Recruits flipping?

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booger

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Fleck seems very loyal to Western Michigan, but what about all their recruits flipping? Not sure how that is thought of in the coaching world. Wonder what the former employer thinks of this. An obvious discussion point.
 

I'm having trouble understanding your first sentence, booger.
 

Usually the opinion depends entirely upon whether you're the school of the flipper or the flipee. Place went nuts in here when Brew flipped Michael Carter and Keanon Cooper. Sad faces when we lose someone who committed at one point.
 

No one will agree with me here and i expect to be trashed, but the honorable thing for a coach to do is wait for the recruit to ask the coach if he can follow him to his new school. He shouldnt solicit the committed recruits. Its disrespectful and not an elite behavior IMHO.

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DoubleAlum said:
No one will agree with me here and i expect to be trashed, but the honorable thing for a coach to do is wait for the recruit to ask the coach if he can follow him to his new school. He shouldnt solicit the committed recruits. Its disrespectful and not an elite behavior IMHO.
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When did he ask them to follow?
 



I have no idea if he did. Just giving my thoughts on the OP's question. By the way, im very excited about Fleck. I just pray that he walks the talk, cause if he does we will have a classy program.

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Some of these kids would have left Western Michigan anyway. Would you rather they come here or head to Purdue or Illinois?


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These guys flipping so quickly tells me they committed to Western Michigan mainly because of Fleck. With him leaving I think many would have decomitted. Don't know for sure, just seems that way.
 



MaxyJR1 said:
Some of these kids would have left Western Michigan anyway. Would you rather they come here or head to Purdue or Illinois?


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Im not sure if that was the question.

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you cant worry about itas a coach. You worked hard forover a year on the kids. Take who you want and get it going. Paid to win
 

booger said:
Fleck seems very loyal to Western Michigan, but what about all their recruits flipping? Not sure how that is thought of in the coaching world. Wonder what the former employer thinks of this. An obvious discussion point.
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He'll likely have a difficult conversation with his former employer about this. Likely in the morning.


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As others have mentioned what is he supposed to do? None of the commits have even visited MN. They are committed to Fleck and want to play for him, not someone else.
 



Obviously

GophersInIowa said:
These guys flipping so quickly tells me they committed to Western Michigan mainly because of Fleck. With him leaving I think many would have decomitted. Don't know for sure, just seems that way.
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Obviously, they signed up to play for PJ !!! They didn't signup to play for WMU. They are excited to come to Minnesota without ever having been here. It's the relationship part he talks about. They want to want to follow PJ.

He is asking the best of them to come to MN because he has that relationship with them. He knows their character. He kept all of the state of Minnesota guys after checking on their backgrounds because the state of Minnesota is a priority. He's going to investigate the out of state commits next. He doesn't know the Minnesota commits. He needs to check them out. He knows the WMU commits. Time is a factor here...you think other schools aren't calling these guys?

Seems pretty simple.
 

As noted in another thread, when Fleck took the WMU job, he told all of the recruits with verbal commits under the former coach that their offers were rescinded, and he was going to re-evaluate all offers.

So, despite all the positive talk, there is apparently a fairly ruthless side to Fleck, too.

It's true that players more often than not commit to the coach (or an assistant coach) more than the school. Under the rules, they have not signed a letter of intent, and have every right to change their mind and de-commit in order to follow a coach to a new school.

But - just to be fair - there should also be a provision that - if Fleck leaves MN before those players graduate, the players should be free to transfer with no penalty - because, after all, they committed to the coach - not to the school.

and - just to be the devil's advocate - imagine this from the WMU point of view. If Claeys had left for another school, and 9 or 10 kids rescinded their verbals to MN and announced they would follow Claeys to his new school, this board would be melting down. If it helps MN, it's OK. If it hurts MN, it's not OK. That is the justification for a lot of people on this board - sad but true.
 

