STrib analysis of Gopher program: U football a work of art? Not yet


I am sometimes afraid to read anything about the Gophers written by the Startribune. It was a good read, but WOW! Those comments. So much negativity.
 

Very good read and very fair about the recent history of Gopher football.
 

I'll miss having Phil on the beat. While he didn't know that much about College football when he started, he has been very good covering our squad.
 

Agree that it was a very good analysis. Discouraging in some ways there is minimal reaction to it here, while some crap article by Souhan or Gopher baiting by Fat Ass generates dozens of responses.
 


I don't understand how things like this get repeated CONSTANTLY both on this board and in the local media:

"It has happened before. For a decade, Glen Mason kept the Gophers in a state of aggressive averageness, of middling respectability, where attention-grabbing upsets of the league's elite happened almost annually. (And when was the last time you had an inkling that the Gophers were about to shock a national powerhouse?) The Gophers never climbed out of the middle class under Mason, but those 6-5 and 7-4 regular seasons look like a dynasty compared with the destructive Brewster era that followed."

Inaccuracies in this paragraph

1. The Gophers were almost 20 games under .500 in the Big Ten during Mason's tenure with an average conference record that worked out to about 3-5. This is the definition of being BELOW average, not "average averageness"

2. Attention grabbing upsets of the league's elite NEVER happened. Yes the Gophers defeated Penn State when they were ranked highly and also defeated Michigan and Ohio State once each. That said, the most amazing statistic of that decade was that the Gophers NEVER defeated a team that finished in the top 3 of the Big Ten. They beat name teams a few times (certainly not annually) but NEVER beat a team that was elite.

3. The 6-5 and 7-4 regular seasons look like a dynasty compared with the destructive Brewster era that followed. Simple research shows that Brewster was 7-5 in year two and 6-6 in year 3. If you replace Cal with a typical Mason cupcake in year 3, you have two 7-5 regular seasons. In any case, the Gophers were....SURPRISE! 3-5 in the Big Ten in both seasons. Now somehow, these 3-5 seasons became "destructive" under Brewster while they were "average" under Mason.

The rest of this article is really good, but it drives me crazy that these myths about the Mason/Brewster era's of Gopher football get repeated so often by people that should know better.
 

Great post EG#9.

How does that old saying about the media go.....never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 

There is so much wrong with this typical EG#9 Brewster suck up post.

-Mason actually won a few bowl games against decent teams unlike Brewster
-Mason never went 1-11
-Mason blew out lower to middle tier Big Ten teams and respectible teams like Colorado State, Tulsa and Toledo.
-Mason blew out almost all NC cupakes, Brewster either lost to these teams or barely beat them
-Mason never lost to a FCS team, ever
-Other than at Iowa or Madison, it almost always felt like Minnesota had a chance to win on the road in the Big Ten
-MN was almost always tough at home in the B10 under Mason
-There was stability under Mason, Brewster ran a clown show and had Maturi not fired him the next year would have been 1-11 again
-Number one is number one, so suck it if you want to downplay the '99 win in State College
 

Gotta go with EG#9 on this one, at the risk of taking sides.

One glaring difference, at least IMO, between Mase's tenure and more recent years like Brewster's; FCS teams, and even NC cupcakes in general, are MUCH more formidable in the last half dozen years than in the Mase days. In Mason's time, would you ever expect to see a MAC or WAC team playing in a BCS bowl game?

Besides, hard to compare 10+ years body of work to 3.5
 



There is so much wrong with this typical EG#9 Brewster suck up post.

