Sid: Vikings' Mike Zimmer, Gophers' P.J. Fleck face unlevel playing field because of NFL, Big Ten choices

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BleedGopher

BleedGopher

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per Sid:

It’s a much bigger deal for Fleck, who will not have a season this year while teams in the Big 12, SEC and ACC play.

And while Fleck and university leaders are more concerned with player safety and limiting crowds on campus, it’s unfair to the conferences choosing not to play when it comes to player development or recruiting.

Missing a season is going to put a lot of stress on Gophers players and coaches, who will have to invent a whole new approach to keep their players involved and developing this season, while teams in other conferences continue to play and go through game-week routines.

www.startribune.com

Vikings' Mike Zimmer, Gophers' P.J. Fleck face uneven playing field because of NFL, Big Ten choices

The Vikings and Gophers football coaches have similar, yet different tests in the COVID-19 era.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
per Sid:
It’s a much bigger deal for Fleck, who will not have a season this year while teams in the Big 12, SEC and ACC play.

And while Fleck and university leaders are more concerned with player safety and limiting crowds on campus, it’s unfair to the conferences choosing not to play when it comes to player development or recruiting.

Go Gophers!!
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It's definitely not fair to the players and coaches, but unfair to the conferences? For reals, Sid? If I'm not mistaken, I do believe all the conferences were working with the same information and had the same choices in front of them.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
It's definitely not fair to the players and coaches, but unfair to the conferences? For reals, Sid? If I'm not mistaken, I do believe all the conferences were working with the same information and had the same choices in front of them.
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All conferences are indeed working with the same information. However what you do with the information is another thing.
 

#2Gopher said:
All conferences are indeed working with the same information. However what you do with the information is another thing.
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IE, ignore it in order to continue profiting off black players who work for nothing.
 



That's one thing about racists and bigots.

They hate it when you call them racists and bigots, or bring that up. They hate. It.

It's a very interesting psychology at play. There's an extreme amount of shame, when confronted with their hideous nature, which then gets converted into rage.
 


MplsGopher said:
IE, ignore it in order to continue profiting off black players who work for nothing.
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Im not sure the motivation to play by the conferences listed has anything to do with taking advantage of certain groups of players, black, white, purple, green, brown.... They want to play to mitigate their financial losses. Those losses will impact everyone including said players, workers, vendors and the communities involved with the Saturday events not to mention the Universities. Any group or person that wants to say they are being taken advantage of should maybe do something else for a free education and a level of mentorship not available to them at home in many cases and a chance at winning the lottery by getting a contract in the NFL.
 

gopherjay said:
Im not sure the motivation to play by the conferences listed has anything to do with taking advantage of certain groups of players, black, white, purple, green, brown.... They want to play to mitigate their financial losses. Those losses will impact everyone including said players, workers, vendors and the communities involved with the Saturday events not to mention the Universities. Any group or person that wants to say they are being taken advantage of should maybe do something else for a free education and a level of mentorship not available to them at home in many cases and a chance at winning the lottery by getting a contract in the NFL.
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Bolded: so you're saying they want to take advantage of players who don't get paid, in order to profit?

We can agree to disagree. Your argument is that it's willful, mutually beneficial agreement. I understand the argument and it's fine. No need to further elaborate.
 



Hey MplsGopher - I didn’t bring up black players, you did. It’s a shame that you can’t accept the fact that white players are also involved. And perhaps even care more about the football season. But then Warren is black and that must make it ok in your shallow mind.
 

Yes, we know you want to pretend to ignore race and pretend you don’t see race. A convenient way for you to justify a lack of empathy and compassion for the suffering that blacks continue to face in this country.
 


gopheraschells said:
No college is forcing anyone to play. Point your blame at the NFL for not having a developmental league or drafting players out of high school.
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I can get onboard with this angle on it, as well. I agree, there should be more than zero possible avenues to get to the NFL outside of (major) college football.

But I definitely think that, at best colleges happily, passively accept the current “arrangement”, and at worst they’ve actively colluded with the NFL to prevent other possibilities.
 



MplsGopher said:
I can get onboard with this angle on it, as well. I agree, there should be more than zero possible avenues to get to the NFL outside of (major) college football.

But I definitely think that, at best colleges happily, passively accept the current “arrangement”, and at worst they’ve actively colluded with the NFL to prevent other possibilities.
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No debate there. They got carried away with the money and the extravagance. They need to get spending to where it was in the early-mid 90's. These exuberant coaching salaries and training centers need to go.
 

gopheraschells said:
No debate there. They got carried away with the money and the extravagance. They need to get spending to where it was in the early-mid 90's. These exuberant coaching salaries and training centers need to go.
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Well, I wonder ... would massive TV audiences and ticket sales still persist, if say the top 10% of high school talent opted for another avenue (some new pro “minor league”)?

