So much for the one year talk

[FiveStarFan]

Everyone kept saying how the reason coaches "turned down" the OC position was because of the U only offering a one year contract...We Coach Fisch got a two year deal. As I have been saying, these level two candidates that decided they were "committed" to their schools really were never offered the job. Otherthan Chaney going to Tenn. for way more money than we could ever offer, Brew prob didnt get his #1 or 2 choice in Applewhite and Huepel, but I feel we have a guy that will be here for atleast a full recruiting class which is saying something for what we've had. Lets put together a KICKASS offense for Childress to be jealous of!

 

[GopherGod]

It is a sad state however that we have to pay a bonus just to keep the guy here beyond a year. I am wondering if Brewsters reputation for dumping coaches early is catching up with him. I hope coach fisch does well but it seems like we are paying a pretty hefty price for a OC that hasn't done the job before.

"This is my first time as coordinator, calling plays,'' Fisch said. "I hope I can take everything I've learned and make it my own.''

The Gophers signed him to a two-year contract that could be worth a total of $650,000. He has a $200,000 base salary from now through Feb. 15, 2010. If he's still on staff as of March 1, 2010, he gets a $125,000 bonus. The second year of the deal calls for a $325,000 salary.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Our new OC is quoting Paula Abdul

Fisch said. "I hope I can take everything I've learned and make it my own.''

Fisch is taking Paula's advice to everyone on American Idol. I don't care what he makes it just make it score.

 

[dbaldrich1]

Why The Negative Spin?

"It is a sad state however that we have to pay a bonus just to keep the guy here beyond a year. I am wondering if Brewsters reputation for dumping coaches early is catching up with him. I hope coach fisch does well but it seems like we are paying a pretty hefty price for a OC that hasn't done the job before."

Although I see where you're going with this line of thinking, it's the wrong take in my opinion. I don't believe that the bonus HAD to be offered because of Brew's "reputation for dumping coaches." He didn't dump Withers or Roof, and he gave Dunbar two years to be successful. The OL coach getting let go was done because the line wasn't producing.

I believe that the bonus was/is an incentive designed to avoid what happened with Roof and Withers. If Fisch chooses to leave after just one year (before March 1st, 2010), then he gives up about 38.5% of his possible salary. That's a hefty incentive to hang around, and it's a way of creating the continuity from year to year that some people on this board have been clamoring for. If he does leave before 3/1/10, we're only out $200K which isn't exorbitant for an OC as far as I can tell.

Of course, if Fisch does really well next year and some team comes offering $500,000 a year, then the $125,000 bonus won't have as big an impact monetarily. If that happens, then more power to him, since it'll mean that the offense was really good.

I don't see this setup as a negative for the Gophers.

 

[GopherGod]

"It is a sad state however that we have to pay a bonus just to keep the guy here beyond a year. I am wondering if Brewsters reputation for dumping coaches early is catching up with him. I hope coach fisch does well but it seems like we are paying a pretty hefty price for a OC that hasn't done the job before."

Although I see where you're going with this line of thinking, it's the wrong take in my opinion. I don't believe that the bonus HAD to be offered because of Brew's "reputation for dumping coaches." He didn't dump Withers or Roof, and he gave Dunbar two years to be successful. The OL coach getting let go was done because the line wasn't producing.

I believe that the bonus was/is an incentive designed to avoid what happened with Roof and Withers. If Fisch chooses to leave after just one year (before March 1st, 2010), then he gives up about 38.5% of his possible salary. That's a hefty incentive to hang around, and it's a way of creating the continuity from year to year that some people on this board have been clamoring for. If he does leave before 3/1/10, we're only out $200K which isn't exorbitant for an OC as far as I can tell.

Of course, if Fisch does really well next year and some team comes offering $500,000 a year, then the $125,000 bonus won't have as big an impact monetarily. If that happens, then more power to him, since it'll mean that the offense was really good.

I don't see this setup as a negative for the Gophers.

Offering an incentive to stay beyond 1 season is definitely not the norm imo. Coaches want time to implement their system and everyone seems to be saying give Brewster time, well shouldn't this same logic apply to OL coach Meyer and Dunbar then as well. Assistant coaches want to feel that they have the time to implement their system with the athletes they want as well and to not feel like the HC is looking over their shoulder for their replacement constantly.

 

[biggieb45]

I am wondering if Brewsters reputation for dumping coaches early is catching up with him.

