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Still too young and too poor of a o-line. We have the guys, just be patient.
 

Wait

wasn't this supposed to be the lose little year?

Maybe I'm confused. KU started two RS freshman at tackles. Reissing had all day long to pass, no pressure. The youth on O-line excuse is overused to cover poor coaching.

I think we do have the players, the question remains -- do we have the coaches?

I do have to tell you, I smelled contract extension in Tempe tonight, assuming it smells like a hog feed lot.

Outcoached completely.
 

caliGopher said:
KU started two RS freshman at tackles. QUOTE]

Yes and they started three seniors on the interior that had 100 starts between them and started the last 25 games together.

And a RS FR 4* is a hell of big difference from the RS 2* or the true FR 3* that we started this year with the two sophomores and a junior and the other So and the other Ju and the other RS FR.

We had 9 different starting O-Lines in 13 games and lost at least one starting O-Lineman during a game for at least a quarter on more than 5 occassions.

Basically, we started games or halves with something like 14 different combinations this year.

You can't win with all seniors with that lack of continuety, much less win with babies that were middle of the road to begin with.

Brewster needs at least 3 years of O-line recruiting and another for development before we will know whether the guy can coach and whether this offense is any good.

2011 is a make or break year for us...next year is still going to be tough, but I believe we will be better.
Click to expand...
 

Then why didn't we have any linemen in last years class?
 



Good talent usually beats mediocre talent (Gophers).

What I saw in the Insight Bowl was the more talented team kicking the ass of the less talented team, plain and simple.

What should really be obvious is just how "low" the talent level had sunk to, on the team Tim Brewster inherited from that grinning....you know who?

By the way, D-1 athletic directors haven't exactly worn a path getting to Glen Mason's front door to offer him his next head coaching job, have they?

By 2010 Brewster's team should be able to at least compete with a team like Kansas and the better Big Ten teams. I think he'll get it done but it takes time.
 

From Wahoo:

By the way, D-1 athletic directors haven't exactly worn a path getting to Glen Mason's front door to offer him his next head coaching job, have they?

Amen to that, Wahoo. To me and my limited infinite wisdom, Mason left the cupboard pretty bare for the new regime.
 

Dr.Don said:
From Wahoo:

By the way, D-1 athletic directors haven't exactly worn a path getting to Glen Mason's front door to offer him his next head coaching job, have they?

Amen to that, Wahoo. To me and my limited infinite wisdom, Mason left the cupboard pretty bare for the new regime.
Click to expand...


Who are the best players on the team right now?

Decker, Weber, WVD, Bennett (even though he's hurt)....who recruited them?

Without Mason's leftovers, this program would be even more abysmal.
 

Art Vandelay said:
Who are the best players on the team right now?

Decker, Weber, WVD, Bennett (even though he's hurt)....who recruited them?

Without Mason's leftovers, this program would be even more abysmal.
Click to expand...

So Art, who inherited better players Mason or Brewster?
 



Wahoo McDaniel said:
Good talent usually beats mediocre talent (Gophers).

What I saw in the Insight Bowl was the more talented team kicking the ass of the less talented team, plain and simple.

What should really be obvious is just how "low" the talent level had sunk to, on the team Tim Brewster inherited from that grinning....you know who?

By the way, D-1 athletic directors haven't exactly worn a path getting to Glen Mason's front door to offer him his next head coaching job, have they?

By 2010 Brewster's team should be able to at least compete with a team like Kansas and the better Big Ten teams. I think he'll get it done but it takes time.
Click to expand...

By the way, coaches weren't exactly wearing a path to Brewster's front door to promote him to even a coordinator position in his 17 years as a position coach. How do you not get promoted to a coordinator position even once in that period of time.
 

Ummm, What?

Wahoo McDaniel said:
By the way, D-1 athletic directors haven't exactly worn a path getting to Glen Mason's front door to offer him his next head coaching job, have they?
Click to expand...

Right, and that has exactly what to do with the fact that Brewster can't coach? I'm not seeing the correlation between Brewster's inability and the fact that no one wants to hire Mason.

