Shooter: Gophers AD weighing 'consequences' of Trevor Mbakwe decision

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BleedGopher

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Shooter Now: Minnesota Gophers AD weighing 'consequences' of Trevor Mbakwe decision

Gophers athletic director Joel Maturi said this morning that he's still evaluating whether to allow 6-foot-8, 240-pound power forward Trevor Mbakwe to play in University of Minnesota basketball games this season.

Mbakwe, a Miami-Dade junior-college transfer who is from St. Paul, was charged in April with a battery felony. Maturi said it's his understanding there is a trial date in December in Miami. Mbakwe has been allowed to practice with the Gophers.

"We keep trying to do as much research as we can, get as much information as we can, to make the right decision for the University of Minnesota," Maturi said.

Maturi said he plans to decide prior to the Gophers' first exhibition game Nov. 5 against Minnesota-Duluth at Williams Arena.

"There are a lot of consequences (of a decision)," Maturi said. "I'm concerned about Trevor himself, and I'm concerned about the program and we need to weigh (the impact) of all those kinds of options and the meaning of his playing immediately or not playing."

http://www.twincities.com/ci_13601051#

Go Gophers!!
 

innocent until proven guilty. What the hell gives here?
 


Consquences of letting him play:

Trevor is happy
Tubby is happy
The team is happy
The fans are happy
If proven innocent Maturi looks rational and level-headed
But...
A few holier then thous are unhappy
If convicted it gives a minor black eye to a program that doesn't need one and disrupts team chemistry midseason


Consequences of not letting him play:

Tubby is unhappy (this is significant)
Trevor is unhappy
The team is unhappy
The fans are unhappy
If found innocent Maturi looks like a giant tool who tried to ruin an innocent kids career
but...
If found guilty Maturi looks level-headed for playing it safe and protecting the integrity of the program.

I'd say it makes far more sense to let him play unless he knows something substantial that suggests Trevor is guilty of what he is accused of. A defense of mistaken identity is a lot more substantial then if he was trying to say 'it happened but was consentual' etc. In the later case, the player is still guilty of bad judgement and 'conduct detrimental to the team' even if later found innocent of a crime. If it's mistaken identity you're suspending him when he's done nothing wrong.
 

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal term....doesn't apply to student athlete conduct
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Assuming his conduct was improper. "Innocent until proven guilty is a legal term" on which our legal system is based.

I wonder if Joel is prepared for yet another lawsuit if Trevor is in fact deemed "not guilty".
 


Classic example of "damned if ya do, damned if ya don't".
 

BleedGopher said:
Shooter Now: Minnesota Gophers AD weighing 'consequences' of Trevor Mbakwe decision

Gophers athletic director Joel Maturi said this morning that he's still evaluating whether to allow 6-foot-8, 240-pound power forward Trevor Mbakwe to play in University of Minnesota basketball games this season.

Mbakwe, a Miami-Dade junior-college transfer who is from St. Paul, was charged in April with a battery felony. Maturi said it's his understanding there is a trial date in December in Miami. Mbakwe has been allowed to practice with the Gophers.

"We keep trying to do as much research as we can, get as much information as we can, to make the right decision for the University of Minnesota," Maturi said.

Maturi said he plans to decide prior to the Gophers' first exhibition game Nov. 5 against Minnesota-Duluth at Williams Arena.

"There are a lot of consequences (of a decision)," Maturi said. "I'm concerned about Trevor himself, and I'm concerned about the program and we need to weigh (the impact) of all those kinds of options and the meaning of his playing immediately or not playing."

http://www.twincities.com/ci_13601051#

Go Gophers!!
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This may sound subjective, but not allowing him to play would almost seem to have more negative consequences. If Maturi decides to kick him off the team, what is Trevor to do? He has the talent to someday make a living in the NBA, and not allowing a young man (who hasn't been charged with anything at this point) to play would just make things worse. Trevor would simply get lost in everything. Basketball is his escape, and taking that away from him could have serious irrefutable consequences on a young man's life.
 

BigGopherFan said:
This may sound subjective, but not allowing him to play would almost seem to have more negative consequences. If Maturi decides to kick him off the team, what is Trevor to do? He has the talent to someday make a living in the NBA, and not allowing a young man (who hasn't been charged with anything at this point) to play would just make things worse. Trevor would simply get lost in everything. Basketball is his escape, and taking that away from him could have serious irrefutable consequences on a young man's life.
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he was charged.
 

Charges

Actually, Tevor has been charged and is scheduled to go on trial in December. I agree with the analysis that suggests that unless Maturi has some strong not yet public knowledge of probable guilt, he ought to let Trevor play. I am surprised that I have not read (I haven't been looking, however) of people protesting Trevor's situation now. One would expect the "sanctimonious" to have protested his presence on the team at all, and I have not seen that.