Dunbar is the only coordinator that was 'fired'. Whithers left for another job as did Roof. Brew fired 1 coordinator in 2 years. Dunbar was fired because his offense sucked last year. I don't want a OC here that is scared to be fired if they fail anyways.

 

[Jeshurun]

Offering an incentive to stay beyond 1 season is definitely not the norm imo. Coaches want time to implement their system and everyone seems to be saying give Brewster time, well shouldn't this same logic apply to OL coach Meyer and Dunbar then as well. Assistant coaches want to feel that they have the time to implement their system with the athletes they want as well and to not feel like the HC is looking over their shoulder for their replacement constantly.

I think I have yet to hear you say a single positive thing. We must be the absolute worst team in the nation, since you cannot find anything positive to say about the Gophers.

 

[GopherGod]

Dunbar is the only coordinator that was 'fired'. Whithers left for another job as did Roof. Brew fired 1 coordinator in 2 years. Dunbar was fired because his offense sucked last year. I don't want a OC here that is scared to be fired if they fail anyways.

I guess the question becomes then, how much time is a HC given before he is considered a success or failure and how much time is a coordinator or position coach given before he is considered a success or failure?

 

[2nd Degree Gopher]

Another thought on the contract structure

Don’t doubt that the bonus was structured in large part as an incentive to stick around beyond the first season, but I suspect the fact that they may be paying Dunbar $270K next year is also a reason to push a significant part of Fisch’s salary into 2010.

 

[biggieb45]

I guess the question becomes then, how much time is a HC given before he is considered a success or failure and how much time is a coordinator or position coach given before he is considered a success or failure?

I don't think there is a certain amount of time. I think it is about progress. If the offense would have taken a step forward, Dunbar would still be here. We all know the offense took two steps back (at least). I give Brew credit for seeing this quickly and doing his best to resolve it. Will it work? I don't know, but I sure as hell hope so! I'll be optimistic and support the hire though.

Position coaches? Honestly, I have no clue. To me, they seem to come and go from every program. I could be wrong, so I'm not even going try and guess. I'll leave it up to Brew to decide if the position coaches are successful or not.

 

[GopherGod]

I don't think there is a certain amount of time. I think it is about progress. If the offense would have taken a step forward, Dunbar would still be here. We all know the offense took two steps back (at least). I give Brew credit for seeing this quickly and doing his best to resolve it. Will it work? I don't know, but I sure as hell hope so! I'll be optimistic and support the hire though.

Position coaches? Honestly, I have no clue. To me, they seem to come and go from every program. I could be wrong, so I'm not even going try and guess. I'll leave it up to Brew to decide if the position coaches are successful or not.

I am not a pro-Dunbar guy but am just playing devils advocate but you state the offense took two steps back, two steps back from where a 1-11 season? Woulddn't Dunbar have the same argument that is so often given for Brewster that he doesn't have the talent yet to do what he wants or needs to do?

 

[harrys ghost]

I am not a pro-Dunbar guy but am just playing devils advocate but you state the offense took two steps back, two steps back from where a 1-11 season? Woulddn't Dunbar have the same argument that is so often given for Brewster that he doesn't have the talent yet to do what he wants or needs to do?

I could be wrong but I believe, except for turnovers, last years offense was down pretty much across the board. Lots of new faces had quite a bit to do with it though.

 

[ncgo4]

Thank you, Harry. The only real good part of our offense last year was the fact that the DEFENSE gave them the ball in good places. Except for those turnovers we would have had 3 wins instead of 7.

 

[biggieb45]

I am not a pro-Dunbar guy but am just playing devils advocate but you state the offense took two steps back, two steps back from where a 1-11 season? Woulddn't Dunbar have the same argument that is so often given for Brewster that he doesn't have the talent yet to do what he wants or needs to do?

This is just my opinion from watching in the student section. When we were 1-11, the offense was able to move the ball and rack up points that season. It was the defense that couldn't stop anyone. I was optimistic that the offense would progress this year...

This year, the offense didn't even come close to the offense from the 1-11 team. There wasn't a vertical component to the offense. That was very frustrating. Most passes were at the line of scrimmage or within 5-10 yards of the LOS. The running game was bland. We just couldn't move the ball, plain and simple. If the offense could have kept the D off the field more often, I think we could have had a special season. Not Big Ten Champs but 9 wins was within reach with any sort of offensive production.