Mason was fired, for good reasons I really can't figure out why some on the board insist that the only conversation is Mason vs. Brewster. They have one thing in common. Neither should be our head coach right now.

Beyond that, let it go. Mason was fired. For a good reason. There are 118 other Head Coaches out there just in D1 alone. Throw in Coordinators, and D1-AA coaches and the pool of people to select from other than Brewster is pretty considerable. And just think, the vast majority of them have more experience right now than Brewster leading a team.

But damn, he sounds good. Looks confused and coaches like crap, but man we get a lot of good quotes.

Get your chili hot, and your football bad.

We gave up 97 points in the last two games folks. 97 points. We have been outscored 97-21 in the final two games of the season. After two full "brewster" seasons, we have not progressed one iota. The slight gains on D have been offset by backsliding on Offense.

For all of you that insist on comparing the records of the past two years to "show" progress, how many of you were defending the team after last year and pointing to the many close losses and saying we're not that bad? You were right, we weren't. We were one quality DC and a HC with a clue from 5 wins last year, even with all the talent issues we had.

A two win improvement isn't all that great given the increased "talent" on the team this year and TWO years in the system.
 

caliGopher said:
Right, and that has exactly what to do with the fact that Brewster can't coach? I'm not seeing the correlation between Brewster's inability and the fact that no one wants to hire Mason.

Mason was fired, for good reasons I really can't figure out why some on the board insist that the only conversation is Mason vs. Brewster. They have one thing in common. Neither should be our head coach right now.

Beyond that, let it go. Mason was fired. For a good reason. There are 118 other Head Coaches out there just in D1 alone. Throw in Coordinators, and D1-AA coaches and the pool of people to select from other than Brewster is pretty considerable. And just think, the vast majority of them have more experience right now than Brewster leading a team.

But damn, he sounds good. Looks confused and coaches like crap, but man we get a lot of good quotes.

Get your chili hot, and your football bad.

We gave up 91 points in the last two games folks. 91 points. We have been outscored 91-21 in the final two games of the season. After two full "brewster" seasons, we have not progressed one iota. The slight gains on D have been offset by backsliding on Offense.

For all of you that insist on comparing the records of the past two years to "show" progress, how many of you were defending the team after last year and pointing to the many close losses and saying we're not that bad? You were right, we weren't. We were one quality DC and a HC with a clue from 5 wins last year, even with all the talent issues we had.

A two win improvement isn't all that great given the increased "talent" on the team this year and TWO years in the system.
Click to expand...

CaliGopher, you hit the nail on the head that is for sure. I agree with on the fact that he is a great PR guy if you like corny quotes but once you look through that you see that there is not really much substance there it appears in regards to coaching ability. Is it a coincidence that Brewster was once a car salesman because that is what he still sounds like a lot of the time to me. That ability to sell works well in recruiting but has little to do with on the field coaching and may be a reason why he was a career position coach prior to Minnesota taking a huge leap and giving him a head coaching job. I just think you have to wonder and it is fair for questions to be asked about his coaching ability when he was a position coach for 17 years and never promoted to a coordinator in that entire time.
 

Art Vandelay said:
Who are the best players on the team right now?

Decker, Weber, WVD, Bennett (even though he's hurt)....who recruited them?

Without Mason's leftovers, this program would be even more abysmal.
Click to expand...

Wow, the best 4 players in the program are not freshman. To say that the program would be more abysmal if all we had is freshman (the same statement in different words) is a ridiculously stupid statement. I know you like to be negative and sarcastic but you can usually be more thoughtful than this. It is still the first week of January but I'm going to keep track of this because it is the dumbest thing said on this board in 2009 and may win the award at the end of the year.

Just because the best current players are not from the 2008 recruiting class does not mean the predecessor did a good job of recruiting.
 



Brewster was hired by Maturi because he can recruit. He promised to hire the best coaching staff in the United States. What he hired were more recruiters. That was his focus. Result 1-11 in 2007.

He "fired" his Defensive Coordinator after last year, because his team had the worst defense in all of college football. This year he fired his Offensive Line coach because he had one of the worst OL in the Big Ten. OL is traditionally a strong point of Gopher football.

