STrib: How transferring in Minnesota high school sports reached 'out of control' status (Mpls South HS basketball lost 8 kids to transfer)

[BleedGopher]

per STrib:

Joe Hyser was looking forward to having Minneapolis South's best boys basketball team since he took over the program 27 years ago. He and his team had an opportunity to finally reach the pinnacle: A trip to the state tournament.

A few unanswered phone calls to his players in late June bewildered the Tigers coach.

Soon he learned why the players had turned quiet. His team, with a chance at a top-five ranking in Class 4A, coming off its first winning season since 2015-16, had started to dismantle. Eventually eight players, including all five starters, transferred to five programs in nearby school districts.

"I love each of the young men who transferred. We had a great experience together, one which I will never forget," Hyser said. "Sure, I would have liked to have competed with them for a state title the next two years, but I don't dwell on the past or on what could have been. I like a challenge, and my focus is on improving this year's team and making it competitive.

"Each of the players are having a significant impact on their new teams, so I am happy for them."

Hyser's case is an extreme example of a trend, long building, that exploded in boys basketball this season. A study of rosters and conversations with coaches revealed at least 50 boys basketball players who are playing for new schools this season after scoring in double figures last season. One is playing at his third school in three years.

"There has never been this level of talent — impactful players — who have transferred," said Columbia Heights coach Willie Braziel, president of the Minnesota Basketball Coaches Association. "It's out of control."

The numbers aren't as high in other winter team sports, but transferring is also having an effect. The No. 1-ranked team in girls hockey has three prominent players who transferred before the 2021-22 season. In boys hockey, the number of transfers statewide is in double figures each of the past two years. In girls basketball, Hopkins superteams of recent years were built on players who played youth basketball in other communities.

Hyser blames a mind-set springing from the temporary feel of commitments in college and professional sports.

How transferring in Minnesota high school sports reached 'out of control' status

Transfer numbers are high, and the effect is especially notable in boys basketball.

www.startribune.com

Go Gophers!!

 

[GopherPharmaBiz]

Interesting. Thanks for posting. I was wondering what happened to South this year.

 

[MaxyJR1]

In the metro with club teams, social media and the ability to develop friendships so easily the definition of Community is much larger and different. Kids want to go to school and play with fiends and people who have the same interests as them.

I don't know the answer or if there needs to be one, but the cat is out of the bag and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

the article dances around the point a little bit - so let's lay it out:

are these transfers legitimate or legal under MSHSL rules? there is a quote in the article from an MSHSL official who states very clearly that "they are not an investigative body."

that means it's up to the schools involved to determine whether the transfer meets the criteria. and a lot of that comes down to taking the word of the player or parents that the transfer is legit. so most of the transfers sail through with very few if any questions.

a few years back, there was a kid who transferred from a smaller school to a larger school in SW MN.
the claim was that the parents had separated, and the kid - a good basketball player - moved with the dad to a new school district. I knew a coach who knew the family involved, and he told me flat-out that the whole thing was a scam that the parents cooked up so that the kid could play in a better program without sitting out a year.

as far as what you do about it? the hard-core answer is a firm rule - any transfer for any reason sits out a year. of course, there would be a court challenge........

 

[MaxyJR1]

I just don't think kids care. It's really an adult issue. Here is a quote from the article.

"I don't know how to solve this problem. I do know that there will be a heavy price to pay by our young people who get hurt because we didn't step in and provide accountability and moral leadership when they needed us to," he said. "I believe our society has created a culture of weakness. People are allowed and even encouraged to jump ship when times get tough and go somewhere else where it's easier."

I don't think these kids are all looking for an easier situation, I think they are looking to be challenged in new ways, possibly by better coaches, and against better teammates. Some want to be in a program where all care about mutual goals.

 

[Holy Man]

Sadly for many, it may become the beginning of the end of competitive high school basketball. It sounds like families are starting to treat school teams like club teams. Maybe it’s just time to let the elites play on club teams all year, pick up the bill for it, and let the rest who stay in their neighborhood or choose a school for whatever reason to play inter scholastic sports. My guess is that the competition for the elites gets better but the overall experience declines while they play in front of their parents and scouts and none of their friends.