Does Dunbar have an argument? Yes. I NEVER said he didn't. Injuries hampered the offense all season. I still think there was enough talent for the offense to progress, but it just never happened. This is all my opinion...I never claim to have all the answers

GG, do you think Dunbar did enough to warrant more time and did you see progression in the offense from 2007 to 2008?

 

[FiveStarFan]

incentive bonuses are the only contractual way the colleges are able to try and keep a coach around for their full contract, and even this isnt 100% sure. You guys act like this is the first time this has happend. Even Brew has a similar deal and is becoming more and more frequent in college football. Try not to look at it as a bonus, its more what the contract would be if the colleges could trust that the coaches wouldnt bail on them early.

 

[GopherGod]

incentive bonuses are the only contractual way the colleges are able to try and keep a coach around for their full contract, and even this isnt 100% sure. You guys act like this is the first time this has happend. Even Brew has a similar deal and is becoming more and more frequent in college football. Try not to look at it as a bonus, its more what the contract would be if the colleges could trust that the coaches wouldnt bail on them early.

That is true but they are not usually given a longevity bonus after season one, normally done so that if you stay through the whole contract or several years into the contract then you get the bonus. It is a great deal for Coach Fisch and I don't blame him at all for taking it, I would. I just find it sad that we have to offer this to get a coach to stay beyond one year.

 

[FiveStarFan]

He recently interviewed for two NFL OC positions. Can you imagine if he turns our offense into something in one year? He would be a very hot coaching name. The U wasnt going to give him a three or four year deal. I would rather not go through another one year and done coach dor whatever reason. Unfortunitly these days you gotta pay to play with the big boys.

 

[harrys ghost]

That is true but they are not usually given a longevity bonus after season one, normally done so that if you stay through the whole contract or several years into the contract then you get the bonus. It is a great deal for Coach Fisch and I don't blame him at all for taking it, I would. I just find it sad that we have to offer this to get a coach to stay beyond one year.

It's a two year contract. So, you're saying if this is done on a three year contract it's o.k. but not on a two? I thinks Holt's contract at Washington is structured a similar way over three years (but for much more money). So is that o.k. or does it need to be four years?

 

[FiveStarFan]

people don't look at it as an incentive "bonus" look at it more of instead of getting his full contract he is being withheld $125,000 of it until that date to ensure he is still on staff. It gives the U some financial protection.

 

[GopherGod]

This is just my opinion from watching in the student section. When we were 1-11, the offense was able to move the ball and rack up points that season. It was the defense that couldn't stop anyone. I was optimistic that the offense would progress this year...

This year, the offense didn't even come close to the offense from the 1-11 team. There wasn't a vertical component to the offense. That was very frustrating. Most passes were at the line of scrimmage or within 5-10 yards of the LOS. The running game was bland. We just couldn't move the ball, plain and simple. If the offense could have kept the D off the field more often, I think we could have had a special season. Not Big Ten Champs but 9 wins was within reach with any sort of offensive production.

Does Dunbar have an argument? Yes. I NEVER said he didn't. Injuries hampered the offense all season. I still think there was enough talent for the offense to progress, but it just never happened. This is all my opinion...I never claim to have all the answers

GG, do you think Dunbar did enough to warrant more time and did you see progression in the offense from 2007 to 2008?

I will first say that I am not a huge fan of the spread, however I will say that if Brewster had done enough to warrant more time that Dunbar had as well, especially when you consider that he had proven success at other jobs as a OC which is more than Brewster could say as a HC. If Brewster didn't have the talent then in turn Dunbar didn't have the talent either. Dunbar did exactly what he was hired here to do and that was run his offense, he has stayed true to his offensive philosophy from job to job. If Brewster didn't want to run this type of offense and wanted more of a running attack then why did he hire him in the first place, it isn't as if Dunbar pulled a 180 with his scheme after getting here. Did I see the progress with the offense on the field that I wanted this year, no. Do I think Dunbar and Meyer should be the sole scapegoats for our struggles on offense, no. Brewster needs to bear some of that responsibility as well.

 

[FiveStarFan]

I feel Brew has felt it people are already calling for the extreme and wanting him gone. I myself think if he is given his full term will be a pretty damn good HC for us.

 

[dbaldrich1]

The Real Question Regarding Dunbar...

is whether he was asked to resign ("fired"), or whether he and Brew talked it over and Dunbar said "I understand where you're trying to go, offensively, and it just doesn't match my vision."

