Redistribution of the Wealth

[jamiche]

My friend BGA obsesses on the OT board about redistribution of the wealth and maybe he's on to something. In two years the athletic dept. is going to implement its premium seating plan and my guess is that my two seats are going to cost an extra $500. I figure the additional income generated from the premium seating program can be used to fund Tubby's extension at $2M++ per year. The AD will or would say that there's no direct connection, but the money's gotta come from somewhere. So, there are a few obvious questions:

1. Would I rather get a good young coach for $1M a year and delay having to give him the big contract when he threatens to walk if it means that I don't have to fork over the additional $500 per year? Yes

2. Are we getting good value for Tubby's contract after four years? I think I'll wait until the end of the season to answer that one for myself.

3. Would I pay the extra $500 if they would give us a competitive home non conference schedule? It shouldn't take that, but I would consider it.

My kids are grown and out of the house. There are four or five good games a year. There aren't as many people who want to go as there used to be. I can buy good tix for below face outside of the building for almost any game. I have a great TV.

More and more people are going to be asking these questions. It might not just be Tubby dragging his feet on the extension.

 

[BleedGopher]

I was thinking about the upcoming premium seating issue after the Illinois game and how the athletic department desperately needs a breakout season for hoops and and re-emergence in hockey to get the % of ticket renewals that they will need to make the increase in premium pricing successful. If Tubby is still our coach in two years and if we don't have a true breakthrough season between now and then, I think there will be a lower-than-initially-expected renewal with the premiums added on. Likewise, I'm not sure an up-and-coming coach is going to excite the fans that much to pay an extra $500 or $1,000 for a pair of tickets. It's going to be a very interesting situation to watch unfold and it is much more difficult to get a new season ticket holder or an old one back, than it is to keep an existing one. Once a person decides to either not pay the premium as a potential new ticket holder or an existing one opts not to pay the new premium, it will be hard to get them back. They must get a large percentage of existing ticket holders to renew to make their jobs a lot easier.

Go Gophers!!

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

$2 Million Per Year

25 W per season. Top 3-4 in B10. Contenders for title and B10 tourney. And postseason W.

That's what I'd expect.

 

[dlw4gophers]

My wife and I are asking the same type of questions. This year we have 4 ($250) seats for football. These are not together they are 2 and 2. We will be contacting the ticket office soon. If they can't get us four good seats together we are going to drop this to two.. We have 2 in Men's Hockey and 2 in Men's Basketball. We have someone lined up to split the hockey season tickets next year. Basketball is up in the air. There are too many home games that I don't have much interest in seeing. We had three decent OOC home games this year and tickets were easy to get outside the arena just before the game for these. We travel a lot in January, so we miss two or three of the big ten games. I think basketball will be the odd man out next year. Also with basketball and hockey tickets, it gets to the point where your always going to the U for sports on a week end. I am not sure the U will be putting in the new seating plan for basketball and hockey at a good time. I have talked to a lot of season ticket holder that are saying they will not renew because of the cost. Now talk is cheap so we will see what the renewal numbers are in 2011-12 season.

 

[bga1]

My friend BGA obsesses on the OT board about redistribution of the wealth and maybe he's on to something. In two years the athletic dept. is going to implement its premium seating plan and my guess is that my two seats are going to cost an extra $500. I figure the additional income generated from the premium seating program can be used to fund Tubby's extension at $2M++ per year. The AD will or would say that there's no direct connection, but the money's gotta come from somewhere. So, there are a few obvious questions:

1. Would I rather get a good young coach for $1M a year and delay having to give him the big contract when he threatens to walk if it means that I don't have to fork over the additional $500 per year? Yes

2. Are we getting good value for Tubby's contract after four years? I think I'll wait until the end of the season to answer that one for myself.

3. Would I pay the extra $500 if they would give us a competitive home non conference schedule? It shouldn't take that, but I would consider it.

My kids are grown and out of the house. There are four or five good games a year. There aren't as many people who want to go as there used to be. I can buy good tix for below face outside of the building for almost any game. I have a great TV.

More and more people are going to be asking these questions. It might not just be Tubby dragging his feet on the extension.

Ha! Thanks for the reference jamiche.

No doubt, when the premium seating idea was hatched and even up to just a month ago it looked like their timing would be very good. It looked like this team would at least compete for a Big Ten championship and maybe make a run in the tournament. Now we have a major disappointment of a season and discussion about whether we will be any good in years to come.

Still I think Tubby is as good of a bet as we are going to have. I wish he'd make some adjustments but one great season with him here and his name brand and Gopher buckets would be the talk of the town again.

I'm totally with you on having a little better home schedule. One more thing- I will consider the $500 per seat an okay trade if they get rid of all the silly commercials and games during timeouts-these are a bit of the reason why the Barn no longer is the venue it was. The fans are all pumped up, the other team calls time out and we have two students come out and miss 10 straight layups.