An overall no transfer rule would be a disaster and punish kids who have good reason to get out of their current situation and have no chance of playing beyond high school.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Not sure of best way to do it, but if the state required every coach to be a teacher in the district, it might help. Not fluff jobs either. Actually, in the classroom teachers. Spit balling but it might be a start. I'm still not sure anything needs to be done.

 

[GopherPlaya]

per STrib:

Joe Hyser was looking forward to having Minneapolis South's best boys basketball team since he took over the program 27 years ago. He and his team had an opportunity to finally reach the pinnacle: A trip to the state tournament.

A few unanswered phone calls to his players in late June bewildered the Tigers coach.

Soon he learned why the players had turned quiet. His team, with a chance at a top-five ranking in Class 4A, coming off its first winning season since 2015-16, had started to dismantle. Eventually eight players, including all five starters, transferred to five programs in nearby school districts.

"I love each of the young men who transferred. We had a great experience together, one which I will never forget," Hyser said. "Sure, I would have liked to have competed with them for a state title the next two years, but I don't dwell on the past or on what could have been. I like a challenge, and my focus is on improving this year's team and making it competitive.

"Each of the players are having a significant impact on their new teams, so I am happy for them."

Hyser's case is an extreme example of a trend, long building, that exploded in boys basketball this season. A study of rosters and conversations with coaches revealed at least 50 boys basketball players who are playing for new schools this season after scoring in double figures last season. One is playing at his third school in three years.

"There has never been this level of talent — impactful players — who have transferred," said Columbia Heights coach Willie Braziel, president of the Minnesota Basketball Coaches Association. "It's out of control."

The numbers aren't as high in other winter team sports, but transferring is also having an effect. The No. 1-ranked team in girls hockey has three prominent players who transferred before the 2021-22 season. In boys hockey, the number of transfers statewide is in double figures each of the past two years. In girls basketball, Hopkins superteams of recent years were built on players who played youth basketball in other communities.

Hyser blames a mind-set springing from the temporary feel of commitments in college and professional sports.

How transferring in Minnesota high school sports reached 'out of control' status

Transfer numbers are high, and the effect is especially notable in boys basketball.

www.startribune.com

Go Gophers!!

The coach that the story is about had a team full of kids who weren't from south MPLS in the first place. This is a very hypocritical article especially coming from the 2 coaches who are quoted the most

 

[Holy Man]

The coach that the story is about had a team full of kids who weren't from south MPLS in the first place. This is a very hypocritical article especially coming from the 2 coaches who are quoted the most

That's a backstory the reporter should have included. South has had open enrolled students for decades for reasons other than sports, though.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

The coach that the story is about had a team full of kids who weren't from south MPLS in the first place. This is a very hypocritical article especially coming from the 2 coaches who are quoted the most

The coach doesn't rag on the kids at all - at least from what i've seen without clicking into the article. Maybe he comes off as a hypocrite in the actual article (I'm not signing up for the Strib), but he doesn't say anything to blast the kids in the quotes available on here.

 

[PhiloVance]

the article dances around the point a little bit - so let's lay it out:

are these transfers legitimate or legal under MSHSL rules? there is a quote in the article from an MSHSL official who states very clearly that "they are not an investigative body."

that means it's up to the schools involved to determine whether the transfer meets the criteria. and a lot of that comes down to taking the word of the player or parents that the transfer is legit. so most of the transfers sail through with very few if any questions.

a few years back, there was a kid who transferred from a smaller school to a larger school in SW MN.
the claim was that the parents had separated, and the kid - a good basketball player - moved with the dad to a new school district. I knew a coach who knew the family involved, and he told me flat-out that the whole thing was a scam that the parents cooked up so that the kid could play in a better program without sitting out a year.

as far as what you do about it? the hard-core answer is a firm rule - any transfer for any reason sits out a year. of course, there would be a court challenge........

Or hire a parent, at a meat packing company, so the son would play basketball in their town.

 

[balds]

The "Get the Suburbs" rule has worked well so far. 100's of kids have transferred without issue (I'm sure all of their families moved within district), but if one of those kids in the suburbs does it..............