There were even rumblings that he wanted to let Dunbar go because the Offense regressed.

He is apparently changing his focus from hiring recruiters to hiring coaches.

I am convinced that the reason Brewster was never elevated to HC, DC or HC was because those working with him saw him for what he is, a good talker and a great salesman with little coaching acumen. He is a good man to have on your staff but not someone you would give the keys to.

Let's hope Brewster continues to hire "coaches" and even more lets hope he starts to listen to and learn from them.
 

Art Vandelay said:
Who are the best players on the team right now?

Decker, Weber, WVD, Bennett (even though he's hurt)....who recruited them?

Without Mason's leftovers, this program would be even more abysmal.
Click to expand...

It isn't that those guys aren't good - it is that there are so darn few of them!!! Even Mase would have been hurtin with no more than that.
 

Brewster has some time

He is learning as he goes. I don't have a problem with it. When a raw HC was hired, it was fairly obvious that there would be some bumps in the road. As Brewster is adding to the talent on the team, he is also going to get experience as a head coach. He added an experienced HC to his staff (Roof) and I guarantee he listens to his staff. Hiring Brewster was risky, but there is a possibility that the risk will payoff with rewards down the road. We don't know, but at least give him some time. As of today, we are no worse off than we were two years ago. We just lost the Insight Bowl to a Big 12 team. Hiring Brewster has not sent the program off the cliff. Have a little bit of patience.
 

Two years and people are already willing to throw Brewster overboard. I know it is an overused cliche, but Rome was not built in a day. When Brewster was hired we had VERY LITTLE talent. You need to give him more time. Look at Mack Brown's record for his first TWO years as head coach - 1- 10. If you guys were running the program at UNC during this time you would have been calling for the firing of Mack Brown. Not a smart move. It takes time to build a program, be patient.
 

GO4INLALALAND said:
Two years and people are already willing to throw Brewster overboard. I know it is an overused cliche, but Rome was not built in a day. When Brewster was hired we had VERY LITTLE talent. You need to give him more time. Look at Mack Brown's record for his first TWO years as head coach - 1- 10. If you guys were running the program at UNC during this time you would have been calling for the firing of Mack Brown. Not a smart move. It takes time to build a program, be patient.
Click to expand...

The difference between Brewster and Mack Brown however is that he had worked his way up and had success as a coordinator at several stops in addition to being a head coach previously at a smaller well known program Tulane before getting the UNC job. I can also tell you as someone who lived in South Texas during the Vince Young era and went to more than my share of Longhorn games that there are a lot of Texans who do not consider Mack Brown to be a coach who will out coach many of the other coaches in the Big 12.
 

It is simple - they are a bad football team seems to be getting worse

they showed signs of improvement and then gave it all back - other teams seem to have figured them out on both sides of the ball - Weber does not seem to be the right guy - too difficult to tell though but he did not look good to me in that game - especially in the second half. The reality is we will have to wait and see if Brew can get it figured out - I have concerns but bottom line is I will be at TCF next year to see - I am a sceptic at the moment however
 

rugger14 said:
He is learning as he goes. I don't have a problem with it. When a raw HC was hired, it was fairly obvious that there would be some bumps in the road. As Brewster is adding to the talent on the team, he is also going to get experience as a head coach. He added an experienced HC to his staff (Roof) and I guarantee he listens to his staff. Hiring Brewster was risky, but there is a possibility that the risk will payoff with rewards down the road. We don't know, but at least give him some time. As of today, we are no worse off than we were two years ago. We just lost the Insight Bowl to a Big 12 team. Hiring Brewster has not sent the program off the cliff. Have a little bit of patience.
Click to expand...

The fact that Brewster was aware enough to realize that he needs an experienced staff to learn from was really refreshing when he was hired. He realized the best way to compensate is to hire coordinators who could do the play calling.