On paper, I’d like think that it would. I’d like to think that the audiences, even the important casual viewers, care more about the names on the front than watching specific players.

But I’m also open to the idea that reality is just the opposite of that. Or maybe it’s a mixture.
 

At the D1 level, football players are - in one sense - volunteering to be exploited, in the hope that it will lead to a lucrative professional contract.

I am NOT saying that makes it fair. But any player in this day and age who accepts a D1 scholarship needs to understand what kind of a deal he's making. Reminds me of all the stories about young musicians signing record deals on the hood of a car, and later finding out it was a bad deal. (i.e. Springsteen winding up in court with Mike Appel for 3 years...)

if you just want to play football for the love of the game, and don't care about going pro, then play DII or DIII and get an education. D1 is a completely different animal - especially at the P5 level.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
At the D1 level, football players are - in one sense - volunteering to be exploited, in the hope that it will lead to a lucrative professional contract.

I am NOT saying that makes it fair. But any player in this day and age who accepts a D1 scholarship needs to understand what kind of a deal he's making. Reminds me of all the stories about young musicians signing record deals on the hood of a car, and later finding out it was a bad deal. (i.e. Springsteen winding up in court with Mike Appel for 3 years...)

if you just want to play football for the love of the game, and don't care about going pro, then play DII or DIII and get an education. D1 is a completely different animal - especially at the P5 level.
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This seems like a pretty one-sided argument here, SON? You don't think there are just as many, if not a LOT more student athletes that are exploiting the universities in order to get a free degree(s) from a world class educational institution? For a lot of people who want to get an education, the ONLY path is by exploiting the universities for free tuition and room and board, and I think that's fantastic. It's great for both of them.

Good grief, this seems like an incredibly cynical take on scholarship college athletics. Very, very few student athletes have any possibility of playing professional sports, I think it's on the order of less than 1%, particularly if you factor in all sports and not just football/basketball.

If you want to play football (or any sport) for the love of the game, as you said, and a major university with an impeccable educational reputation is willing to give you a free path to that end, HELL YES, you take it, right?

You could run down the current Gophers roster and pick out a couple dozen scholarship athletes that will likely never make a meaningful contribution; you think the 'U' handing them $100K+ in tuition left and right is a horrible and dreadful situation for those players and that they are being exploited?

We should all be so lucky I would think.
 

And our hyper partisan extremist who didn’t attend college chimes in.
 

MplsGopher said:
Bolded: so you're saying they want to take advantage of players who don't get paid, in order to profit?

We can agree to disagree. Your argument is that it's willful, mutually beneficial agreement. I understand the argument and it's fine. No need to further elaborate.
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You are correct, my argument is that it is a willful and mutually beneficial agreement. No one is forcing anyone to play, coach or watch the sport. If one feels they are being taken advantage of, don't get involved. It is so simple. Maybe some of these athletes should play pro tennis or golf where there is no paycheck unless you win. Maybe some should just go to school, play men's softball or rec sports starting with the JC and work while doing it and then transfer to a 4 year school while they work and get it all done in a decade like many of us did.
I know if I could perform like some of these kids and had a shot at a pro contract and get a degree for free, I would care less what my school or anyone else made monetarily. I would so take the chance as long as I got my degree for free.

Football will just move on and still be what it is today if "the taken advantage of" leave. MLB figured it out when their talent pool began to rapidly change.

Nowhere did I say anyone wants to take advantage of others.
 

Anything related to financial can easily be framed as taking advantage of them, since the school make a lot of revenue and provide a relatively small percentage of that as direct benefits to the players.

And just because some would play/work for less isn’t a legally valid reason to force all to work at that lower rate!💡
 

MplsGopher said:
Anything related to financial can easily be framed as taking advantage of them, since the school make a lot of revenue and provide a relatively small percentage of that as direct benefits to the players.

And just because some would play/work for less isn’t a legally valid reason to force all to work at that lower rate!💡
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There is no forced labor in college football and Capitalism is legal in this country. Not saying anything against monetary compensation or a better deal for players, coaches and workers who are a part of the whole deal. I do not have the answer for that or an opinion directly about that. Like I tell my wife every time she gets mad at CEO's getting fired and then a check for millions. Capitalism is not always fair but it is the best system.
 

gopherjay said:
There is no forced labor in college football and Capitalism is legal in this country. Not saying anything against monetary compensation or a better deal for players, coaches and workers who are a part of the whole deal. I do not have the answer for that or an opinion directly about that. Like I tell my wife every time she gets mad at CEO's getting fired and then a check for millions. Capitalism is not always fair but it is the best system.
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Saying “you can quit if you don’t like it” is not equivalent to not taking advantage of someone.

And doesn’t capitalism believe in a free market?? I would assume the market value for their labor is higher than the value of the direct benefits they’re being provided, given the relatively low percentage of the revenue they’re getting.
 

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