Reasons why Tubby won't be fired

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GopherinPhilly

GopherinPhilly

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1. Money - $2.5 mil buyout added to loan from U will not happen. Bringing in new coach who would be better than Tubby will require big spending on young gun and that would throw Football coach salary out of balance (Tubby has National Champ and HOF Credentials to demand $2 mil per year vs. Kill be lowest paid in Big Ten). Need to give Kill a raise and soon.

2. History - Team just won an NCAA game for first time in 23 years (according to NCAA and official stats). Program is being run clean, going to NCAA 3 of 6 years and a victory this year...never happened in history of Gopher BB.

3. Facilities - our woeful facilities make it hard to pay buy out and ask for contributions. Our woeful facilities leave little to be desired for incoming coach. 85 year old arena that doesn't mean squat to most high school kids but is beloved by our geriatric fan base.

4. The What if factor...history tells us that firing a successful coach for a more successful coach isn't an automatic in MN. Far too often we have seen failure over the last 60 years with our coaching hires...so the devil you know always has to be considered...and for that reason, even if all the above weren't true...I think Teague rides Tubby for 2 more years (unless epic collapse next year) just to see if we can land one of the big three and if Tubby can bring in some fresh blood on the bench to improve our squad.
 


GopherinPhilly, you raise really good points and I agree with you. Unfortunately, I think the local radio and print personalities have decided that a change should be made and the average joe six pack will be negative about the program until a change is made.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
1. Money - $2.5 mil buyout added to loan from U will not happen. Bringing in new coach who would be better than Tubby will require big spending on young gun and that would throw Football coach salary out of balance (Tubby has National Champ and HOF Credentials to demand $2 mil per year vs. Kill be lowest paid in Big Ten). Need to give Kill a raise and soon.

2. History - Team just won an NCAA game for first time in 23 years (according to NCAA and official stats). Program is being run clean, going to NCAA 3 of 6 years and a victory this year...never happened in history of Gopher BB.

3. Facilities - our woeful facilities make it hard to pay buy out and ask for contributions. Our woeful facilities leave little to be desired for incoming coach. 85 year old arena that doesn't mean squat to most high school kids but is beloved by our geriatric fan base.

4. The What if factor...history tells us that firing a successful coach for a more successful coach isn't an automatic in MN. Far too often we have seen failure over the last 60 years with our coaching hires...so the devil you know always has to be considered...and for that reason, even if all the above weren't true...I think Teague rides Tubby for 2 more years (unless epic collapse next year) just to see if we can land one of the big three and if Tubby can bring in some fresh blood on the bench to improve our squad.
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If it was a question of firing Smith in order to go search for a coach- then yes- I'd say you were right. I don't think that's the situation. I think it is either going to be Flip or Tubby.

Flip helps with the money situation because I think he would take short money to do this.
Flip provides the instant buzz the program needs right NOW before he big three leave for points other.

If the Flip deal isn't real then I think Tubby stays and all of your reasons are legit.
 

Good well thought out post. That said, I disagree with you.

Money is a driver but the 2.5 million is a bit of a red herring. Teague et al will work out costs according to the big picture. Will keeping Tubby benefit or hurt the overall health of the program? If costs were truly important, they wouldn't have cancelled North Carolina.

People are kidding themselves if they think Tubby is an advantage to recruit the big three. This is the albatross in the room but Tubby's job is in jeopardy, he has no heir apparent on staff, and he will be 63 before they step onto a university campus. The best chance of getting these guys is with a new coach that excites them.

Teague will unveil a master plan for facilities in April. Presumably this will address the practice issues which will help whoever is coach.

Finally, I am pretty sure Teague has desires beyond Minnesota. To succeed, he needs to raise either basketball or football above historic norms. Kill is fairly safe for several years but Tubby is not. Additionally, Teague has experience (and ego, read his bio) with hiring a basketball coach. Finally, though Northwestern has proven it not impossible, most view basketball as an easier sport to succeed at than football.