Part of the problem in the bowl game was that we kept pushing the run game and not passing. It seemed like the same as a few years ago, 3 runs and punt. The run game and pass protection did look WAY better under Davis, which was a welcome change. But the benefit of a good running game opening up the passing game and better pass protection was never taken advantage of until the 4th quarter when it was too late to matter and Kansas was able to control the clock the entire game. This run first attitude was very different than Dunbar's pass first attitude we have had all year. This makes me think that Brewster decided that he has enough offensive experience now to pull rank over Dunbar's years of play calling strategy.

Brewster has shown that he has learned a lot over the last two years and hopefully this was an indicator to him that he still needs to lean on and work with his coaching staff to be successful, instead of dictating strategy to them. I think he'll learn from the bowl game and continue to improve the team and himself though getting us to the level we want eventually. Worst case is that Brewster continues to get great recruits and in a few years we end up with a new coach and a bunch of experienced players who really athletically gifted in contrast to past players.
 

Entry Level Position

DCGopher said:
Brewster has shown that he has learned a lot over the last two years and hopefully this was an indicator to him that he still needs to lean on and work with his coaching staff to be successful, instead of dictating strategy to them. I think he'll learn from the bowl game and continue to improve the team and himself though getting us to the level we want eventually.
Click to expand...

Great.

File under qualifications for coaching at the University of Minnesota: No experience necessary. We're looking not for a leader, but someone to learn on the job. Hopefully, the candidate will figure it out, then want to stay if/after they do.

We will not be taking football seriously as a school unless and until we start hiring and keeping top quality coaches, not hoping to find a "diamond in the rough".
 

caliGopher said:
Great.

File under qualifications for coaching at the University of Minnesota: No experience necessary. We're looking not for a leader, but someone to learn on the job. Hopefully, the candidate will figure it out, then want to stay if/after they do.

We will not be taking football seriously as a school unless and until we start hiring and keeping top quality coaches, not hoping to find a "diamond in the rough".
Click to expand...

Ah yes, Barry Alvarez was a huge name before Wisconsin, Urban Meyer before he was at Utah, Kirk Ferentz before he was at Iowa, Joe Paterno before he was at Penn State; wasn't Nick Saban relatively unknown before Michigan State? I mean seriously, you take chances on guys because it's difficult to get the top names to come coach your school unless you are an elite program. Maybe back in the day we could have had Paul Bryant, etc., but not since about 1970 have we had a chance at the top guys. Thus, we take some chances. Just because we got lucky in basketball with Tubby doesn't mean we'd have any such luck in football.

Brew's doing a fine job so far. I don't see where the sudden animosity comes from. He's doing as well or better than Mason did, starting with similar talent, and has a couple of top-30 classes to build off of for a push at big years in the near future. Just because we lost out on two big recruits today that actually probably considered us as their second choice doesn't mean the sky is falling. This year's class is arguably as good or better as last year's, our team is back to low-tier bowls -- without many contributors from any of Brewster's recruiting classes -- a new stadium is being built on campus and the program is buzzing. Why the negativity?
 

Brew has a new stadium and Big 10 playing time to sell. This sure is shaping up to be one mediocre recruiting class for a coach billed as a "recruiter".
 

Darby11 said:
Brew has a new stadium and Big 10 playing time to sell. This sure is shaping up to be one mediocre recruiting class for a coach billed as a "recruiter".
Click to expand...

He doesn't really have playing time to offer now.
 

Darby11 said:
Brew has a new stadium and Big 10 playing time to sell. This sure is shaping up to be one mediocre recruiting class for a coach billed as a "recruiter".
Click to expand...

Mediocre recruiting class? Try to get over your moping about losing out on a couple of players. These 2 top-thirty classes would be all-stars compared to Mase's recruiting. Mason used to take Ohio State's rejects out of Columbus and call it a coup, then add a couple of gems out of North or South Dakota. Granted, he did get some good players, but not nearly enough of them, especially on defense. He also let OSU, ND Wisc, Nebraska, etc raid Minnesota's talent.

I believe there will be a couple another big player or two added to this year's list, and the team will be fine.
 

