Souhan on Tubby: "He's a finger-pointer of the first degree...He must go."

[BleedGopher]

from Souhan's blog:

"Last night, the Gophers held Wisconsin to 16 first-half points and still found a way to lose, because finding a way to lose is what Tubby's teams have done the last two years.

Tubby Smith loses games he should have won, then blames the administration, or his players, or nightlife in Minneapolis. He did take the blame for one mistake: Moving Blake Hoffarber to the point last year. Otherwise, he's a finger-pointer of the first degree.

He must go. But does the new president and his 98-person advisory committee think he should go?"

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/blogs/140859773.html

Go Gophers!!

 

[Deleted_User]

Souhan is on to something. The president and his over sized, over reprentative advisory committees are a waste of everybody's time.

 

[jamalo]

Dpodoll, parski and zambam currently paging through the Tubby Talking Points to determine how to discredit

 

[dpodoll68]

Dpodoll, parski and zambam currently paging through the Tubby Talking Points to determine how to discredit

Dim Soupcan needs no discrediting. He does that plenty well enough on his own. Anything and everything he writes is a complete joke. He is a disgrace to the writing profession in particular and the human race in general.

 

[jamalo]

Dim Soupcan needs no discrediting. He does that plenty well enough on his own. Anything and everything he writes is a complete joke. He is a disgrace to the writing profession in particular and the human race in general.

Perhaps, but it doesn't mean that the points that he makes in specific articles (I haven't read the current one) are necessarily invalid.

 

[Unregistered User]

Dpodoll, parski and zambam currently paging through the Tubby Talking Points to determine how to discredit

Have you ever noticed that Bleed (providing a wonderful service with all these links) usually posts just a link for most stories (see his SI or ESPN link today). But with Souhan he usually provides a few sentences because he realizes that so few people with click the link because they don't want Souhan to garner any more clicks?

Why do you think that is? Because most readers and posters here know how horrible he is as a writer, and speaking for myself, how horrible I imagine his life is.

 

[Blizzard]

I hope everyone will join me in raising a finger to Jim.

 

[jamalo]

Why do you think that is? Because most readers and posters here know how horrible he is as a writer, and speaking for myself, how horrible I imagine his life is.

I don't know that the second part necessarily follows from the first part; the more buzz he creates (positive or negative), the better for his name recognition. I couldn't even tell you who the opinion columnists are in the Pioneer Press, but everyone knows who Souhan and Reusse are because of the reaction that they garner.

 

[minngg]

Shoot the messenger. Always a good plan.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Shoot the messenger. Always a good plan.

Because he always over-exaggerates things.

The Hoffarber thing is the only time he's admitted guilt in his five years at the U?

 

[savagerube]

Shoot the messenger. Always a good plan.

The "shoot the messenger" excuse only works when the writer is writing objectively; the only message in this "article" is Souhan's opinion. By no means is Souhan objective. This article is essentially a blog, not a factual article. All that Souhan does is point the finger-- he's a complete hypocrite. Isn't he just pointing the finger at Tubby?

 

[anonymous]

Uh, Savagerube, it is part of a blog -- Souhan's blog on startribune.com

 

[savagerube]

Uh, Savagerube, it is part of a blog -- Souhan's blog on startribune.com

Yeah like is said it's essentially a blog. Shooting the messenger is when someone is relaying a message. There is no message; it's an opinion. I get that it's a blog. I read the crap that is spewed on this blog frequently.

 

[THE SCOUT!]

souhan the simpleton points his finger at tubby

 

[minngg]

Yeah like is said it's essentially a blog. Shooting the messenger is when someone is relaying a message. There is no message; it's an opinion. I get that it's a blog. I read the crap that is spewed on this blog frequently.

Unless Souhan is wrong 100% of the time, which he isn't. You cannot dismiss the comments just because of the writer. It seems to me he has written some pro-Tubby articles Tubby's first couple of years. Tubby is a finger pointer and there are many quotes one can site as examples.

You can rip Souhan a new one, which is fine by me since I really don't care for him, but that isn't an excuse to dismiss the comments he is making. Many would agree with them.

 

[BigGopherFan]

So Tubby and his great record at the University of Minnesota should stay? Instead of hurling insults and calling the writer a disgrace to the human race (over-the-top and downright evil to say), let's discuss the content. Why do people on here automatically jump right to searing insults instead of open and opinionated discussions?

