Speed at the WR position

[MNVCGUY]

Seems like anytime a receiver is brought up the first thing people want to know is what time he ran in the 40. I know some of it is sarcastic surrounding guys like Engle but even in regards to Fruechte the talk centers around his supposed 4.38 speed.

I would much rather have a guy that is a step slow at the receiver position assuming he can do these three things.

1. Run Great Routes
2. Understand how to get separation from the DB
3. Catch the Damn Ball Everytime

In the last 15 years the best two receivers to play at the U were Eric Decker and Ron Johnson. Neither one of them would have been called fast by any stretch of the imagination but they were both dominant players on the college level.

In the end I think this is why I am less enamored with DCT and Jones as compared with some on this board. To me they are fast kids playing WR at this point. They are both really young and have plenty of time to become very good receivers but at this point they are still very raw.

 

[Breakin' The Plane]

You've got to be able to get open and you've got to be able to catch the ball. Blazing speed is great if your route on every play is a fly pattern. You can have Rocket Ismail. I'll take Tim Brown every time.

 

[Flatfoot]

I might add blocking in there somewhere too. Decker was tough and an aggressive (willing) blocker downfield.

 

[dlw4gophers]

MNVCGUY: I know it was only one catch, but I think DCT proved he has the hands on the one long pass reception he had against (IOWEEEEE), I think it was). Still needs to work on routes, but much of that can be taught. I think DCT has a bright future as he gets a little stronger.

 

[corcoran1]

Speed is one way to get open, there are others. What we have had is guys without the speed, strength, technique, and maybe will to get open, and that does not work.
Nebraska just manhandled our receivers, especially in the first half. I really learned something about playing aggressively at cornerback watching them. They had big strong corners and our guys needed knives to get loose.

 

[John Galt]

See my post on positions of need. I agree that we need quality receivers, but we also need a playmaker (RB or WR) who is a threat to score from anywhere when he's on the field. Ever since Maroney, we've been dependent on putting together long drives. While this is good for game management, at some point we need a guy who is a game changer and can put up a quick score.

 

[highwayman]

I don't know, but I think this is a pretty good group. Who will be the GTG? Someone, you can be rest assured of that (obvious answer).

Gray will attempt the same number of passes this year, and will likely be more accurate. He will complete more passes. Unless you have total buffoons at WR, we will have a star emerge. There's ALWAYS one. Always. Closed system. The receptions don't just vanish into space. Barring more transfers, we only lost McKnight as a viable starting WR.

(One year off of the class)
Barker, A.J. 6-1 190 SO
Cesario, C.J. 5-10 181 RS FR
Crawford-Tufts, Devin 6-2 191 FR
Green, Brandon 6-0 186 RS JR
Harris, Ge'Shun 6-3 215 JR
Hutton, Logan 6-1 175 RS FR
Jones, Marcus 5-8 170 FR
Keise, Victor 6-1 180 SO
Kloss, Matt 6-0 197 JR
Moulton, Malcolm 5-11 186 SO
Trucilla, Luke 6-0 175 FR
Wilson, Cameron 6-3 213 RS FR
Isaac Fruechte 6'3" 210
Jamel Harbison 6'0" 191

 

[GopherinPhilly]

Speed provides a different payoff than all those other traits...the ability to stretch a defense vertically alters the game...opens up under neath zones and moves the FS off the line of scrimmage on all downs.

Yes, I love Decker type receivers...and they are much more effective if you have a vertical threat on the field with them. So give me a deep threat, a hard as nails slot that catches everything, a possession guy like Decker and a pass catching TE that can press the deep middle and an O line that can give your QB time...sounds simple but of course it isn't. Oh yeah...and a QB that can read defenses and hit receivers in stride.

 

[nc2mn]

Point number 3 - catch the dam ball!!! I'm convinced that if the receivers last year hadn't dropped so many eminently catchable balls, Q would have approached a respectable completion percentage. Both qb and rcvrs will need to be better next year - and I have faith they will. Especially with help from an offensive team playing the same offense as the previous year. Imagine that!