If it were "charges" only that disqualified him, Maturi would have cut him loose before school started.
 




As of right now his court date is in December. It's unlikely he'll actually go to trial until the school year is over in May

Honestly, I think that Maturi would be negligent to not allow him to play. He's got multiple witnesses saying he was somewhere else that night, and eyewitness identifications are notoriously bad. Meanwhile, not allowing him to play would seriously endanger his future career as a basketball player. Trevor has the ability to play in the NBA, and even if he doesn't end up there, he can certainly make a good living in another foreign league. No reason to damage his future career over a case in which he will likely be declared not guilty.

And if he IS guilty, kick him off the team after the courts make that determination, not before.
 

What's the big deal? His trial will be over before the Big Ten season starts. He should be allowed to practice but kept out of games pending his trial. If he's innocent or charges are drops, he plays the meaningful games. If he's found guilty, he's off the team.

I know some of you think its unfair to Trevor, but he's facing FELONY CHARGES and obviously prosecutors don't think charge is frivolous. I hope he's innocent, but fair or not, he's been legally charged with a serious crime and the right thing to do is to keep him out of games until then. If he's found innocent, he still gets to play the important stretch of the season and if someone filed false charges against him, he might have grounds for a lawsuit.
 

<<As of right now his court date is in December. It's unlikely he'll actually go to trial until the school year is over in May>>

Hmmm, I was hoping the trial could be over in December and there is a pragmatic solution.

If not, this is an ethical dilemma, I'm glad I won't have to make.
 



CaliforniaGopher said:
What's the big deal? His trial will be over before the Big Ten season starts.
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Unlikely. His lawyer has already said they plan on requesting that the trial be moved back. I doubt it goes to court before the end of the school year. Moving the trial back as far as possible is generally the best legal strategy in a case like this anyway, and having school/the basketball season in Minnesota is a good reason to request it be moved back.
 

Why would the Defense Attorney want to move the trial back? It would seem he has had plenty of time to gather evidence.
 

There's also a consequence that hasn't been identified: if Maturi decides that Mbakwe needs to sit out the games until trial, that's an indication that the charges have some substance and merit. Not sure if that would influence a jury but I bet Mbakwe's attorney is figuring out how to suppress that decision if it happens and once at trial.

Frankly, and regardless of that consequence, I have trust in Maturi to make what he thinks is the best decision for the University of Minnesota. I suspect most of us are drawing conclusions from what we've read in the newspapers or elsewhere -- Maturi has that information plus I think he's probably got information that we're not privy to. (I'd think he's talked to Trevor first hand and may have had others get information from his defense attorney, the prosecutor, the investigating police officers, witnesses from both sides, etc.) But in the end, it's Maturi's decision to make and I'm sure it's not an easy decision one way or another.
 

howeda7 said:
I'd say it makes far more sense to let him play unless he knows something substantial that suggests Trevor is guilty of what he is accused of.
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Like skipping town after the assault occurred?
 

Plinnius said:
Like skipping town after the assault occurred?
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I was referring to knowing something substantial that is not already out in the public. You obviously have some axe to grind here as you keep bringing that up.

My point is that the current evidence suggests at least a reasonable chance that his defense of mistaken identity is legit. Given that, I'd let him play if I was in Maturi's spot, unless he knows something that is not public that suggests Trever is guilty of what what is accused of. In which case, he should/would have suspended him before school ever started. So I have to believe he's just waiting as long as possible to ensure nothing unexpected comes up. To wait until November and then not let him play with nothing having changed since August will only aggrivate Tubby and the rest of the team.

BTW, the fact that he came back to Minnesota is hardly evidence of anything one way or another. Sure, it could be a guilty person running away (though going back to your hometown hardly suggests you're trying to hide). It could also be a scared kid falsly accused of a crime going home to be with his family. Or, perhaps most likely it could be a kid in college who's classes are all online and who's sports season just ended going home for the year, i.e. a coincidence.
 

forestlaker said:
Why would the Defense Attorney want to move the trial back? It would seem he has had plenty of time to gather evidence.
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The public reason is that some of Mbakwe's witnesses as well as Mbakwe himself are playing basketball or enrolled in different schools. The attorney is requesting a postponement until May when witnesses would have completed the school year.

Another reality is that some defense attorneys think time is often a benefit to the defendant. Memories become hazier, attorneys can ask about other recollections (which may become hazier) and then question whether the memory of the prosecutor's witness(es) is selective, etc. Good prosecutors will be able to refute gamesmanship but I've never talked to a defense attorney who doesn't think (s)he is brighter than the other side.

(And, for the record, I'm married to a defense attorney. She also thinks she's brighter than the "other side" when we get to arguing at home, too. I just let her think that. I hope.)
 

I will come back to what I tend to always come back to on this.