-Mason actually won a few bowl games against decent teams unlike Brewster
-Mason never went 1-11
-Mason blew out lower to middle tier Big Ten teams and respectible teams like Colorado State, Tulsa and Toledo.
-Mason blew out almost all NC cupakes, Brewster either lost to these teams or barely beat them
-Mason never lost to a FCS team, ever
-Other than at Iowa or Madison, it almost always felt like Minnesota had a chance to win on the road in the Big Ten
-MN was almost always tough at home in the B10 under Mason
-There was stability under Mason, Brewster ran a clown show and had Maturi not fired him the next year would have been 1-11 again
-Number one is number one, so suck it if you want to downplay the '99 win in State College

Minnesota is the only Big 10 team where fans would try to portray their coach's 32 - 48 Big 10 record and habit of blowing second half leads in big games as anything but a failure. It is pathetic how many Gopher fans were happy with Mason beating up on weak non-conference opponents and sneaking into second rate bowl games with a losing Big 10 record. It is a loser's mentality and one of the reasons the U's administration has been able to get away with over 40 years of failure.
 

Mason versus Brewster versus Kill?

Mason IMO is the better coach of the three.

Between Brewster and Kill; todate Brewster has proven to be the better recruiter and as a coach while Kill has my vote for being the better coach before taking the job as coach of the gophers...again to date...factoring in talent, records and competition I would have to say it's a lot closer than some would believe and too close to have made this hire.

Brewster was an inexperienced coach who was developing but in the end was done in by errors he made in the beginning....he didn't balance his classes so that he had experienced players in year 4....a mistake Kill won't make.

I want to see what Kill does with his own players. Understandable the best players on this team have been Brewster recruits. However; that doesn't jibe with the rhetoric that the team was supposedly void of talent which I believe will be proven false next season when Kill recruits will be Juniors and sophomores; yet if I'm correct will struggle to win 5 games. If that's the case the Brewster is the better Gopher coach, if Kill wins 6 or more then IMO it's Kill.
 

I don't understand how things like this get repeated CONSTANTLY both on this board and in the local media:

"It has happened before. For a decade, Glen Mason kept the Gophers in a state of aggressive averageness, of middling respectability, where attention-grabbing upsets of the league's elite happened almost annually. (And when was the last time you had an inkling that the Gophers were about to shock a national powerhouse?) The Gophers never climbed out of the middle class under Mason, but those 6-5 and 7-4 regular seasons look like a dynasty compared with the destructive Brewster era that followed."

Inaccuracies in this paragraph

1. The Gophers were almost 20 games under .500 in the Big Ten during Mason's tenure with an average conference record that worked out to about 3-5. This is the definition of being BELOW average, not "average averageness"

2. Attention grabbing upsets of the league's elite NEVER happened. Yes the Gophers defeated Penn State when they were ranked highly and also defeated Michigan and Ohio State once each. That said, the most amazing statistic of that decade was that the Gophers NEVER defeated a team that finished in the top 3 of the Big Ten. They beat name teams a few times (certainly not annually) but NEVER beat a team that was elite.

3. The 6-5 and 7-4 regular seasons look like a dynasty compared with the destructive Brewster era that followed. Simple research shows that Brewster was 7-5 in year two and 6-6 in year 3. If you replace Cal with a typical Mason cupcake in year 3, you have two 7-5 regular seasons. In any case, the Gophers were....SURPRISE! 3-5 in the Big Ten in both seasons. Now somehow, these 3-5 seasons became "destructive" under Brewster while they were "average" under Mason.

The rest of this article is really good, but it drives me crazy that these myths about the Mason/Brewster era's of Gopher football get repeated so often by people that should know better.

Very good points EG#9...another interesting fact about the Mase tenure never brought up: He played 32 teams that finished in the AP Top 25 (final poll) while at MN...record vs. those opponents: 2 wins 30 losses U can't make it up
 

"College football means something in those cities, and that college-sports climate just doesn't exist in Minneapolis. Football games aren't circled on the calendar here the way they are at most Big Ten schools. The Twin Cities have other priorities, especially with four major pro franchises in town, and the gameday atmosphere -- the feeling that something's going on that shouldn't be missed -- doesn't exist to entice casual fans."

