Shama: U Not Topping Dome Football Crowds

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BleedGopher

BleedGopher

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per Shama:

Despite the momentum of winning three consecutive Big Ten games for the first time since 2008, there was a reminder this week TCF Bank Stadium hasn’t been a cure-all for Gophers football attendance. The University of Minnesota athletic department has been airing radio commercials titled “Bring the Heat” to entice Minnesotans to buy tickets for tomorrow’s outdoor football game when the 7-2 Gophers play 5-3 Penn State in a November Big Ten game.

If enough ticket buyers respond and decide to watch the “hot” Gophers on a chilly day (temps predicted in the low 40s at kickoff) the athletic department will have its second sell out of the season. The Gophers have played five home games so far this season, including a historic upset of Nebraska, but sold out only the Iowa game when record TCF Bank Stadium attendance of 51,382 was announced. As of yesterday morning, an athletic department spokesman said 47,000 tickets had “been distributed” for Saturday’s game.

The $288.5 million TCF Bank Stadium, with official capacity of 50,805, opened in 2009 and that season every game sold out. The season averages since have been 49,513, 47,714 and 46,637. This year the average is 46,673, with home games yet to be played tomorrow and November 16 against Wisconsin.

In the last four seasons in the Metrodome the Gophers averaged 50,494 fans. The four-year average from 2009-2012 at the Bank is 48,667.

Winning and losing was comparable during the 2005-2008 and 2009-2012 periods. The final four years in the dome saw the Gophers win 10 conference games and lose 22. From 2009-2012 the league record was 9-23.

With a capacity of 64,172 at the dome, large crowds for some games (think ticket buying Iowans and Wisconsinites) did inflate season averages more than is possible at the Bank. But it’s hard to support the position that the new on-campus stadium created a ticket buying boom among consumers.

During the last two years the Gophers have sold out only two home games. Even when the weather is mild many of the best seats in the stadium are unoccupied. A University policy to guarantee 10,000 seats for students has been a flop, with less than half that many showing up for games and filling a portion of seats in the student section of the stadium.

http://shamasportsheadliners.com/

Go Gophers!!
 

I could be wrong, but I'm assuming ticket prices are a lot more now than in the dome?
 

GophersInIowa said:
I could be wrong, but I'm assuming ticket prices are a lot more now than in the dome?
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No bleep. We had four tickets downstairs at the Dome, and for the last 3/4 seasons 6 upstairs in the End Zone. Those seats on the second deck cost us less than $1000. They also had many $10 games and the 'Family Pack" which was 4-tickets, 4-hot dogs and 4-drinks for $39.95.

For nearly all the Non-Conference and she of the Big Ten games they were having to pedal from 15 to 30,000 tickets a game. Trying to get 6 to 8,000 in there must be lot easier.
 

The fact that the program took a dive in performance during the first years of the stadium don't help.
 

If the Gophers hadn't gotten the new stadium, we'd be tenants at the Vikings new stadium for decades to come.
 


Sportswriters don't get it, attendance will always lag success ,after a long period of mediocrity, next year will be a better measuring stick.
 

It is anything but an apples to apples comparison. How many 11:00 AM games in each place? The stadium was built to the perfect size for what the team could draw since it moved to the dome and it seems to have worked out well in that regard. He does mention the fact the dome had a larger capacity and much of the average was inflated due to Wisconsin/Iowa crowds. They loved to party in the Twin Cities and play in a rare warm late season game. Would the article have been as interesting if it had compared percentage of capacity for the first four years in TCF and the last four years in the dome?

All that being said, there are two things that I wouldn't have figured on in early 2009. The team falling to the depths it did shortly after moving, and the student section falling down as much as it has despite being on campus. I figured it would at least maintain the numbers from the dome, if not improve.
 

The last years at the Dome got a bump because people wanted to guarantee seats at the new stadium. You really can't compare the two. What was the average of the dome during Mason's whole tenure?
 