 

[savagerube]

So Tubby and his great record at the University of Minnesota should stay? Instead of hurling insults and calling the writer a disgrace to the human race (over-the-top and downright evil to say), let's discuss the content. Why do people on here automatically jump right to searing insults instead of open and opinionated discussions?

Tubby is 5-12 with his B squad. I will precede this by saying that Tubby might be a small factor in transfers. Injuries and transfers shouldn't be an excuse 100% of the time, but with the frequency of injuries/transfers in the Gopher's program, it has to be addressed. Any team that loses four potential starters (Devoe, Cobbs, Mbakwe, Royce, Walker) any coach or program is going to regress significantly. Fans will complain about depth and how Tubby should of recruited better; his backups went 5-12 in a year where they played 10 teams that were at the time ranked in the top 25; I believe that's the most matchups against top 25 teams in a season in the last 20 years according to gophersports.com. The aforementioned transfers/injuries are facts, speculation about Tubby "losing" his players, out of touch with today's B1G, is all speculation. Now you can believe whatever you want, but Tubby is playing with ALL backups right now and they still manage to win five games and came damn close in a handful of other games. Royce breaking the law and Devoe doing whatever he did has absolutely nothing to do with Tubby. Mbakwe and Walker obviously aren't Tubby's fault. So point the finger all you want at Tubby. I, as a fan, personally don't care what Jim Souhan writes. We all have such a short memory and often forget that Dre/Austin/Coleman/Rodney/Sampson are ALL second tier players when compared to what have should of been. If you are indeed a BigGopherFan as your moniker suggests, you would see that this team is a result of an aftermath of bad luck. Should Tubby be blamed at all? In some ways yes. Remember that this is Tubby's JV team and they still were competitive in most B1G games.

 

[minngg]

Why do you think kids leave the program? Do you really think it is because they like to move? specially right before their senior years for a couple of them? Why do you think his roster is full of medicore players that will never contend for anything but a possible bubble team next year? Why do you think his recruiting classes have taken a nose dive? Why don't you tell us how, with this roster of JV players and the recruits he has coming in, he is going to contend in the Big Ten? The trransfers are not coming back. The injured players are going to be gone. Then what? Going into his 6th season and we have what? A contender? A deep team full of talent? No, we have a bottom half team for 5 years with no improvement on the horizon. No pg, no shooters outside of possible a freshman and we can't be sure about him, and no scoring forward. The offense is lifeless and teams like Iowa are passing us by. We need a coach with energy, not a coach in semi-retirement blaiming everyone but himself.

 

[bga1]

Tubby is 5-12 with his B squad. I will precede this by saying that Tubby might be a small factor in transfers. Injuries and transfers shouldn't be an excuse 100% of the time, but with the frequency of injuries/transfers in the Gopher's program, it has to be addressed. Any team that loses four potential starters (Devoe, Cobbs, Mbakwe, Royce, Walker) any coach or program is going to regress significantly. Fans will complain about depth and how Tubby should of recruited better; his backups went 5-12 in a year where they played 10 teams that were at the time ranked in the top 25; I believe that's the most matchups against top 25 teams in a season in the last 20 years according to gophersports.com. The aforementioned transfers/injuries are facts, speculation about Tubby "losing" his players, out of touch with today's B1G, is all speculation. Now you can believe whatever you want, but Tubby is playing with ALL backups right now and they still manage to win five games and came damn close in a handful of other games. Royce breaking the law and Devoe doing whatever he did has absolutely nothing to do with Tubby. Mbakwe and Walker obviously aren't Tubby's fault. So point the finger all you want at Tubby. I, as a fan, personally don't care what Jim Souhan writes. We all have such a short memory and often forget that Dre/Austin/Coleman/Rodney/Sampson are ALL second tier players when compared to what have should of been. If you are indeed a BigGopherFan as your moniker suggests, you would see that this team is a result of an aftermath of bad luck. Should Tubby be blamed at all? In some ways yes. Remember that this is Tubby's JV team and they still were competitive in most B1G games.

Savage- You can give Tubby credit for the injured players. To that end I will say we would have been 9-9 or better with Mbakwe because he added the ingredient of toughness and a lay it all on the floor attitude that this team lacked. However, the departed players- no way he gets credit for them. If you have turnover - that's on management. You can either blame it recruiting or the ability to retain the player but either way a player that leaves - that's on the staff. There was a failure to match style of play, assess their personality, their habits and tendencies, assess the toughness of the player, the willingness of the player to accept a role, to tough out the weather, whatever. If a player leaves then you simply should have recruited someone else. Nobody gets it right all of the time, but that's why you have 13 schollys. Players leaving is no excuse- or at least not an acceptable one.