So much fail in this entire post. A player can transfer but not without penalty...they have to sit for a year. Also Minnesota is a power 5 B1G, Western Michigan is the MAC and of course those kids are going to go up a level. A coach going from a power 5 job to another power 5 job is not going to be able to flip 8 kids. Minnesota has had kids flip like Nate Andrews who won a title with FSU, nobody complained, it happens all the time.

short ornery norwegian said:
As noted in another thread, when Fleck took the WMU job, he told all of the recruits with verbal commits under the former coach that their offers were rescinded, and he was going to re-evaluate all offers.

So, despite all the positive talk, there is apparently a fairly ruthless side to Fleck, too.

It's true that players more often than not commit to the coach (or an assistant coach) more than the school. Under the rules, they have not signed a letter of intent, and have every right to change their mind and de-commit in order to follow a coach to a new school.

But - just to be fair - there should also be a provision that - if Fleck leaves MN before those players graduate, the players should be free to transfer with no penalty - because, after all, they committed to the coach - not to the school.

and - just to be the devil's advocate - imagine this from the WMU point of view. If Claeys had left for another school, and 9 or 10 kids rescinded their verbals to MN and announced they would follow Claeys to his new school, this board would be melting down. If it helps MN, it's OK. If it hurts MN, it's not OK. That is the justification for a lot of people on this board - sad but true.
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mnguy2017 said:
you cant worry about itas a coach. You worked hard forover a year on the kids. Take who you want and get it going. Paid to win
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3 things-
1. He and his staff worked hard to recruit these kids, but it was fully funded by WMU.
2. Kids may be choosing based on a coach, but let's at least pay lip service to the academics and acknowledge that they are actually applying to a particular university, not a coach. Odd how 6 kids were offered U scholarships, got through U admissions and flipped their verbals less than 24 hours after Fleck accepts the job.
3. I trust then there will be zero complaining in a couple years if Fleck took a job at ND or something like that, and poaches half the class just a few weeks before signing day.
 

Catechol said:
3 things-
1. He and his staff worked hard to recruit these kids, but it was fully funded by WMU.
2. Kids may be choosing based on a coach, but let's at least pay lip service to the academics and acknowledge that they are actually applying to a particular university, not a coach. Odd how 6 kids were offered U scholarships, got through U admissions and flipped their verbals less than 24 hours after Fleck accepts the job.
3. I trust then there will be zero complaining in a couple years if Fleck took a job at ND or something like that, and poaches half the class just a few weeks before signing day.
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Think it is up to 9 now.

(Edit) My mistake, you said 24 hours. Apologies.
 

There is apparently an article in one of the Detroit papers that states that some of Fleck's WMU assistants were contacting their commits that Fleck was coming here even before it was officially announced. While they were still on the WMU payroll. And obviously were not yet on staff here.
 

It makes sense there would be a lot of movement to here. He's recruited so well because players were willing to spurn the P5 in order to play for him at WMU.

When he calls up and says "hey, we can still do this thing together but on the big stage in the big city in the Big Ten"...yeah some guys will take that. It's a better academic school and overall better opportunity. I would.
 

bigticket1 said:
There is apparently an article in one of the Detroit papers that states that some of Fleck's WMU assistants were contacting their commits that Fleck was coming here even before it was officially announced. While they were still on the WMU payroll. And obviously were not yet on staff here.
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Here you go, per the Detroit News:

Guthrie called Fleck Friday night and decided to join him at Minnesota when Fleck offered him -- for a second time.

“I got a text from some of the assistant coaches, letting me know Coach Fleck was leaving before it became official,” Guthrie said. “(Fleck) explained the situation to me, offered me over the phone, then started talking about Gopher football and why it was a place he picked. I didn’t need to hear about the culture that he was starting at Minnesota because I knew the culture from being committed to Western Michigan.”

Guthrie committed to Fleck and the Gophers without having visited the Minneapolis campus.

“It is far from home, but I talked to my uncle and cousin, who do business in the Twin Cities a lot,” Guthrie said. “They told me about the Twin Cities and what it had to offer, about how the campus was and how the community supported the program, and that helped me with my decision.

“I plan to enroll early and I’ll get there the 17th.”