The MSHL reading of the rule is laughable based on what's happened since its been "adopted".

 

[MVGopherfan]

Article talks to the South coach, but doesn’t give a reason why 8 players all left??? They all just decided to leave at once? Snowball effect?

 

[SPB_Gophers]

Article talks to the South coach, but doesn’t give a reason why 8 players all left??? They all just decided to leave at once? Snowball effect?

iirc none of them were actually from South, most transferred to osseo and park center

 

[jovs]

The coach that the story is about had a team full of kids who weren't from south MPLS in the first place. This is a very hypocritical article especially coming from the 2 coaches who are quoted the most

Not sure that is true, my nephew was saying that these kids played in the same traveling program and the kids from this program generally went to De Lasalle but decided to stay together at South. What school district were they from originally then.

I guess they were good students and positive for the school.

 

[MNVCGUY]

If you have open enrollment than this kind of thing is unavoidable. As long as everyone is working within the system and not breaking rules than it is what it is when players want to move around.

 

[benlaur]

Is it a problem when a student leaves to a school for a band/music or chess club or any other reasons or do sports have some weird special carve out?

 

[MNVCGUY]

Is it a problem when a student leaves to a school for a band/music or chess club or any other reasons or do sports have some weird special carve out?

Exactly. As long as it is being done within the system that is laid out it really shouldn't be a big deal to anyone if high school kids want to move around from school to school.

 

[Some guy]

Sadly for many, it may become the beginning of the end of competitive high school basketball. It sounds like families are starting to treat school teams like club teams. Maybe it’s just time to let the elites play on club teams all year, pick up the bill for it, and let the rest who stay in their neighborhood or choose a school for whatever reason to play inter scholastic sports. My guess is that the competition for the elites gets better but the overall experience declines while they play in front of their parents and scouts and none of their friends.

An overall no transfer rule would be a disaster and punish kids who have good reason to get out of their current situation and have no chance of playing beyond high school.

All transfers should be legal and elligible immediately for the following school year.
All mid year transfers should be ineligible until august 1 of the next school year


Anything in the middle ends up punishing rule followers and helping rule breakers
Anything in the middle ends up punishing those without means/connections/knowledge of the system and rewarding those with means.


So it needs to be all or nothing.
Wherever you’re scheduled to go to school august 1, you are eligible to play for that school year as long as you’re enrolled in the school. Once you change schools, you can’t play again until the next august 1.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I'm going to get on my "old guy" soapbox.

1st - we are talking about extra-curricular activities for teenagers. In theory, they are supposed to be going to school to get an education or work on a career path. all of the other stuff is extra.

2nd - I have no problem with a student changing schools if there is a legitimate reason. a change of jobs for a parent - the death of a parent - a divorce - maybe one school has a better CTE program or a better computer program. But switching schools - some more than once - because a kid wants to play for a "better" sports team or win more games - I'm sorry, but I just don't see that as a valid reason when it is taking place within an educational setting.

if a kid wants to play with his buddies from another district, he or she is free to do that during the summer. but jumping from school to school to try and create some 'super team' just doesn't seem right to me.

but I'm old.

 

[jovs]

I think the guy that ran the youth program had a big say in where the kids were going to school, I'm guessing he had a falling out with Hyser, or found out he didn't have as much control as he though he would have, or just changed his mind. I don't think Hyser had a lot to do with these kids selecting South or a big influence on whether they stayed.

 

[PhiloVance]

I'm going to get on my "old guy" soapbox.

1st - we are talking about extra-curricular activities for teenagers. In theory, they are supposed to be going to school to get an education or work on a career path. all of the other stuff is extra.

2nd - I have no problem with a student changing schools if there is a legitimate reason. a change of jobs for a parent - the death of a parent - a divorce - maybe one school has a better CTE program or a better computer program. But switching schools - some more than once - because a kid wants to play for a "better" sports team or win more games - I'm sorry, but I just don't see that as a valid reason when it is taking place within an educational setting.

if a kid wants to play with his buddies from another district, he or she is free to do that during the summer. but jumping from school to school to try and create some 'super team' just doesn't seem right to me.

but I'm old.