 

[corcoran1]

Point number 3 - catch the dam ball!!! I'm convinced that if the receivers last year hadn't dropped so many eminently catchable balls, Q would have approached a respectable completion percentage. Both qb and rcvrs will need to be better next year - and I have faith they will. Especially with help from an offensive team playing the same offense as the previous year. Imagine that!

Second half of the season I think you are right, the first half, he just was thining too much and miised the throws.
Getting back to DCT and Marcus J, they were freshmen and contributed more than I remember Decker contributing as a freshman. (And probably had more opportunities because we needed a lot of help. I am not equating anything about them other than they did really well for true freshmen)

 

[Parski1]

I don't know, but I think this is a pretty good group. Who will be the GTG? Someone, you can be rest assured of that (obvious answer).

Gray will attempt the same number of passes this year, and will likely be more accurate. He will complete more passes. Unless you have total buffoons at WR, we will have a star emerge. There's ALWAYS one. Always. Closed system. The receptions don't just vanish into space. Barring more transfers, we only lost McKnight as a viable starting WR.

(One year off of the class)
Barker, A.J. 6-1 190 SO
Cesario, C.J. 5-10 181 RS FR
Crawford-Tufts, Devin 6-2 191 FR
Green, Brandon 6-0 186 RS JR
Harris, Ge'Shun 6-3 215 JR
Hutton, Logan 6-1 175 RS FR
Jones, Marcus 5-8 170 FR
Keise, Victor 6-1 180 SO
Kloss, Matt 6-0 197 JR
Moulton, Malcolm 5-11 186 SO
Trucilla, Luke 6-0 175 FR
Wilson, Cameron 6-3 213 RS FR
Isaac Fruechte 6'3" 210
Jamel Harbison 6'0" 191

This is actually a really good group. Not a position we should be concerned with. I bet the go to will be Moulton if he stops the drops. Has has speed, runs routes well and has the yards after catch.

 

[nsmike]

Missing from highwayman's list is Derrick Engel 6-0 180 lb he showed some hands in the spring game but had to sit out as a transfer.

 

[howieramone]

I don't agree that this is a good group of WR's. I don't want any kid to leave, but if I did most are on that list. They should be close to average next year, but in 2013 when Gray is gone, we need a much better group. Have doubts Harbison signs.

 

[John Galt]

There are only 2 WRs on that list that have proven themselves at all, Green and DCT (which may even be a stretch). There are probably at least 6 who would be lucky to contribute at mid-majors.

 

[corcoran1]

There are only 2 WRs on that list that have proven themselves at all, Green and DCT (which may even be a stretch). There are probably at least 6 who would be lucky to contribute at mid-majors.

No disrespect to JG intended, but I have to agree with him on this post, despite wishing he was wrong.
I would add Moulton and Harris to the list of players who have the athletic ability to play at this level. I am not sure what Harris' issue is, but Moulton has to learn how to hang on to the ball but he is a talented athlete if he can concentrate.
I do believe Fruechte and Harbison, if we can keep him, will be players, but that is a grand total of six, just enough for substitution if we are right about all six and they are healthy.

 

[Big Play]

Why do we need so many good WR's when we run the ball 60% of the plays??

 

[Killjoy]

Why do we need so many good WR's when we run the ball 60% of the plays??

Maybe so we can run the ball 60% of the time. If you don't have a passing threat it is much easier to defend against the run. Also during spring practice we didn't have enough WR to practice at the pace Kill wanted. Kill wants depth.

 

[nsmike]

Why do we need so many good WR's when we run the ball 60% of the plays??

Because when you run that much, defenses will try to cheat, and put extra players in the box. Having good wide receivers, particularly fast ones, makes the play action pass that much more dangerous. If you can beat the corners deep they can't play the safeties up.

 

[zambam]

People seem to be forgetting about Jones.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Missing from highwayman's list is Derrick Engel 6-0 180 lb he showed some hands in the spring game but had to sit out as a transfer.

You're thinking of Matt Kloss.

Kloss had a good spring game (he looked like he was going to contribute, so I don't know if he got hurt or what), but he is a kid from Coon Rapids, played football and ran track at Northern State and transferred here a couple years ago.