WTF?

cncmin said:
Ah yes, Barry Alvarez was a huge name before Wisconsin, Urban Meyer before he was at Utah, Kirk Ferentz before he was at Iowa, Joe Paterno before he was at Penn State; wasn't Nick Saban relatively unknown before Michigan State? I mean seriously, you take chances on guys because it's difficult to get the top names to come coach your school unless you are an elite program. Maybe back in the day we could have had Paul Bryant, etc., but not since about 1970 have we had a chance at the top guys. Thus, we take some chances. Just because we got lucky in basketball with Tubby doesn't mean we'd have any such luck in football.

Brew's doing a fine job so far. I don't see where the sudden animosity comes from. He's doing as well or better than Mason did, starting with similar talent, and has a couple of top-30 classes to build off of for a push at big years in the near future. Just because we lost out on two big recruits today that actually probably considered us as their second choice doesn't mean the sky is falling. This year's class is arguably as good or better as last year's, our team is back to low-tier bowls -- without many contributors from any of Brewster's recruiting classes -- a new stadium is being built on campus and the program is buzzing. Why the negativity?
Click to expand...

Barry Alverez -- Assistant at Iowa and Notre Dame
Urban Meyer -- cleaned up as Head Coach at Bowling Green before going to Utah, being successful, then going to Florida
Kirk Fierentz -- Assistant at Iowa, many stops in the NFL and EXTREMELY well respected in coaching circles before being hired.
Joe Paterno was an assitant at PSU for years before becoming head coach.

Yes, any hire (even if we hired Urban Meyer today) would be a risk and may not pan out for many reasons, I get that.

Now, my animosity towards Maturi has been there from Day one. Our coaching job should not be a learn as you go experience to the degree and level Brewster needed to learn and grow. Period.

That being said, he was hired to recruit and he gets an incomplete so far. Not because of the players that didn't commit yesterday, but because the class last year was not as good as advertised based on the FACT that the top players in that class have all yet to be on the team. That appears to be working itself out, but until they are on the team come fall, it's still an incomplete. This is in conjunction with chasing off three of the top receivers we had for this year (not stellar players, but it was obvious we didn't have anyone that would have been better this year to replace them). Who else thinks that Red Shirting Da'Jon McKnight, Troy Stoudermire and Broderick Smith would have been a better idea of building depth and talent for the future than burning full seasons of eligibility for the 11 catches they delivered? Stoudermire did contribute on kick-offs, but again, we had others that could have carried that load and let him learn the game a bit better. Chambers, Herndon and Howell would have been serviceable to give the talented players more time to develop. But our "coach" hasn't adapted to the college game yet. But hey, it's only been 2 years, right. He'll figure it out by year 5 i'm sure.

My animosity towards Brewster comes from the FACT that we gave up 97 points in the last two games to average teams while scoring 21 and the AD is talking about extending him.

It also comes from the reality we may win more games with better players, but we will get outcoached in every game except Wisconsin in the big ten next year and possibly Illinois. We hired Ron Zook light.

All the coaching inability with half the recruiting acumen.

Brewster is our coach, for better or worse. I am not calling for firing him at this point, but he has been an extreme disappointment and the writing should be on the wall, improve or else. Get your program under control. Get the kids you say are coming here, and keep the ones you have here. Get your coaching staff in order, and shut up and win some games. We're 0-6 in trophy games under Brewster. He has not gotten it done to this point.

IF he turns it around, I'll apologize publicly. When we were 7-1 I was concerned about the lack of discipline on this team. Too many Personal Fouls that were not playing to the whistle, hard D fouls, but playing to the whistle, beyond it, and costing the team. The team this year was marginally better than last year. The record was better mainly because of Ted Roof's job with the defense. Brewster needs to step it up big time next year. In my mind, he has two more seasons. If we're still in the 7-5/6-6 range, time to make a change for the same reasons Mason was fired and for what Brewster said when he showed up. Expect more. Expect better. Mediocre is not acceptable anymore.
 