MaxyJR1 said:
The last years at the Dome got a bump because people wanted to guarantee seats at the new stadium. You really can't compare the two. What was the average of the dome during Mason's whole tenure?
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Good point. Forgot to mention that one, and I'm sure other apples/oranges stuff too. Why not pick a four year span in the mid 90's, or whenever? Comparing it in a stadium that is 5/6th sized is also misleading, which is why a comparison of % of capacity would also factor in.

But, before I get too defensive... in the end, I did expect attendance in TCF Bank Stadium to be better than what it has been. No doubt.
 



New stadiums typically boost attendance for their first season if the team is not a consistent winner or the fan base isn't committed no matter what.

People will flock to games in a new stadium in the first year because they want to see the new building. Articles like these are a little pointless. At this point, committed fans are regularly buying and attending games. Growth opportunities will only exist if the team turns the corner and becomes a consistent winner. Then it is up to the U to take advantage of those opportunities and gain some new fans.
 

Another talking point is the fact that Shama uses 2008-09 (the bottom of the barrel years) as the breaking point. Our best season in the last 15 years was 2003 when we won 10 games. The records and teams have declined since then until the hiring of Coach Kill when it starts to get better again. Attendance is always going to be a year or two behind the success of the team. Bandwagon riders can't predict the future and hop on early (then they wouldn't be bandwagon fans). Brewster getting fired is the low point in our success (or lack there of I should say). As Jerry continues to build and the team continues to win, attendance will naturally increase. The next few years will be crucial to prove that this success isn't a fluke and the fans will be there. Obviously ticket prices and the other things discussed above are factors as well but either way the comparison made skewed statistics quite well.
 

BleedGopher said:
per Shama:

Even when the weather is mild many of the best seats in the stadium are unoccupied.
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Lots of preferred and premium seats remain unsold. The outdoor club seats will be half-empty tomorrow.
 

Real nice that Shama does not even know when the Wisconsin game will be played.
 



Hound Dogs said:
Another talking point is the fact that Shama uses 2008-09 (the bottom of the barrel years) as the breaking point. Our best season in the last 15 years was 2003 when we won 10 games. The records and teams have declined since then until the hiring of Coach Kill when it starts to get better again. Attendance is always going to be a year or two behind the success of the team. Bandwagon riders can't predict the future and hop on early (then they wouldn't be bandwagon fans). Brewster getting fired is the low point in our success (or lack there of I should say). As Jerry continues to build and the team continues to win, attendance will naturally increase. The next few years will be crucial to prove that this success isn't a fluke and the fans will be there. Obviously ticket prices and the other things discussed above are factors as well but either way the comparison made skewed statistics quite well.
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Goods points in there. Looks like they are doing okay at TCF.

Here's the 2003 Home Attendances with some heavily papered houses. Take out the Iowa and WI games and everyone of these crowds would fit into TCF.

Tulsa - 36,623
Troy State - 31,391
La-Lafayette - 34,929
Michigan :cry: - 62,374
MSU - 38,778
Indiana - 45,398
Wisconsin - 59,543

and 2004 after the best season in decades:

Toledo - 45,144
Ill State - 34,006
NW - 44,657
Penn State - 50,386
Illini - 46,526
Iowa - 64,719
 

I sat through many, many games in the dome with only 20K to 30K fans there. It has never been that bad at TCF
 

How about 2007,when they went 1-11, and people were starting to scramble for their spots in TCF, but still had a season to go? Also heavily papered numbers, at least for the Non-Conference season.

Bowling Green - 49,253
Miami OH - 45,383
Purdue - 47,483
Ohio State - 51,611
NDSU :mad: - 63,008
Illini -46,604
WI - 59,116

All but three could be handled at TCF and tOSU could have been taken care of by SRO.
 

It's so tough to accurately judge Gopher Football attendance, at the Dome and at the Bank, because it always seems like there's a lot of fishy stuff happening with the crowd count in one way or the other. We've heard of them using turnstile counts, tickets sold, tickets distributed (which isn't quite the same thing), and bodies in the building. To illustrate the last point, there were some Iowa and Wisconsin games at the Dome with crowd counts that went beyond the actual number of seats because the U of M would apparently count things like stadium workers and ushers in the total. I also believe that in the Dome days, and perhaps still now to a lesser extent, some sponsors were required to buy large numbers of tickets to goose the crowd total. There were some games at the Dome, even in the relative prosperity of the Mason years, at which the attendance would be announced and have no connection at all to reality, not even on the premise that not all ticketholders chose to attend the game.
 