 

[savagerube]

Why do you think kids leave the program? Do you really think it is because they like to move? specially right before their senior years for a couple of them? Why do you think his roster is full of medicore players that will never contend for anything but a possible bubble team next year? Why do you think his recruiting classes have taken a nose dive? Why don't you tell us how, with this roster of JV players and the recruits he has coming in, he is going to contend in the Big Ten? The trransfers are not coming back. The injured players are going to be gone. Then what? Going into his 6th season and we have what? A contender? A deep team full of talent? No, we have a bottom half team for 5 years with no improvement on the horizon. No pg, no shooters outside of possible a freshman and we can't be sure about him, and no scoring forward. The offense is lifeless and teams like Iowa are passing us by. We need a coach with energy, not a coach in semi-retirement blaiming everyone but himself.

Players leave the program because they get suspended or get in trouble with the law. That's why. Answer this question for me: Would the recruiting landscape be completely different if Cobbs/Devoe/Royce/Mbakwe/Walker was our starting lineup right now? Of course it would be because most likely (considering 3 out of the 5 are leading scores on their respective teams) would be winning. You can't blame Tubby for Royce wrestling a security guard! You can't think that Maturi didn't have an impact on this as well. Devoe was suspended (was it drugs? who knows) and he transferred. Your response to my post completely beat around the bush.

 

[dpodoll68]

Why do people on here automatically jump right to searing insults instead of open and opinionated discussions?

Look in the mirror and ask yourself the same. Virtually every one of your posts is searingly insulting Gopher coaches, Gopher players, and Gopher recruits.

 

[bemidjigopher]

Busch and Payton were pushed out to mke room for better players (who ironicaly transferred later) Carter left because his sister had cancer and he wanted to play for a school in Chicago. Allan walked on, than transferred for football reasons. Cobbs was homesick, it happens, certainly understandable. Iverson, not 100%, but I remember Tubby saying that it solved a PT problem at the 5, I'm guessing he realized Eliason was going to take a chunk of his minutes. Devoe, I can't really say, no one's really talked about it, all I know is he got suspended twice and transferred after the second one, and Royce White, well that one was pretty well documented, but he was too talanted not to recruit. I think Brandon Smith got arrested, don't really remember, but I think that was the last year of the Monson era.

 

[savagerube]

Savage- You can give Tubby credit for the injured players. To that end I will say we would have been 9-9 or better with Mbakwe because he added the ingredient of toughness and a lay it all on the floor attitude that this team lacked. However, the departed players- no way he gets credit for them. If you have turnover - that's on management. You can either blame it recruiting or the ability to retain the player but either way a player that leaves - that's on the staff. There was a failure to match style of play, assess their personality, their habits and tendencies, assess the toughness of the player, the willingness of the player to accept a role, to tough out the weather, whatever. If a player leaves then you simply should have recruited someone else. Nobody gets it right all of the time, but that's why you have 13 schollys. Players leaving is no excuse- or at least not an acceptable one.

Parent's have trouble controlling their kids. Is the staff supposed to chaperone these players 24/7? Look at UCLA. I suppose their coach should be blamed for all the drug use, partying, etc. Most importantly, kids change when they go to college. I don't know about you but I was a completely different person when I left for college. Now do you think that Royce White was the same person in High School versus College? If you judge someone's character (i.e. Royce, Devoe) in high school, it changes significantly during college. Assess their type of play? White never put a jersey on and wasn't Devoe a leading scorer for us? Mbakwe was 2nd team All B1G and Walker hardly has a sample size to judge him on? Cobbs, I will give you that. Like I said, I preceded my post by saying that there is some to blame on Tubby but you can't argue that his luck here has been terrible.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Savage- You can give Tubby credit for the injured players. To that end I will say we would have been 9-9 or better with Mbakwe because he added the ingredient of toughness and a lay it all on the floor attitude that this team lacked. However, the departed players- no way he gets credit for them. If you have turnover - that's on management. You can either blame it recruiting or the ability to retain the player but either way a player that leaves - that's on the staff. There was a failure to match style of play, assess their personality, their habits and tendencies, assess the toughness of the player, the willingness of the player to accept a role, to tough out the weather, whatever. If a player leaves then you simply should have recruited someone else. Nobody gets it right all of the time, but that's why you have 13 schollys. Players leaving is no excuse- or at least not an acceptable one.