My god, some of you want instant gratification. He has had one recruiting class, come back here two years from now and then we can judge if he can coach, using his own players.Chambers, Howell and Herdon would have done no more than the freshman did, and you would have been the first one on here complaining why he is playing them.
 

caliGopher said:
Barry Alverez -- Assistant at Iowa and Notre Dame
Urban Meyer -- cleaned up as Head Coach at Bowling Green before going to Utah, being successful, then going to Florida
Kirk Fierentz -- Assistant at Iowa, many stops in the NFL and EXTREMELY well respected in coaching circles before being hired.
Joe Paterno was an assitant at PSU for years before becoming head coach.

Yes, any hire (even if we hired Urban Meyer today) would be a risk and may not pan out for many reasons, I get that.

Now, my animosity towards Maturi has been there from Day one. Our coaching job should not be a learn as you go experience to the degree and level Brewster needed to learn and grow. Period.

That being said, he was hired to recruit and he gets an incomplete so far. Not because of the players that didn't commit yesterday, but because the class last year was not as good as advertised based on the FACT that the top players in that class have all yet to be on the team. That appears to be working itself out, but until they are on the team come fall, it's still an incomplete. This is in conjunction with chasing off three of the top receivers we had for this year (not stellar players, but it was obvious we didn't have anyone that would have been better this year to replace them). Who else thinks that Red Shirting Da'Jon McKnight, Troy Stoudermire and Broderick Smith would have been a better idea of building depth and talent for the future than burning full seasons of eligibility for the 11 catches they delivered? Stoudermire did contribute on kick-offs, but again, we had others that could have carried that load and let him learn the game a bit better. Chambers, Herndon and Howell would have been serviceable to give the talented players more time to develop. But our "coach" hasn't adapted to the college game yet. But hey, it's only been 2 years, right. He'll figure it out by year 5 i'm sure.

My animosity towards Brewster comes from the FACT that we gave up 97 points in the last two games to average teams while scoring 21 and the AD is talking about extending him.

It also comes from the reality we may win more games with better players, but we will get outcoached in every game except Wisconsin in the big ten next year and possibly Illinois. We hired Ron Zook light.

All the coaching inability with half the recruiting acumen.

Brewster is our coach, for better or worse. I am not calling for firing him at this point, but he has been an extreme disappointment and the writing should be on the wall, improve or else. Get your program under control. Get the kids you say are coming here, and keep the ones you have here. Get your coaching staff in order, and shut up and win some games. We're 0-6 in trophy games under Brewster. He has not gotten it done to this point.

IF he turns it around, I'll apologize publicly. When we were 7-1 I was concerned about the lack of discipline on this team. Too many Personal Fouls that were not playing to the whistle, hard D fouls, but playing to the whistle, beyond it, and costing the team. The team this year was marginally better than last year. The record was better mainly because of Ted Roof's job with the defense. Brewster needs to step it up big time next year. In my mind, he has two more seasons. If we're still in the 7-5/6-6 range, time to make a change for the same reasons Mason was fired and for what Brewster said when he showed up. Expect more. Expect better. Mediocre is not acceptable anymore.
Click to expand...

CaliGopher, great post. Also Ferentz was actually a head coach at the University of Maine before as well. Those are the types of jobs that a coach with no coordinator or head coaching experience should be learning at, not a Big Ten school.
 

caligopher

your post can't be serious? can it? 2 top 25 classes and the biggest turn around in College Football and you expect more? in year 2? Brewster is the best thing that has happened to this program in decades and I would not trade him for any other coach in the Big ten. Give the man time and I guarantee the Gophers are playing in the rose bowl long before the vikings are playing in a super bowl.
 

McKnight, Stoudermire, Smith and any of the other freshmen that played this past season can take a red-shirt season in the next 3 years if Brewster or the players feel like that is a good idea for themselves and/ or the team. Many players take a red-shirt season other than their 1st year is school. 3 current wrestlers on the Gopher team have taken red-shirts (Thorn, Schlatter, Eindenschink) either their 2nd or 4th season. Baseball players and hockey players do it all the time and so do football players. There are many different reasons players take a red-shirt other than their 1st year in school and I hope some of these players do take a red-shirt at a later date. Some of them might have only come to Minnesota because they were promised they would play their 1st year here.
 

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