Almost makes one think it's about sports and not about academics.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Disagree that the cat is out of the bag, as Maxy put it.


Grab the cat by the tail, kick it in the face, and shove it back into the bag.

High school sports shall not be club sports. We already have club sports.


Any transfer of schools, for any reason, doesn’t matter if you move, shall require a season sit out.


Sick of this transfer for sports crap.

 

[GopherPlaya]

Disagree that the cat is out of the bag, as Maxy put it.


Grab the cat by the tail, kick it in the face, and shove it back into the bag.

High school sports shall not be club sports. We already have club sports.


Any transfer of schools, for any reason, doesn’t matter if you move, shall require a season sit out.


Sick of this transfer for sports crap.

Why? How does transfers impact you or anyone else? I hate that people keep saying kids must sit out a year like all these kids will even get an opportunity to play past high school. Punishing them for changing schools isn’t right to me when there are literally kids who transfer schools for a multitude and aren’t athletes but can participate in clubs & activities. Just like in college sports there are people who change schools all the time but they aren’t high profile so no one cares. The people who get upset are more upset about their own vested interest

 

[Gophers_4life]

How does transfers impact you or anyone else?

A star player transferring out for selfish reasons doesn't impact his teammates and their chance to have a better season??

Yeesh

I hate that people keep saying kids must sit out a year like all these kids will even get an opportunity to play past high school.

If they aren't playing anyway, then it doesn't matter if they sit out a year.

Don't want to sit out? Then don't transfer. Have some loyalty.

Punishing them for changing schools isn’t right to me when there are literally kids who transfer schools for a multitude and aren’t athletes but can participate in clubs & activities.

I'm talking about MSHSL.

There are other organization for other intra-school activities. Their decisions about transfers have nothing to do with MSHSL transfers.

 

[GopherPlaya]

A star player transferring out for selfish reasons doesn't impact his teammates and their chance to have a better season??

Yeesh


If they aren't playing anyway, then it doesn't matter if they sit out a year.

Don't want to sit out? Then don't transfer. Have some loyalty.


I'm talking about MSHSL.

There are other organization for other intra-school activities. Their decisions about transfers have nothing to do with MSHSL transfers.

So is it not an opportunity for those kids to play & prove themselves. If the rest of his team is bad and he wants to go to a school where he gets challenged more at practice then why is that a problem. If a kid is accelerated in the classroom but is stuck at a school without adequate resources to challenge them, no one would be upset if they transfer to a more challenging school. Sports fans are ridiculous with this loyalty. So should employees never change jobs? I don’t see why a kid should have to stay at a place if they aren’t enjoying their experience.

 

[balds]

The issue is that most players can (and do) transfer without siting out a season. I could name 20 transfers off the top of my head that didn't meet the MSHL "criteria" and didn't have to sit out.

The 5-6 that I know who were required to sit out a year (based on the same MSHL criteria) all have one thing in common. Suburbs.

Same standard for all would be nice.

 

[Gophers_4life]

So is it not an opportunity for those kids to play & prove themselves.

Let me see if I've got your argument right:
- star player transfers away from team
- that hurts every one of his teammates by making their season less likely to be special
- but actually, he's really doing them a favor ... because he's giving some bench player a chance to prove himself?

Come on.

If the rest of his team is bad and he wants to go to a school where he gets challenged more at practice then why is that a problem.

Perfect! Go to the new team and challenge yourself .... in practice. Just like you said.

Then cheer the team on that season from the bench, as you sit out.

If a kid is accelerated in the classroom but is stuck at a school without adequate resources to challenge them, no one would be upset if they transfer to a more challenging school.

Indeed, isn't school the thing that matters??

New school, new environment, new teachers, new fellow students. That takes time to adjust to.

You want the player to be able acclimate and be successful in the classroom at the new school, right? That takes time. Makes perfect sense to take away the stress of having to start right away at the new program.

So should employees never change jobs? I don’t see why a kid should have to stay at a place if they aren’t enjoying their experience.

They don't have to.