You know, Beej.... It wasn't until reading this post that I finally recalled one of the most prevalent aspects of management, as it pertains to business: When people leave a job, even if it's for a better job or for more money, it's VERY often due to management or their direct supervisor.

Up until now I hadn't necessarily given Tubby a free pass on the departures, but I hadn't really blamed them on him either. It's probably safe to say that more of the blame lies with Tubby than I had originally considered. Departures are a fact of life, but the numbers so far have been alarming.

As far as injuries, you mention Mbakwe and the ingredient of toughness, etc. You should have included Mo Walker in there as well. Not having BOTH of those guys in the paint this year definitely made them short-handed and likely resulted in a few games going the other way. Just a thought....

 

[savagerube]

Savage- You can give Tubby credit for the injured players. To that end I will say we would have been 9-9 or better with Mbakwe because he added the ingredient of toughness and a lay it all on the floor attitude that this team lacked. However, the departed players- no way he gets credit for them. If you have turnover - that's on management. You can either blame it recruiting or the ability to retain the player but either way a player that leaves - that's on the staff. There was a failure to match style of play, assess their personality, their habits and tendencies, assess the toughness of the player, the willingness of the player to accept a role, to tough out the weather, whatever. If a player leaves then you simply should have recruited someone else. Nobody gets it right all of the time, but that's why you have 13 schollys. Players leaving is no excuse- or at least not an acceptable one.

Then blame Maturi and the Board at the U. Management in College sports is not always just the coach. The NBA's management is the GM, not always the coach.

 

[BigGopherFan]

Tubby is 5-12 with his B squad. I will precede this by saying that Tubby might be a small factor in transfers. Injuries and transfers shouldn't be an excuse 100% of the time, but with the frequency of injuries/transfers in the Gopher's program, it has to be addressed. Any team that loses four potential starters (Devoe, Cobbs, Mbakwe, Royce, Walker) any coach or program is going to regress significantly. Fans will complain about depth and how Tubby should of recruited better; his backups went 5-12 in a year where they played 10 teams that were at the time ranked in the top 25; I believe that's the most matchups against top 25 teams in a season in the last 20 years according to gophersports.com. The aforementioned transfers/injuries are facts, speculation about Tubby "losing" his players, out of touch with today's B1G, is all speculation. Now you can believe whatever you want, but Tubby is playing with ALL backups right now and they still manage to win five games and came damn close in a handful of other games. Royce breaking the law and Devoe doing whatever he did has absolutely nothing to do with Tubby. Mbakwe and Walker obviously aren't Tubby's fault. So point the finger all you want at Tubby. I, as a fan, personally don't care what Jim Souhan writes. We all have such a short memory and often forget that Dre/Austin/Coleman/Rodney/Sampson are ALL second tier players when compared to what have should of been. If you are indeed a BigGopherFan as your moniker suggests, you would see that this team is a result of an aftermath of bad luck. Should Tubby be blamed at all? In some ways yes. Remember that this is Tubby's JV team and they still were competitive in most B1G games.

Although I found myself chuckling with complete disgust halfway through your statement, I do respect your opinion. However, I 100% disagree with just about everything you wrote.

I don't sit down to watch the Gophers "play hard" and as you say, "stay competitive." I sit down to watch the Gophers win. Period. Tubby Smith has completely lost this program. It's been well documented that he rarely takes blame and sometimes doesn't even refer to the team as "we." His recruiting is getting worse and his current list of players are downright second rate. Top-notch talent such as Cobbs and Joseph simply don't fit his system -- so they leave and have great individual success elsewhere. His stubborn offensive hockey-style subs are annoying and his players simply don't seem to get much better under his guidance. Injuries are part of the game and he hasn't been able to adjust. He't not the only coach in the conference to lose a key player or two. He blew the Michigan State game and routinely puts his players in position to fail, not succeed.

And Royce White...who knows. I blame the kid for being an idiot and I don't blame Smith for recruiting him. But why couldn't Smith connect with White like Hoiberg obviously is? Royce said he would have attended Minnesota no matter who the coach was, so don't think Smith's superior recruiting brought him in, because it didn't. He was going to sign with the Gophers regardless of the coach.