TCF Bank Stadium is soooo darn much better than the Metrodome in terms of atmosphere and looks - it feels like a college football stadium should. Winning brings the sellouts, but there is a lag time. The attendance figures only tell a small part of the story. Some concrete thinkers are always going to criticize stadiums (not big enough, cost too much, we can get by with the old one, we built it so they should come, blah, blah, blah, etc). The absurd thing is, many of those people don't attend games. TCF Bank is a great facility.
 

diefirma said:
I sat through many, many games in the dome with only 20K to 30K fans there. It has never been that bad at TCF
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No kidding and also remember a few people on the board screaming "we don't WANT more" fans anyway. :clap:
 

Firstly, of course everything here said is true, apples to oranges, opposing fans in the dome inflating things, etc.

However, I do think the fanbase is transitioning in a way now that will only get better.
Outdoor football is still very new for a sizable population in this state, and those who remember outdoor football from the predome years are less likely to enjoy sitting in cold weather or even rain, or even sun for that matter.
The Vikings playing outdoors the next few years will help this, as will continued success by the Gophers.
I'm still praying for the first "blizzard" game at TCF bank, maybe our string of luck will continue and it happens for the wisky game. I remember watching the 2010 Illinois game while 2 feet of heavy snow fell in Nov, it's gonna happen sometime.
 

As people have pointed out, when comparing averages, you have to top the Metrdome attendance at 51,000.

Knock down the Iowa, Wisconsin, & NDSU attendances down between 8,000 & 12,000 the calculate the average.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

none of what Shama compares TCF to the Dome matters.

BleedGopher said:
per Shama: Shama whole premise about ticket sales is a straw man argument. What would be fair is comparing revenue and revenue streams at the Metrodome to TCF. Even with increased game day operations and cost the Gophers make more revenue at TCF.

Despite the momentum of winning three consecutive Big Ten games for the first time since 2008, there was a reminder this week TCF Bank Stadium hasn’t been a cure-all for Gophers football attendance. The University of Minnesota athletic department has been airing radio commercials titled “Bring the Heat” to entice Minnesotans to buy tickets for tomorrow’s outdoor football game when the 7-2 Gophers play 5-3 Penn State in a November Big Ten game.

The U did not gain any parking revenue from the Metrodome. The U only got 32% of there concession revenue at the Metrodome, a large percentage of the concessions went to the Vikings and Twins as a tennant. The U got zero revenue from suite sales at the Metrodome, all of that revenue went to the Vikings and Mike Lynn. There was ticket tax that was part of the rent for the Gophers playing there as a tennant.
This tennant deal and the reason the Vikings and Gophers shared stadium never worked out is because Red McCombs demanded Suite revenue and parking revenue from Gopher games along with a cut of our concession sales like the Metrodome deal. Good thing the University and the President told McCombs to shove off.

Our players have our own locker room, lounge and recruiting room as does the band and cheer staff have there own facillities to use. Ticket revenue and sales are meaningless when you compare all of the other revenue streams the Universtiy now gets from having home football games on Campus. In the Metrodome the Gophers were a lowly tennant who were the third wheel that had there games moved because of MLB playoff games. In TCF the Gophers football team has a Home and campus is connected by a great facillity that is our own place as Alumni and fans. Norwood Teague needs to know this, do not let the Vikings WRECK our stadium by papering it with Purlple
and changing the Field to that disgusting paint scheme they want. They the Vikings are a tennant not the Gophers this time around TCF is the Gophers house and we do not have to bend over backwards to make them money. This time the Gophers are in the driver seat, they need our facillity more than we need them.