I suspect we will see Tubby leave within a week or so, probably as a "retirement"
 


Changing coaches is not the answer. A variety of different coaches have not been successful here and the coaches that were successful cheated.
The answer is:
new practice facility
new or remodeled arena
private jet for recruiting(symbolic of a commitment to recruiting)

kentucky has a 28 million dollar apartment complex(Calipari sited this the last time he spoke to Tyus) for basketball players and the U can't even provide a place for players to work out in the off season.
 

bga1 said:
If it was a question of firing Smith in order to go search for a coach- then yes- I'd say you were right. I don't think that's the situation. I think it is either going to be Flip or Tubby.

Flip helps with the money situation because I think he would take short money to do this.
Flip provides the instant buzz the program needs right NOW before he big three leave for points other.

If the Flip deal isn't real then I think Tubby stays and all of your reasons are legit.
Click to expand...

I think you are right on this. I also think that many people do not appreciate the high risk nature of firing a nationally resepcted and revered coach after more success than we have had in a long time with the anchor of the U of M administration hanging around his neck. The hire of Brewster made us a laughing stock throughout the country. Firing Tubby would make us hated in the coaching community for the foreseeable future. The only reasonable and face saving outcome I can see is that Caoch Smith retires with the knowledge that he has lifted this program from the abyss, and then he resurfaces at High Point or something, a la Lou Henson at New Mexico State.

I have suggested for months that if Flip comes in, he is doing it as essentially a volunteer (i.e. way below market salary) for a few years until the financial stuff gets worked out. People have laughed at me for suggesting it, but I do not see an alternative. We all know that throwing money at a coach is not a magic bullet and while I like Flip, I am not asuming that he is guaranteed success if he comes here if needed.

Any hanging in the wind would be a disaster short term and maybe longer.
 

I have this funny feeling that in the background, Flip has been pining for this job and letting his closest confidants know, he would take it if offered. He has been far more vocal on the program this year then ever before.

That being said, unfortunately, if Tubby stays, though the players may like him, this programs is going to take a major recruiting hit and we better get used to 2 and 3 star recruits being the only ones that consider us. PERCEPTION of this programs, nationally, is NOT good.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
history tells us that firing a successful coach for a more successful coach isn't an automatic in MN.
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Not sure how this statement applies to the current situation.

Our coach is 46-62 in the Big Ten.
Our average finish is 7.5
 



If a change is made the money will not be an issue.

Secondly, if a change is made because the media decided there should be one and the fans are negative the AD is in way over his head.
 

StCroix said:
I have this funny feeling that in the background, Flip has been pining for this job and letting his closest confidants know, he would take it if offered. He has been far more vocal on the program this year then ever before.

That being said, unfortunately, if Tubby stays, though the players may like him, this programs is going to take a major recruiting hit and we better get used to 2 and 3 star recruits being the only ones that consider us. PERCEPTION of this programs, nationally, is NOT good.
Click to expand...


I think perception locally may be lower than it is nationally, and that is a sad state of affairs. If national perception is comparing it to consistent top 10 programs, then it will always be low. For all the critics of the program, we have moved from a place of disaster six years ago where we hoped to win to a place where we expect to win. Disappointing season not withstanding, a lot of progress has been made on the floor. Not so much with the administration.
 

Coaches win with talent. That is why Tubby won at KU. I am not sure about the talent level at his other gigs but he never put together and maintained the level of talent needed to win big and often.

Bringing Tubby in set high expectations by the fans as everyone knew he won a Ring. And that he would be the one to raise the program to new highs not seen since Clem.

Tubby has had ample time to build a program capable of finishing in the top 3 in the BIG and a run at an Elite Eight spot or maybe even a Final Four. 62-46 rather than 46-62 is probably the minimal expectation from Tubby when he was hired six years ago. Next season does not look very bright either and getting to the NCAA seems like a huge task.

Sure there are shortcoming in the Gopher program, but my take is that Tubby has been exposed for what he is or what he isn't, IMO, he isn't a great college coach. He has not shown that he is capable of recruiting top shelf players and able to maintain and keep a roster intact with some of the players he did bring in.

Said that, I am not concerned about what the coaching community would say if Tubby gets axed. He had his chance here and didn't get it done and the future looks like more of the same or even less.