If the answer is the former, then GG's question is somewhat valid. We had a young and inconsistent OL, and we had very young RBs and WRs, so Dunbar really didn't have a chance to get the best out of his system due to lack of experienced talent. It doesn't seem right that a guy should be fired because he couldn't get offensive consistency out of guys who weren't ready to be consistent (either due to lack of talent or experience).

I believe the answer is the latter. Brewster decided that he wanted to make some changes offensively, and implement some power running sets into the existing offense. He brought in Tim Davis as the new OL coach and Running Game Coordinator, presumably to take on the coaching and teaching of the OL and RBs, e.g. the running game. He probably told Dunbar that he expected that Dunbar would keep the coaching and teaching of the passing game, create the gameplan with input from Davis, and call the plays including the new power running portion. Dunbar probably said "thanks, but no thanks", because he didn't feel like a fit with Brew's changes, so they worked out a deal where he would resign to pursue other opportunities, and get paid until he found a new gig.

In this case, the direction of the program changed, and Dunbar and Brew agreed it was time to part ways.

 

[Schnoodler]

I think most people could see what needed to change by the end of the season. The inflexibility in the offensive scheme was blatently obvious. Would Dunbar have been successful with more time? Probably. But Brew needs to coach, and when you can't do what you want to do through your assistants (OC in this case) then you need to make a change.

He obviously saw a need for a different direction, more flexibility. Dunbar wasn't his guy. What's Brew suppose to do about it. Throw in the towel because he Dunbar was already here. No, you make a change. You find a guy that will fulfill you vision.

I guess I don't see the argument, was Brew suppose to fire himself because Dunbar's resume is longer and more accomplished than his own? Brew is just as responsible if not more so for the situation at hand. The difference is that Brew is the boss and not Dunbar. He took ownership, made the change and is moving on. Of course. I'm guessing he hoped things would have worked out better. They didn't.

 

[biggieb45]

I will first say that I am not a huge fan of the spread, however I will say that if Brewster had done enough to warrant more time that Dunbar had as well, especially when you consider that he had proven success at other jobs as a OC which is more than Brewster could say as a HC. If Brewster didn't have the talent then in turn Dunbar didn't have the talent either. Dunbar did exactly what he was hired here to do and that was run his offense, he has stayed true to his offensive philosophy from job to job. If Brewster didn't want to run this type of offense and wanted more of a running attack then why did he hire him in the first place, it isn't as if Dunbar pulled a 180 with his scheme after getting here. Did I see the progress with the offense on the field that I wanted this year, no. Do I think Dunbar and Meyer should be the sole scapegoats for our struggles on offense, no. Brewster needs to bear some of that responsibility as well.

I disagree completely. Brew warrants more time because the program improved, he continually brings in better talent, and promotes the program. That is his job. Dunbar's job is to improve the offense. That did not happen. I still do not believe Dunbar was 'fired'. He wore out his welcome in Northwestern and Cal. He is unwilling to change his offensive philosophy. Brew wants to incorporate a power running aspect because there was not progress in the offense. You agree to this in your post. Dunbar seems unwilling to change his offensive sets and play calling, that is why he was fired/quit. I believe Dunbar and Brew came to an understanding that they were not going to agree on the direction the offense should go. They parted ways because of it. It happens. I believe Dunbar would still be here if he was willing to incorporate power running sets and work with coach Davis. He was not willing, so he is gone.

GG, when did I say none of this is Brews responsibility? Please do not puts words in my mouth. He brought in Dunbar and it didn't workout, that is on Brew. To his credit, he is willing to change and adapt to improve the Gopher program. He will do what it takes. Will he be successful? We'll see in the next couple of seasons. I believe things are going in the right direction though.

 

[grunkiejr]

I guess the question becomes then, how much time is a HC given before he is considered a success or failure and how much time is a coordinator or position coach given before he is considered a success or failure?

GG-The norm for judging a Head Coach is 4-5 years. When Athletic Directors hire a HC the norm is a 5 year contract so that the coach can bring his own players in to the program and he can be judged on the success of program building.

The HC judges the OC, DC and position coaches and he sees their work every day. He is intimately familiar with the talent level of the program, the internal goals and expectations for the program, and the progress of every coach and position. It is very hard for the general public to judge a position coach, especially on the offensive line, because we don't get to see the players every day in practice. I couldn't begin to tell you whether we were starting the right players at the right position and whether any individual player progressed or regressed during the season. What I can tell you is that the o-line was the biggest weakness of the offense and rushing and sack statistics support that. I'm more than willing to trust Brewster that the OL coach needed to be replaced.