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp...-losing-recruits-pj-fleck-minnesota/96316750/

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
Here you go, per the Detroit News:

Guthrie called Fleck Friday night and decided to join him at Minnesota when Fleck offered him -- for a second time.

“I got a text from some of the assistant coaches, letting me know Coach Fleck was leaving before it became official,” Guthrie said. “(Fleck) explained the situation to me, offered me over the phone, then started talking about Gopher football and why it was a place he picked. I didn’t need to hear about the culture that he was starting at Minnesota because I knew the culture from being committed to Western Michigan.”

Guthrie committed to Fleck and the Gophers without having visited the Minneapolis campus.

“It is far from home, but I talked to my uncle and cousin, who do business in the Twin Cities a lot,” Guthrie said. “They told me about the Twin Cities and what it had to offer, about how the campus was and how the community supported the program, and that helped me with my decision.

“I plan to enroll early and I’ll get there the 17th.”

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp...-losing-recruits-pj-fleck-minnesota/96316750/

Go Gophers!!
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I wonder if there is any legal precedent on this issue such as "breach of duty to your employer", "misuse of employer resources or "stealing" from your employer", "interruption of business", "undermining the business of an employer" etc. I realize this behavior is common in the field of coaching, but i'd love to see a university challenge it one day. They might have a case if the behavior took place while the coach was still employed by the university. I could see a judge saying that a coach cant re-recruit a player until he's fully gone from his prior employer. Also, i wonder if a school has ever tried to put terms in a contract that addresses this. Ok, go ahead, start to beat me up over this post. [emoji2]

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DoubleAlum said:
I wonder if there is any legal precedent on this issue such as "breach of duty to your employer", "misuse of employer resources or "stealing" from your employer", "interruption of business", "undermining the business of an employer" etc. I realize this behavior is common in the field of coaching, but i'd love to see a university challenge it one day. They might have a case if the behavior took place while the coach was still employed by the university. I could see a judge saying that a coach cant re-recruit a player until he's fully gone from his prior employer. Also, i wonder if a school has ever tried to put terms in a contract that addresses this. Ok, go ahead, start to beat me up over this post. [emoji2]

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On what basis would a judge say that?
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
On what basis would a judge say that?
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Not sure what the legal basis would be, but something like the theories mentioned in my post. Kinda (but not exactly) like taking company information that was developed, bought and paid for by an employer. Especially, when the behavior to flip the recruit was performed by staff who were still employed by the "losing" school. Just a thought.

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DoubleAlum said:
Not sure what the legal basis would be, but something like the theories mentioned in my post. Kinda (but not exactly) like taking company information that was developed, bought and paid for by an employer. Especially, when the behavior to flip the recruit was performed by staff who were still employed by the "losing" school. Just a thought.

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I'm pretty sure that makes no sense at all...
 

BleedGopher said:
Here you go, per the Detroit News:

Guthrie called Fleck Friday night and decided to join him at Minnesota when Fleck offered him -- for a second time.

“I got a text from some of the assistant coaches, letting me know Coach Fleck was leaving before it became official,” Guthrie said. “(Fleck) explained the situation to me, offered me over the phone, then started talking about Gopher football and why it was a place he picked. I didn’t need to hear about the culture that he was starting at Minnesota because I knew the culture from being committed to Western Michigan.”

Guthrie committed to Fleck and the Gophers without having visited the Minneapolis campus.

“It is far from home, but I talked to my uncle and cousin, who do business in the Twin Cities a lot,” Guthrie said. “They told me about the Twin Cities and what it had to offer, about how the campus was and how the community supported the program, and that helped me with my decision.

“I plan to enroll early and I’ll get there the 17th.”

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp...-losing-recruits-pj-fleck-minnesota/96316750/

Go Gophers!!
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Wait...the community supports the program?
 


DoubleAlum said:
Not sure what the legal basis would be, but something like the theories mentioned in my post. Kinda (but not exactly) like taking company information that was developed, bought and paid for by an employer. Especially, when the behavior to flip the recruit was performed by staff who were still employed by the "losing" school. Just a thought.

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But it being all verbal right now, nothing on the dotted line.....
 


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