of rape very difficult to accomplish. Again, the lawyers have been mute on this board on this issue. What the lawyers want to do is cloud the issue with non issues, like taking on Title IX or the role of the EOAA. And, when they do mention consent, it is only that the men had consent, in their professional opinions, opinions where their is no consensus.

So, leave it to the village idiot to reveal the flaws in their most basic argument that consent was evident. It isn't that easy.

The woman's life is ruined? I'm sure it was a traumatic experience but that's going way too far. As far as I know, she isn't injured from the event. No one is going to refuse to hire her because of it.

As to what harm the U did for the athletes, they associated their names with rape when they shouldn't have. Yes, I understand that they didn't publicly say that the players were rapists. But they did announce that the 10 players were suspended for the bowl game after they had already said that they were accused of sexual assault. They basically said that the 10 players were guilty when before all we knew was that they were accused.

I also don't agree with the argument that the player's father should be completely responsible for releasing the report. Why did a report given to 1 player include information about other players? They could have easily given each player their own report with only information pertaining to them. If they did, the report would have only really given information on the 1 player. Plus, once the players' names were out there as the ones who were accused, Kaler used the word "victim" in multiple interviews to describe the accuser. He was using language that basically said that the players were rapists.

 

[Ski U Master]

I work with a former Gopher football player. Both knees and a hip replaced.

Is it free?

Was he told football was a contact sport?

 

[Gopherocious]

Was he told football was a contact sport?

And did he sign a letter of intent or something similar? So he knew exactly what was expected of him, and what he'd be getting in return?

 

[dpodoll68]

The issue is how students are being treated and the money being made by
administrators. For example, Coyle will be paid approximately $1,000,000 this year.

Why do you keep repeating this "$1,000,000" over and over? In reality, it's about $850,000.