 

[scher215]

Savage- You can give Tubby credit for the injured players. To that end I will say we would have been 9-9 or better with Mbakwe because he added the ingredient of toughness and a lay it all on the floor attitude that this team lacked. However, the departed players- no way he gets credit for them. If you have turnover - that's on management. You can either blame it recruiting or the ability to retain the player but either way a player that leaves - that's on the staff. There was a failure to match style of play, assess their personality, their habits and tendencies, assess the toughness of the player, the willingness of the player to accept a role, to tough out the weather, whatever. If a player leaves then you simply should have recruited someone else. Nobody gets it right all of the time, but that's why you have 13 schollys. Players leaving is no excuse- or at least not an acceptable one.

I do agree to some extent.

The only thing I would counter with is that with a few guys he was stuck. He had to take Royce. You can't let one of the few 5* players out of Minnesota walk. You just can't.

Devoe, While I think Tubby liked him, I think he was also signed in part to get Cory. However, the plan back fired and it was a risk Tubby took. He has to be held responsible for that. Not saying Devoe is a model citizen, but you're right. Tubby took a risk and has to deal with what happened.

Same with Cobbs, who I believe left to go home, but also because he was behind Al, Devoe, Blake, and Westbrook for any playing time at the 1 or 2. Iverson got behind Mo, Trevor, Ralph, and most likely Elliot would have gotten minutes too. While I can't blame a guy for leaving because he won't get minutes, I think it also speaks to Tubby not having a solid rotation. If he does that, guys don't have to wonder about minutes, but they know their role and know to work hard to get more. Tubby would have taken minutes from Senior Colt to give to Freshman and Sophmore EE and Mo. Plus, and this I can't blame Tubby for, there is no way Ralph and Trevor weren't starting. No way. Ralph is more skilled than Colton and Trevor is Trevor. No one wants to be a senior and not start. You can't blame Tubby for getting Trevor. And I can't blame Colt for wanting to leave at that point.

HOWEVER, to Savagerube's post you quoted. I think he is SEVERELY selling this roster short. Sure, Royce would be a game changer, no doubt about that. But, IMO, Andre is better than Devoe or Cobbs were as freshman. Austin is better than Devoe or Cobbs probably were/would have been as Sophmore's. Walker could have been better than Colton as a Sophomore and Trevor and Royce are about equal right now (Although, Royce going forward will probably be better).

Of course those 5 would be starting now, they are all upper classmen with the exception of Royce and Walker. Once Andre, Coleman, Mo and Austin are all Jr's and Sr's, regardless of coach, I bet you never hear Cobbs or Devoe mentioned again. Cobbs and Devoe sat behind a bunch of seniors, Dre, Joe and Austin have learned on the fly and I think will develop greatly going forward from it.

 

[scher215]

Although I found myself chuckling with complete disgust halfway through your statement, I do respect your opinion. However, I 100% disagree with just about everything you wrote.

I don't sit down to watch the Gophers "play hard" and as you say, "stay competitive." I sit down to watch the Gophers win. Period. Tubby Smith has completely lost this program. It's been well documented that he rarely takes blame and sometimes doesn't even refer to the team as "we." His recruiting is getting worse and his current list of players are downright second rate. Top-notch talent such as Cobbs and Joseph simply don't fit his system -- so they leave and have great individual success elsewhere. His stubborn offensive hockey-style subs are annoying and his players simply don't seem to get much better under his guidance. Injuries are part of the game and he hasn't been able to adjust. He't not the only coach in the conference to lose a key player or two. He blew the Michigan State game and routinely puts his players in position to fail, not succeed.

And Royce White...who knows. I blame the kid for being an idiot and I don't blame Smith for recruiting him. But why couldn't Smith connect with White like Hoiberg obviously is? Royce said he would have attended Minnesota no matter who the coach was, so don't think Smith's superior recruiting brought him in, because it didn't. He was going to sign with the Gophers regardless of the coach.

Not saying I completely disagree with you. Although, I would prefer to watch them work hard and compete and lose than to be lazy and not show up and lose. That said, winning is obviously the best outcome.

However, we really have no idea how the recruiting for next year is. For all people say "I don't care what they are rated, let's see how they play" we won't know how good this class is until next season at the earliest. I think it is very premature to write off Ellenson and Buggs before they even step foot on campus. I also think it is premature to assume no development from Austin, Andre, Joe, Mo, EE, and others. Regardless of Smith's ability to develop players, these all seem like hard working kids. And if I recall correctly, Smith can't even have much contact with them in the off season so it is on them to work hard, and I fully believe they all will.