 

[bga1]

25 W per season. Top 3-4 in B10. Contenders for title and B10 tourney. And postseason W.

That's what I'd expect.

So far- he hasn't been "that good".

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

So far- he hasn't been "that good".

That's what should be expected.

 

[bga1]

I was thinking about the upcoming premium seating issue after the Illinois game and how the athletic department desperately needs a breakout season for hoops and and re-emergence in hockey to get the % of ticket renewals that they will need to make the increase in premium pricing successful. If Tubby is still our coach in two years and if we don't have a true breakthrough season between now and then, I think there will be a lower-than-initially-expected renewal with the premiums added on. Likewise, I'm not sure an up-and-coming coach is going to excite the fans that much to pay an extra $500 or $1,000 for a pair of tickets. It's going to be a very interesting situation to watch unfold and it is much more difficult to get a new season ticket holder or an old one back, than it is to keep an existing one. Once a person decides to either not pay the premium as a potential new ticket holder or an existing one opts not to pay the new premium, it will be hard to get them back. They must get a large percentage of existing ticket holders to renew to make their jobs a lot easier.

Go Gophers!!

You are right about this Bleed. If Tubby leaves, I think they would have to delay the plan. As far as a breakthrough it almost has to happen next year. A breakthrough for me at this point in our drought would be a third place or better finish and a sweet 16 appearance. That would give the premium seating deal the jumpstart it needs.

Tubby is solid. He's the kind of guy that won't excite you with his recruiting, he won't get you pumped with what he says, his style of play isn't that exciting and he doesn't infuse emotion into the game like a Mussy or Clem. Tubby has to keep the momentum going with consistent production of wins. Next year is BIG.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

25 W per season. Top 3-4 in B10. Contenders for title and B10 tourney. And postseason W.

That's what I'd expect.

Agree - he has delivered less than expected.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Agree - he has delivered less than expected.

Fair expectations. In 16 years B4 Minnesota, 24 W average per season. 7 conference titles (of 16).

 

[jamiche]

That's what should be expected.

You know Tubby's in trouble when FOT becomes Fair Weather FOT.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

You know Tubby's in trouble when FOT becomes Fair Weather FOT.

Nope. Just stating what I think are FAIR expectations. Just like I think after 2 years and $3 trillion deficit spending, MY expectations are not being met by current POTUS.

 

[jamiche]

You are right about this Bleed. If Tubby leaves, I think they would have to delay the plan. As far as a breakthrough it almost has to happen next year. A breakthrough for me at this point in our drought would be a third place or better finish and a sweet 16 appearance. That would give the premium seating deal the jumpstart it needs.

Tubby is solid. He's the kind of guy that won't excite you with his recruiting, he won't get you pumped with what he says, his style of play isn't that exciting and he doesn't infuse emotion into the game like a Mussy or Clem. Tubby has to keep the momentum going with consistent production of wins. Next year is BIG.

Tubby is solid but there are lots of ways to get solid for less than $2M per year. $2M should buy well beyond solid or the compensation gets adjusted.

I don't see anything on the roster, current or upcoming, or anything in the aura around gopher hoops that looks like a breakthrough for next year. I believe Trevor and Rodney will be gone and the guard play will be young and younger.

 

[station19]

Friend Of Tubby
Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,102



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiche
You know Tubby's in trouble when FOT becomes Fair Weather FOT.

Nope. Just stating what I think are FAIR expectations.
.................................................................................................................

I don't think Tubby is 'in trouble' but the 'honeymoon' is over.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Tubby is solid but there are lots of ways to get solid for less than $2M per year. $2M should buy well beyond solid or the compensation gets adjusted.

I don't see anything on the roster, current or upcoming, or anything in the aura around gopher hoops that looks like a breakthrough for next year. I believe Trevor and Rodney will be gone and the guard play will be young and younger.

Trevor committed to stay at Minnesota when he was reinstated. I don't see where Rodney would go.

 

[scher215]

Trevor committed to stay at Minnesota when he was reinstated. I don't see where Rodney would go.

Exactly.

Add to that that even Sullinger is now considering not going pro.

I don't think some fans realize how huge this new CBA is going to be. Look at the NFL, they may even have a lock out and David Stern wants some pretty big changes it sounds like. If Stern cuts overall salaries (as he wants to do) that will likely mean something for the rookie pay scale too. might reduced guaranteed money. Which would make you less likely to turn pro if you didn't know for sure you'd stick on a team.

Also, if Stern contracts some teams (which could happen) or maybe eliminates the NBDL that leaves fewer roster spots or opportunities for players who are not solid role players or "stars." The CBA and changes made will be huge in determining how reasonable it is for some guys to turn pro.

Also, if they declare and a lock out occurs. Good luck making money.