Recognition of the original cause of the decline of Gopher football.
 



Go4Broke said:
Minnesota is the only Big 10 team where fans would try to portray their coach's 32 - 48 Big 10 record and habit of blowing second half leads in big games as anything but a failure. It is pathetic how many Gopher fans were happy with Mason beating up on weak non-conference opponents and sneaking into second rate bowl games with a losing Big 10 record. It is a loser's mentality and one of the reasons the U's administration has been able to get away with over 40 years of failure.

Do you understand the difference between defending Mason as a coach vs. Defending Mason against Brew? Refuting a post basically saying that Mason and Brew were about equal, doesn't automatically mean you are happy with Mason.
 

Mason versus Brewster versus Kill?

Mason IMO is the better coach of the three.

Between Brewster and Kill; todate Brewster has proven to be the better recruiter and as a coach while Kill has my vote for being the better coach before taking the job as coach of the gophers...again to date...factoring in talent, records and competition I would have to say it's a lot closer than some would believe and too close to have made this hire.

Brewster was an inexperienced coach who was developing but in the end was done in by errors he made in the beginning....he didn't balance his classes so that he had experienced players in year 4....a mistake Kill won't make.

I want to see what Kill does with his own players. Understandable the best players on this team have been Brewster recruits. However; that doesn't jibe with the rhetoric that the team was supposedly void of talent which I believe will be proved next season when Kill recruits will be Juniors and sophomores yet if I'm correct will struggle to win 5 games. If that's the case the Brewster is the better Gopher coach, if Kill wins 6 or more then IMO it's Kill.

Nope, Gopher Hole Mythology is:

- Kill got virtually NO talent from Brewster.
- The Defense was by far the best part of the team.
- Carter, Wilhite, Hageman and Troy were the heart of that Defense.
- They were all "coached-up".
- No one knows WHERE they came from.
 

Nope, Gopher Hole Mythology is:

- Kill got virtually NO talent from Brewster.
- The Defense was by far the best part of the team.
- Carter, Wilhite, Hageman and Troy were the heart of that Defense.
- They were all "coached-up".
- No one knows WHERE they came from.

I agree that is the myth.
 

or could it be that the new system fit the players' talents better? simply more experience? There are many variables at play here so no one factor is the reason for improvement.
 

Do you understand the difference between defending Mason as a coach vs. Defending Mason against Brew? Refuting a post basically saying that Mason and Brew were about equal, doesn't automatically mean you are happy with Mason.

I don't think there has been even one poster in GopherHole who has ever claimed Brewster was a better coach than Mason. The large majority of the threads devoted to the subject started because a GopherHole poster or local media personality said Mason should not have been fired because Brewster was such a bad coach. Their point usually was that Gopher fans just didn't know how good they had it with Mason. Do you ever listen to Barreiro's show these days? He's got his nose stuck so far up Mason's ass that he has trouble pulling it out. Well the facts clearly demonstrate that Mason just was not as good as they remember and Brewster had a much bigger rebuilding job then they ever understood.
 

Very good points EG#9...another interesting fact about the Mase tenure never brought up: He played 32 teams that finished in the AP Top 25 (final poll) while at MN...record vs. those opponents: 2 wins 30 losses U can't make it up

So you're saying that "attention-grabbing upsets of the league's elite" didn't happen almost annually like the article said?
 

2 and 30 - wow.

And in a classic Mason season (2000), or at least how I remember the Mason years - they followed up that win over Ohio State by giving up 51 points to Indiana (3-4 at the time) and losing, losing at home to NW on a 45 yard td pass at the end of the game (last play of the game), and getting routed by Wisconsin (he had also gotten beat by Ohio at home earlier that same season).

Mase had positives and negatives - at the end of the day, he turned a terrible program into a mediocre program that had the possibility of beating a decent team from time to time and was just as capable (or even more so) of figuring out ways to lose games they were winning or supposedly should have won.
 




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