The U of M athletic department has a policy in place in which any athlete who is charged with a felony is suspended from their team. Knowing the way that large organizations (such as the U of M) make decisions, there was clearly a significant amount of thought that went into this. There were probably meetings, conversations with coaches, etc.

The way I read this is that the people who put this policy together think that playing on a team is not a god-given right, it's an honor. And that Minnesota isn't a program where the pursuit of victories is going to trump all.

This is something that Maturi is going to have to consider if he allows Trevor to play. He is basically undermining one of the athletic department policies and saying, 'never mind, we want to win.' And then the next time a Gophers athlete (regardless of sport) is charged with a felony, he is going to have to deal with this again. Because if that person is a good player, that coach is going to want them to continue to play.

There's also the win at all costs issue involved here. If this is truly amateur athletics and it's pure and these are true student-athletes (none of which I believe to be the case), then I don't think Trevor would play. But there are tickets to sell and funds to raise for a practice facility and excitement to keep going. And Trevor playing can help all of that because the Gophers will be a better team.

All I know is that if Trevor was a marginal player, we wouldn't be having this discussion. But because he can help the team win, there is at least consideration toward taking a long-standing policy and saying, 'oh, nevermind.'
 

I think JM is waiting to see if the trial date is moved to a later date(May) or if any other information comes out. If the trial is in December it may be better for TM to practice when he can but not play in games. I'm sure his mind would be on more important things (trial).

If the trial is moved to May and no other 'damaging information' comes to light I would expect JM to let him play.

As Bud Grant once said, "Never make a decision until you have to".
 

"All I know is that if Trevor was a marginal player, we wouldn't be having this discussion. But because he can help the team win, there is at least consideration toward taking a long-standing policy and saying, 'oh, nevermind.'"

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on this entire situation. I don't envy Maturi's position. ... his 'nads are in a vice no matter what he decides.
 

I agree that its only an issue since Trevor should help the team this year, but I also hope that the University stands by its players. Yes being on a team is a right but they also try to sell the 'family' aspect. If a kid maintains his innocence, and the team believes him, I say stand by the kid and let him play. If he's in fact guilty, he'll pay the price but don't punish someone who may not have done anything wrong.
 

Is there any chance of an NCAA violation?

If not, I don't think the consequences will really add up to much. Let him play! Maturi's job will be safe as long as he acts in a timely fashion once a verdict is reached.

The other thing I have been wondering is, has the victim's family contacted Maturi? How would that conversation go?
 

Whatever the case, I hope Maturi is allowed to make the decision based on his own thoughts. Too often in cases like this, other faculty or 'higher ups' go through the president to try to force the AD's hand. This a decision that should be left to Maturi and him alone.
 

howeda7 said:
Whatever the case, I hope Maturi is allowed to make the decision based on his own thoughts. Too often in cases like this, other faculty or 'higher ups' go through the president to try to force the AD's hand. This a decision that should be left to Maturi and him alone.
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YES!!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:
 

howeda7 said:
You obviously have some axe to grind here as you keep bringing that up.
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I bring it up because Gophers fans seem sold on his innocence despite what appears to be a very compelling case of consciousness of guilt.

It could also be a scared kid falsly accused of a crime going home to be with his family.
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By whom? How would he have known? The police weren't able to speak to him.

Or, perhaps most likely it could be a kid in college who's classes are all online and who's sports season just ended going home for the year, i.e. a coincidence.
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Mbakwe's season ended a month before the assault occurred, so even that timing would be somewhat peculiar, but such a coincidence seems like the only plausible explanation. But what if you found out that he didn't have any online classes?
 

Plinnius said:
I bring it up because Gophers fans seem sold on his innocence despite what appears to be a very compelling case of consciousness of guilt.



By whom? How would he have known? The police weren't able to speak to him.



Mbakwe's season ended a month before the assault occurred, so even that timing would be somewhat peculiar, but such a coincidence seems like the only plausible explanation. But what if you found out that he didn't have any online classes?
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I'm not convinced of anything either way. I find the fact that he was picked out a team photo to not be the most convincing witness ID I've ever heard though. There were also reports of similar attacks happening after Trevor came back to Minnesota.

Certainly, his leaving could be a sign of guilt. But it's equally likely to have been a coincidence. When did he buy his plane ticket? The day after the alleged assault? That would look pretty bad. A week before? Then you're wrong. That's an example of something Maturi might know that is not public information.
 

I said, earlier in this thread..."...damned if ya do, damned if ya don't." And Selection Sunday said...".....(Maturi's)...nads are in a vice." It should be totally up to Joel Maturi, after all is said and done, to make the decision. The ramifications of the wrong decision will be lingering for a long, long time. I do not know what the right or wrong decision is, but I do NOT get the big bucks JM gets.
 

anonymous said..."And that Minnesota isn't a program where the pursuit of victories is going to trump all."
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No never.
 

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