I don't see Trevor or Rodney going to the NBA, simply for the CBA reason alone. They may leave, but it won't be for the NBA.

 

[jamiche]

Trevor committed to stay at Minnesota when he was reinstated. I don't see where Rodney would go.

Trevor is ready to make a living. I think he will go overseas. Rodney looks very unhappy. Obviously, there are more reasons for him to stay than to go but it still wouldn't surprise me if he transferred.

 

[gopherphan]

Rodney doesnt look unhappy, he looks lazy.

Also, as a part of the student section that is constantly ragged on by not being good enough despite the rest of the bowl's ineptitude, i'd be overjoyed with some season ticket overturn.

 

[Southpaw]

It's going to be a very interesting situation to watch unfold and it is much more difficult to get a new season ticket holder or an old one back, than it is to keep an existing one. Once a person decides to either not pay the premium as a potential new ticket holder or an existing one opts not to pay the new premium, it will be hard to get them back. They must get a large percentage of existing ticket holders to renew to make their jobs a lot easier.

Right on, Bleed. Even those that reluctantly go along with the premium seating scheme at first may decide that it's simply not worth it when the team experiences a downturn - once these folks decide to abandon their seats, the Athletic Dept will NEVER get them back. Look at Iowa - they used to fill the arena with an enthusiastic fan base, but now they're in the midst of a downturn. Now the arena has many unsold tickets for most games even though their Atletic Dept has been forced to lower their ticket prices ($266 for season tix; $20 for B10 weekday; and $25 for B10 weekend).

IMO the premium seating scam is short-sighted - it may generate a bit of extra revenue at first, but will probably result in a less-than-filled arena consisting mainly of high rollers who can afford the high ticket prices. The young, enthusiastic fan will be priced out of the market and the barn atmosphere will suffer as a result - even the high rollers will jump ship at the first sign of a downturn because it will simply not be worth it.

 

[jovs]

25 W per season. Top 3-4 in B10. Contenders for title and B10 tourney. And postseason W.

That's what I'd expect.

Wisconsin is doing it with a core of what are basically Minnesota kids.

 

[Swede]

One more thing- I will consider the $500 per seat an okay trade if they get rid of all the silly commercials and games during timeouts-these are a bit of the reason why the Barn no longer is the venue it was. The fans are all pumped up, the other team calls time out and we have two students come out and miss 10 straight layups.

If the idea is to raise more revenue, I think you will see the seat premium and the silly in game commercials.

It will be interesting to see what the barn looks like with the premium plan in place. I haven't' been to a game in a couple of years. I am affiliated with a large, corporate entity that used to have tickets and a barn loft. This is a company that has little in the way of business overhead all things considered, but revenue and the share price was down and so this entity, which used to boast having tickets to about any event in town, dropped all such expenditures. With the new reality in our economy, will spending like that return on the scale that it once was? Will corporate money put up with the premium fees? The Barn looks anemic these days. It might look like a funeral parlor next year.

 

[jamiche]

Wisconsin is doing it with a core of what are basically Minnesota kids.

Wisconsin does it year in and year out with one of the best coaches in the country. He consistently does more with less than any other major program.

 

[BleedGopher]

Wisconsin does it year in and year out with one of the best coaches in the country. He consistently does more with less than any other major program.

I don't buy this statement jamiche. Bo is obviously a very good coach, no doubting that. Is he one of the best in the nation? His post-season success would not back that up. And to say he does more with less than any other major program also means he doesn't recruit as well as many major programs. At this point, he's in charge of the talent he brings in. He has great access to the Chicago market, he's recruited some studs out of MN and has had a number of Top 100 Wisconsin players as well. If he chooses to either not go after a top 25 kid nationally or is unable to get them, that's either his deal or his fault. But either way, after 8-10 years in the program, he is more than responsible for the talent on his roster, so it's not as if he is needs to be patted on the back for winning with "less talent." In fact, UW has some solid players that Bo recruited (final Rivals rankings):

Leuer: #82
Nankivil: #92
Taylor: #125
Bruesewitz: #118
Berggren: #74

Compare that to our would-be starting five:

Hoffarber: Not in Rivals Top 150
Nolen: Not in Rivals Top 150
Mbakwe: Not in Rivals Top 150
RS3: #59
Joseph: #61
Iverson: #137

Not to mention a number of other big time recruits. Here are national rankings from Rivals at the end of some good HS careers: Butch #9, Stiemsma #45, Krabbenhoft #23, Bohannan #88, Hughes #58, etc. So he obviously has brought in talent, and if he hasn't (which I don't agree with) then its his choice. In addition, to qualify as "one of the best coaches in the country" I think he needs to get to more than one Elite 8 in 9 years, which is as far as he's taken the Badgers in the post-season. All that being said, obviously I'd LOVE for his success (never finishing worse than 4th in the BT, making the tourney EVERY year, 3 BT titles, rarely loses at home, etc.) But Gopher fans' jealousy (put me at the top of the list) often times clouds our judgment on Ryan. He's one heck of a regular season coach, but hasn't come close to post-season success to put him in the elite category yet, and let's hope he never gets there.