I don't think Engel enrolled in the U until this fall. I know he did not decide to transfer to the U until this summer though.

 

[MNVCGUY]

People seem to be forgetting about Jones.

I think Jones is a major x-factor. If he is the same guy he was before he got hurt he could be a weapon but those knee injuries are tricky. Even after they heal it can take the player a while to feel comfortable on it again. A couple examples that spring to mind are Jay Thomas and Jakari Wallace. Thomas looked like he had explosive ability when he first arrived on campus but he dealt with injuries and never really became the guy it looked like he might. Wallace was a smaller speed guy like Jones (though Jones is thicker then Wallace) Wallace dealt with knee issues and it took him a few years to get back close to where he was before he got hurt.

You certainly can't count Jones out but until he comes back and shows that big play ability he seemed to have in limited action last year you can't really rely on him either.

 

[howieramone]

I don't believe we have one above average B1G WR. The two with the highest ceiling will be true sophmores. We can start an experienced junior and senior, but don't think they can prevent the defensive from stacking the line. If Harbison comes, bet he's in the rotation from day one.

 

[EG#9]

Don't know why it's believed that Decker does not have speed. If you watched him this year, he got behind a number of very fast DB's. He took a punt to the house in week 1 as well. He's not Desean Jackson, but he's probably faster than the average NFL WR and he's certainly not a "possession" (ie slow) guy.

 

[Parski1]

Don't know why it's believed that Decker does not have speed. If you watched him this year, he got behind a number of very fast DB's. He took a punt to the house in week 1 as well. He's not Desean Jackson, but he's probably faster than the average NFL WR and he's certainly not a "possession" (ie slow) guy.

I think that is what they call "game speed". Decker is faster in pads then most guys clocked at 4.4 out of pads.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Don't know why it's believed that Decker does not have speed. If you watched him this year, he got behind a number of very fast DB's. He took a punt to the house in week 1 as well. He's not Desean Jackson, but he's probably faster than the average NFL WR and he's certainly not a "possession" (ie slow) guy.

I agree 100% it was kind of the point of my post. What Decker doesn't have is that coveted 4.4 or lower speed that people always seem to want to use as a measuring stick on a WR. Ron Johnson was probably an even better example of the point I was trying to make because he was probably closer to a 4.6 guy but I would gladly trade any receiver on our roster right now to have him back again. Ron was big, knew how to get open, and would catch anything near him.

Too often it seems like people want to believe that fast=good. The whole idea of stretching the field is valid but a guy with good straightline speed doesn't really help you that much if he can't shake the DB who might be a fraction of a second slower then him.

And a final point to the idea that it doesn't really matter who you have because the catches are going to go go to someone they are not just going to disappear. While from a literal standpoint that is true because yes we are going to complete passes it absolutely matters who you have from a scheme standpoint. You have to have WR that defensive coordinators respect so that they scheme their defense to try and take them away. If I was a DC looking to put a gameplan together for Minnesota right now I would have most of my plans focused on putting 8 in the box to stop Gray from running. There is not a receiver on this roster right now (doesn't mean one won't develop or surprise us, but right now) that I would say we need to double cover or worry about. My strong safety would be right up near the LOS as a 4th LB the whole game.

 

[corcoran1]

You're thinking of Matt Kloss.

Kloss had a good spring game (he looked like he was going to contribute, so I don't know if he got hurt or what), but he is a kid from Coon Rapids, played football and ran track at Northern State and transferred here a couple years ago.
I don't think Engel enrolled in the U until this fall. I know he did not decide to transfer to the U until this summer though.

Thanks for clearing that up Bob, I went to a bunch of spring practices both games at the stadium, and I did not remember Engel playing. I hope Engel is very good.
But the issue most of the walkons and several of the scholarship players have is that they are not real fast, and they are not real strong. A couple are really light. Playing against teams like Nebraska, when they have to fight their way off the line, they have a big problem. They are not a threat to outrun the CB, so the DB can play really tight with little risk, and the receiver can't out muscle them so they don't get into their routes fast enough to get open.