Literally no one is proposing chaining a kid to a desk. Go ahead, transfer. Join the new team. Practice with them. Make new friends.

Just don't expect to play that first season.



A coach is just one person, and isn't actually on the court.

Thwarting all-star teams in school sports is too critical and too important. Must be done.

Go play club sports, if that's what you want. Stay out of school sports.

 

[GopherPlaya]

Let me see if I've got your argument right:
- star player transfers away from team
- that hurts every one of his teammates by making their season less likely to be special
- but actually, he's really doing them a favor ... because he's giving some bench player a chance to prove himself?

Come on.


Perfect! Go to the new team and challenge yourself .... in practice. Just like you said.

Then cheer the team on that season from the bench, as you sit out.


Indeed, isn't school the thing that matters??

New school, new environment, new teachers, new fellow students. That takes time to adjust to.

You want the player to be able acclimate and be successful in the classroom at the new school, right? That takes time. Makes perfect sense to take away the stress of having to start right away at the new program.


They don't have to.

Literally no one is proposing chaining a kid to a desk. Go ahead, transfer. Join the new team. Practice with them. Make new friends.

Just don't expect to play that first season.



A coach is just one person, and isn't actually on the court.

Thwarting all-star teams in school sports is too critical and too important. Must be done.

Go play club sports, if that's what you want. Stay out of school sports.

What all star teams are there? None of the tops teams are starting multiple transfers so this narrative itself is non sense as far the “all star teams”. If a team is that reliant on 1 player then they aren’t likely to have a special season anyway. Forcing a kid to sit out one year just to stop “all star teams” yet allow open enrollment which allows top freshmen to go to the same school anyway n legitimately create a super team doesnt make sense. The one kid transferred to Cherry for exposure & no one even cares but kids in the metro transfer then it’s we got to stop super teams. There should be at least one transfer allowed. If a kid is going multiple years where they are transferring then they should sit. If a kid has to move bc his parents got a new job then why should they have to sit

 

[Gophers_4life]

What all star teams are there? None of the tops teams are starting multiple transfers so this narrative itself is non sense as far the “all star teams”. If a team is that reliant on 1 player then they aren’t likely to have a special season anyway.

First of all, let's not lose sight of why this thread exists. Go back to the OP.

Mpls South lost eight players to transfer for this season:

NAME	POS	HEIGHT	YEAR	TRANSFERRED TO
Justin Benjamin	G	6-0	Senior	Cretin-Derham Hall 1
Monteff Dixon	F	6-6	Sophomore	Cretin-Derham Hall
Jaheim Houts	F	6-6	Senior	Hiawatha Collegiate
Jason Johnson	G	6-0	Freshman	Cretin-Derham Hall
De’Mari Larkins	G	5-9	Junior	Osseo
Temi Omotoyinbo	G	6-5	Sophomore	Osseo
Chaing Ring	F	6-8	Junior	Park Center
Jerome Williams	G	5-9	Junior	Minnehaha Academy

1 Justin Benjamin transferred for football and baseball; he no longer plays high school basketball.
Joe Rull , Star Tribune Source: Star Tribune research


One of the transfers is quoted as:

"We had a lot of potential," Williams said. "We could have possibly won state the next three years and even been nationally ranked."

Williams said Hyser is not to blame for the exodus.

"He is a great coach," he said. "I have the utmost respect for him. I don't think most of our players really understood the long-term vision the coaching staff and our peers had for us."

Forcing a kid to sit out one year just to stop “all star teams” yet allow open enrollment which allows top freshmen to go to the same school anyway n legitimately create a super team doesnt make sense.

I'm only proposing a one year sit out.

If 8 of the best metro players all decide to transfer to some particular public school and are willing to sit out that season, to have an all-star team next season, then there is nothing you can do about that.

But a one year sit out vastly will still damper the rampant issue.

There should be at least one transfer allowed. If a kid is going multiple years where they are transferring then they should sit. If a kid has to move bc his parents got a new job then why should they have to sit

There is room for compromise.

Maybe it could be said that any basketball team cannot play with more than 1 transfer in a season.

That leaves open the possibility that there really is only one transfer, and wouldn't be forcing them to sit out.