Go Gophers!!

 

[streetfighter]

I believe Trevor and Rodney will be gone and the guard play will be young and younger.

Honestly, what is it with people and thinking Rodney will go to the NBA? He is nothing but athletic with few basketball skills. Most importantly, he hasn't seemed to improve from year to year. He has nowhere to go for the mean time until he figures out how to use that athleticism for some basketball plays.

I'm going to guess that scouts aren't drooling over a guy who averages 6.4pts a game and shoots .463 from the field including .176 from behind the arc. Hell, he's even shooting under 50% from the free throw line.

EDIT: I suppose if you weren't referring to him playing in the next level, then he still could transfer. I don't see that happening either.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Rodney doesnt look unhappy, he looks lazy.

Also, as a part of the student section that is constantly ragged on by not being good enough despite the rest of the bowl's ineptitude, i'd be overjoyed with some season ticket overturn.

gopherphan, I think you're going to get your wish. I've talked to a few of the older folks, and they feel the premium is going to be the tipping point for many of their generation. Then, for better or worse, you won't have Nixon to kick around anymore. But if you think that they're going to be magically replaced by a throng of new fans who are just like you and won't piss you off, think again. It's not like people are lining up to pay that kind of money just to hang out with you at Williams Arena. Attendance is going to go down. Enjoy.

 

[jamiche]

Honestly, what is it with people and thinking Rodney will go to the NBA? He is nothing but athletic with few basketball skills. Most importantly, he hasn't seemed to improve from year to year. He has nowhere to go for the mean time until he figures out how to use that athleticism for some basketball plays.

I'm going to guess that scouts aren't drooling over a guy who averages 6.4pts a game and shoots .463 from the field including .176 from behind the arc. Hell, he's even shooting under 50% from the free throw line.

EDIT: I suppose if you weren't referring to him playing in the next level, then he still could transfer. I don't see that happening either.

I didn't say he way going to the NBA. Kid's his age, when they feel frustrated, do irrational things (see: Joseph, Devoe).

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Wisconsin does it year in and year out with one of the best coaches in the country. He consistently does more with less than any other major program.

Except in NCAA tourney. Bo has a mediocre W-L record there. He's VERY GOOD in regular season.

 

[BarnBurner]

I don't buy this statement jamiche. Bo is obviously a very good coach, no doubting that. Is he one of the best in the nation? His post-season success would not back that up. And to say he does more with less than any other major program also means he doesn't recruit as well as many major programs. At this point, he's in charge of the talent he brings in. He has great access to the Chicago market, he's recruited some studs out of MN and has had a number of Top 100 Wisconsin players as well. If he chooses to either not go after a top 25 kid nationally or is unable to get them, that's either his deal or his fault. But either way, after 8-10 years in the program, he is more than responsible for the talent on his roster, so it's not as if he is needs to be patted on the back for winning with "less talent." In fact, UW has some solid players that Bo recruited (final Rivals rankings):

Leuer: #82
Nankivil: #92
Taylor: #125
Bruesewitz: #118
Berggren: #74

Compare that to our would-be starting five:

Hoffarber: Not in Rivals Top 150
Nolen: Not in Rivals Top 150
Mbakwe: Not in Rivals Top 150
RS3: #59
Joseph: #61
Iverson: #137

Not to mention a number of other big time recruits. Here are national rankings from Rivals at the end of some good HS careers: Butch #9, Stiemsma #45, Krabbenhoft #23, Bohannan #88, Hughes #58, etc. So he obviously has brought in talent, and if he hasn't (which I don't agree with) then its his choice. In addition, to qualify as "one of the best coaches in the country" I think he needs to get to more than one Elite 8 in 9 years, which is as far as he's taken the Badgers in the post-season. All that being said, obviously I'd LOVE for his success (never finishing worse than 4th in the BT, making the tourney EVERY year, 3 BT titles, rarely loses at home, etc.) But Gopher fans' jealousy (put me at the top of the list) often times clouds our judgment on Ryan. He's one heck of a regular season coach, but hasn't come close to post-season success to put him in the elite category yet, and let's hope he never gets there.

Go Gophers!!

If you are comparing potential starting lineups, you have to ask why MN's is not on par with Wisky.

4 years in.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

If you are comparing potential starting lineups, you have to ask why MN's is not on par with Wisky.

4 years in.

Lack of basketball tradition and success by Minnesota.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

A Healthy Gopher Lineup

Lost by 3 to Ohio State AT Columbus.

A healthy Badger lineup won by 4 over Ohio State AT Madison.