As far as the OC, as fans we have more visibility about the success or failure of him because we have more visibility of the overall success of the offense. However, we don't know the inner workings of what was going on so we don't know if Dunbar and Brewster clashed philosophically or whether Dunbar was failing to achieve internal expectations and if so, why.

As a fan, I'm willing to give Brewster his 4-5 year run as long as we see progress in the program. As the man at the top it up to him whether personnel decisions work out and how he chooses to adjust his staff.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with giving a retention bonus next year. Hopefully, it achieves the aim of keeping continuity within the program and retaining a talented coach. I've heard of this before but normally it is just a graduated scale that the buyout clause declines year-by-year for a HC (the team pays more for firing early, the coach pays more for leaving early). In my own career I've received signing bonuses that had to be paid back if I left before X date and this is just a more cash flow friendly way for the Athletic Dept. to structure the same thing. It makes a lot of sense to me and I applaud them for doing it. The fact that it is only one year and then his base moves to $350,000 implies the expectations are that he will stay around for at minimum two years.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I guess the question becomes then, how much time is a HC given before he is considered a success or failure and how much time is a coordinator or position coach given before he is considered a success or failure?

Just remember it may not always be just about success or failure. Obviously, the offense did not perform like it should have this past season. Dunbar certainly deserves some of the blame, but it was obvious we didn't have a lot of talent and/or experience at a lot of positions. I think Dunbar's departure has just as much to do with his unwillingness to change and adapt. If he was willing to change his offense and do some of the things Brewster wanted him to do, then he may still be our OC.

Brewster is the boss and if someone is not on the same page as him, they will be let go. That's just how it works. I've said this before, but if my boss tells me we need to change this or that, and I refuse, there's a good chance I get fired, even if I really feel I am right and he's wrong.

 

[GopherGod]

I disagree completely. Brew warrants more time because the program improved, he continually brings in better talent, and promotes the program. That is his job. Dunbar's job is to improve the offense. That did not happen. I still do not believe Dunbar was 'fired'. He wore out his welcome in Northwestern and Cal. He is unwilling to change his offensive philosophy. Brew wants to incorporate a power running aspect because there was not progress in the offense. You agree to this in your post. Dunbar seems unwilling to change his offensive sets and play calling, that is why he was fired/quit. I believe Dunbar and Brew came to an understanding that they were not going to agree on the direction the offense should go. They parted ways because of it. It happens. I believe Dunbar would still be here if he was willing to incorporate power running sets and work with coach Davis. He was not willing, so he is gone.

GG, when did I say none of this is Brews responsibility? Please do not puts words in my mouth. He brought in Dunbar and it didn't workout, that is on Brew. To his credit, he is willing to change and adapt to improve the Gopher program. He will do what it takes. Will he be successful? We'll see in the next couple of seasons. I believe things are going in the right direction though.

I never did say that you said Brew didn't bare any responsibility, I simply made a general statement of my opinion that he needs to bare some responsibility, so I did not put words into your mouth. I do believe that Dunbar was fired, how else do you explain us continuing to pay him. If Dunbar was unwilling to adapt his offense to Brewsters liking, brewster was his boss and therefore could require him to incorporate these sets or give play calling responsibilities to someone else, if Dunbar refuses then he could have been fired for insubordination and you don't have to pay out the contract. If we are continuing to pay Dunbar because he doesn't want to play nice in the sandbox with his boss then that is crazy, if we are paying him because he was fired because Brewster wanted to go in another direction and not for insubordination then I can understand why we are paying him as we are contractually obligated to do so.

 

[calminnfan]

Ah...Dunbar's spread is old news. Better teams knew how to defense it so in the second year, it was probably as good as it was going to get, though I will say a little more experienced OL would have helped. The problem with the OL is that when their weaknesses got exposed, they did not make adequate adjustments.

Though Fisch does not have OC on his resume, he does have good success at the verious levels he has coached at, and the players he has worked with have improved. OC is his next step in coaching accomplishment and it just happens to be at MN. Since he interviewed for the position at 2 other places (UCLA & Detriot-NFL), his abilities and the testimony of those who have worked with him seem to justify that he is ready for this next step.

Personally, I think Fisch and Davis will do some things that may well have the better BT and other schools scratching their heads. When they play Cal next year, I fully expect them to match up well and have a respectable chance of leaving the field with a win. The only thing I am concerned about is how well they will have implimented the new offense by that time.

(Okay, a little bit of the maroon colored glasses here)!