I don't care if ticket sales lag the Dome where the average butts in the seats was always paperd by comp tickets and visting fans. Even with as many Nebraska fans as there was they did not take over the place. Wisconsin and Iowa fans do not get 25,000 to 30,000 tickets like they did in the Metrodome. There is no comparison, TCF is the start of the foundation of the University retaking back there PEDIGREE and herritage as a winning football program. TCF is home to Gopher fans. Coach Mason understood this, AD Joel Maturi understood this, as did President Emeritus Robert Bruininks, they all got the fact that college football is special and is it's own attraction and belongs on campus. Without there leadership we would be stuck in a shared facillity.

The DOME was never home, not as a student and now not as just a Gopher fan.
TCF will forever keep out more Badger fans and Iowa fans, and for that I will forever be thankfull. At least we do not have to feel like a visitor in our own place from now on. Never again will we be a visitor as a Gopher football fan on our campus. Generations to come will reap the rewards of TCF that a lot of us pushed for. The bank belogns to the U.
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Ole said:
Firstly, of course everything here said is true, apples to oranges, opposing fans in the dome inflating things, etc.

However, I do think the fanbase is transitioning in a way now that will only get better.
Outdoor football is still very new for a sizable population in this state, and those who remember outdoor football from the predome years are less likely to enjoy sitting in cold weather or even rain, or even sun for that matter.
The Vikings playing outdoors the next few years will help this, as will continued success by the Gophers.
I'm still praying for the first "blizzard" game at TCF bank, maybe our string of luck will continue and it happens for the wisky game. I remember watching the 2010 Illinois game while 2 feet of heavy snow fell in Nov, it's gonna happen sometime.
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I can't wait for the first blizzard game. We have had plenty of freezing rain, brisk wind, just damn cold games and those are my fav's. Dress warm, catch a buzz, and nobody biatches when you stand the whole time jumpin' around! An 8-2 Gophers vs. 8-2 wisconsuck during a blizzard would be Big Ten epic!
 

Are they unsold or do the ticket holders also have access to luxury suites, or other inclosed areas to view the game?
GopherVotary said:
Lots of preferred and premium seats remain unsold. The outdoor club seats will be half-empty tomorrow.
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McGopherFan said:
Are they unsold or do the ticket holders also have access to luxury suites, or other inclosed areas to view the game?
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They are unsold. Lots of outdoor club seats, indoor club seats, and suites are available on a single game basis. The only premium seats that are sold out to season ticket holders are the loge boxes. I purchased a couple of outdoor club seats to the Wisconsin game a few weeks ago and was told I could practically name my seats, as they have hundreds in inventory.
 

GopherVotary said:
They are unsold. Lots of outdoor club seats, indoor club seats, and suites are available on a single game basis. The only premium seats that are sold out to season ticket holders are the loge boxes. I purchased a couple of outdoor club seats to the Wisconsin game a few weeks ago and was told I could practically name my seats, as they have hundreds in inventory.
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You bought Wisconsin tickets? Stunning. :cool:
 

GopherVotary said:
They are unsold. Lots of outdoor club seats, indoor club seats, and suites are available on a single game basis. The only premium seats that are sold out to season ticket holders are the loge boxes. I purchased a couple of outdoor club seats to the Wisconsin game a few weeks ago and was told I could practically name my seats, as they have hundreds in inventory.
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Not anymore...the outdoor club seats for WI are sold out. Still some left for todays game against PSU. The good news is at least we are making those sucks from Cheeseland buy $150 seats and $30 seats.
 

The price is a big factor.. I used to bring kids and friends kids but can't afford that anymore sorry. When I could get a hot dog and drink in a package deal... I went twice this year just with a cousin.. I wish they would turn the upper deck above student before the season starts to 15 dollar seats
 

Yeah if you are not selling out a smaller stadium in only its 3-4 year, I think you have to rethink your pricing.
 

Lots of Dome games in the late 90's and early 2000's had cheap seats. I save ticket stubs, and have numerous ones in the nosebleeds with face values of $2, $3 and $5....This might have something to do with inflated dome attendance (no pun intended).....I remember a game against Ball State where my brother received a giant stack of $5 tickets that his company had purchased and no one used. He sold them right outside Huberts for one dollar each.
 

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