But if there are more transfers and/or next season is another failure, then I will be fully on board the "make a change" wagon. I may consider letting him coach one more year after that to just run the contract out and avoid us paying him any buy out (With the chance he just quits due to that strategy). The program already had a rough two years, I don't think Tubby could drive it any further down besides another scandal. He can't do much worse than the last two years have been.

 

[savagerube]

Although I found myself chuckling with complete disgust halfway through your statement, I do respect your opinion. However, I 100% disagree with just about everything you wrote.

I don't sit down to watch the Gophers "play hard" and as you say, "stay competitive." I sit down to watch the Gophers win. Period. Tubby Smith has completely lost this program. It's been well documented that he rarely takes blame and sometimes doesn't even refer to the team as "we." His recruiting is getting worse and his current list of players are downright second rate. Top-notch talent such as Cobbs and Joseph simply don't fit his system -- so they leave and have great individual success elsewhere. His stubborn offensive hockey-style subs are annoying and his players simply don't seem to get much better under his guidance. Injuries are part of the game and he hasn't been able to adjust. He't not the only coach in the conference to lose a key player or two. He blew the Michigan State game and routinely puts his players in position to fail, not succeed.

And Royce White...who knows. I blame the kid for being an idiot and I don't blame Smith for recruiting him. But why couldn't Smith connect with White like Hoiberg obviously is? Royce said he would have attended Minnesota no matter who the coach was, so don't think Smith's superior recruiting brought him in, because it didn't. He was going to sign with the Gophers regardless of the coach.

A key player or two? He lost a leading Big 12, two Pac 12 leading scorers, All B1G caliber player, Top 150 recruit in Walker. C'mon now!

 

[bga1]

I do agree to some extent.

The only thing I would counter with is that with a few guys he was stuck. He had to take Royce. You can't let one of the few 5* players out of Minnesota walk. You just can't.

Devoe, While I think Tubby liked him, I think he was also signed in part to get Cory. However, the plan back fired and it was a risk Tubby took. He has to be held responsible for that. Not saying Devoe is a model citizen, but you're right. Tubby took a risk and has to deal with what happened.

Same with Cobbs, who I believe left to go home, but also because he was behind Al, Devoe, Blake, and Westbrook for any playing time at the 1 or 2. Iverson got behind Mo, Trevor, Ralph, and most likely Elliot would have gotten minutes too. While I can't blame a guy for leaving because he won't get minutes, I think it also speaks to Tubby not having a solid rotation. If he does that, guys don't have to wonder about minutes, but they know their role and know to work hard to get more. Tubby would have taken minutes from Senior Colt to give to Freshman and Sophmore EE and Mo. Plus, and this I can't blame Tubby for, there is no way Ralph and Trevor weren't starting. No way. Ralph is more skilled than Colton and Trevor is Trevor. No one wants to be a senior and not start. You can't blame Tubby for getting Trevor. And I can't blame Colt for wanting to leave at that point.

HOWEVER, to Savagerube's post you quoted. I think he is SEVERELY selling this roster short. Sure, Royce would be a game changer, no doubt about that. But, IMO, Andre is better than Devoe or Cobbs were as freshman. Austin is better than Devoe or Cobbs probably were/would have been as Sophmore's. Walker could have been better than Colton as a Sophomore and Trevor and Royce are about equal right now (Although, Royce going forward will probably be better).

Of course those 5 would be starting now, they are all upper classmen with the exception of Royce and Walker. Once Andre, Coleman, Mo and Austin are all Jr's and Sr's, regardless of coach, I bet you never hear Cobbs or Devoe mentioned again. Cobbs and Devoe sat behind a bunch of seniors, Dre, Joe and Austin have learned on the fly and I think will develop greatly going forward from it.

Agreed. Point is Tubby signed all of these guys that left. If it would have all worked out and we won a Big Ten Championship or made a nice run in the NCAAs- Tubby would be receiving huge credit and rightfully so. However, by the same token, when it falls apart you accept the blame. That's what goes with the job, the paycheck and the notoriety. Tubby is getting blamed because it just has not worked out.....yet. Let's hope he can be around to catch praise if he turns it around. Negative momentum is very, very hard to turn without big changes.