Get it done Teague.
 

I just don't see the Flip thing happening. Nothing in Teague's background suggests it and I think he's headed to the 'Wolves front office.
 



bailee88 said:
Changing coaches is not the answer. A variety of different coaches have not been successful here and the coaches that were successful cheated.
The answer is:
new practice facility
new or remodeled arena
private jet for recruiting(symbolic of a commitment to recruiting)

kentucky has a 28 million dollar apartment complex(Calipari sited this the last time he spoke to Tyus) for basketball players and the U can't even provide a place for players to work out in the off season.
Click to expand...

1) The first step toward a successful program has already been made. Woody has replaced Joel as AD! I can not overemphasize the importance of that.

2) With an AD in place that has a reputation for building programs, instead of destroying them, the chance a future coaching change working out is greatly enhanced.

3) I have seen several pro-Tubby supporters state that if there is a coaching change, that we will lose out on the "Big-3" local recruits because Tubby has done so much work recruiting them. I strongly disagree. If Tubby remains coach, I would be very surprised if even one of them commits to the Gophers. It's time to let Woody make his mark. Let him pick a new coach who excites the local kids. To do that though, Woody has to pick a known name. I'd say there's about a 1% chance that Shaka Smart would consider this job (and about a 75% chance he's coaching the Bruins next year). IMO, that leaves us with Flip as the main candidate. Does Flip excite the Big-3? ... I don't claim to know. But Flip has the highest winning percentage of not only the Twolves (.558), but also for the Pistons (.715 vs .659 for HOFer Larry Brown & .633 for HOFer Daley). Oh, and BTW Tyus ... Flip is a PG friendly coach.

The time is NOW!
 


Well FUUUUUUUCK ME...my logic is not Teague's logic. I think another multi-million dollar buy out isn't the answer after extending the year before. Should have fired Tubby after the NIT run.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
1. Money - $2.5 mil buyout added to loan from U will not happen. Bringing in new coach who would be better than Tubby will require big spending on young gun and that would throw Football coach salary out of balance (Tubby has National Champ and HOF Credentials to demand $2 mil per year vs. Kill be lowest paid in Big Ten). Need to give Kill a raise and soon.

2. History - Team just won an NCAA game for first time in 23 years (according to NCAA and official stats). Program is being run clean, going to NCAA 3 of 6 years and a victory this year...never happened in history of Gopher BB.

3. Facilities - our woeful facilities make it hard to pay buy out and ask for contributions. Our woeful facilities leave little to be desired for incoming coach. 85 year old arena that doesn't mean squat to most high school kids but is beloved by our geriatric fan base.

4. The What if factor...history tells us that firing a successful coach for a more successful coach isn't an automatic in MN. Far too often we have seen failure over the last 60 years with our coaching hires...so the devil you know always has to be considered...and for that reason, even if all the above weren't true...I think Teague rides Tubby for 2 more years (unless epic collapse next year) just to see if we can land one of the big three and if Tubby can bring in some fresh blood on the bench to improve our squad.
Click to expand...

Put in the Iowa tape. If that doesn't convince you, put in the Northwestern tape. If that doesn't convince you, put in the second Illinois game.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
Well FUUUUUUUCK ME...my logic is not Teague's logic. I think another multi-million dollar buy out isn't the answer after extending the year before. Should have fired Tubby after the NIT run.
Click to expand...

Your logic was just fine. The problem was that the thread should've been titled "Reasons why Tubby shouldn't be fired", and then it would've been spot-on. Never underestimate people's stupidity.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Your logic was just fine. The problem was that the thread should've been titled "Reasons why Tubby shouldn't be fired", and then it would've been spot-on. Never underestimate people's stupidity.
Click to expand...

I will trust the guy who hired Grant and Smart, knows basketball, and makes these decisions for a living over you.

You must have loved Maturi. We actually have an AD in place who is going to attempt to get us somewhere. Just like Wisconsin did. It's about time.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Your logic was just fine. The problem was that the thread should've been titled "Reasons why Tubby shouldn't be fired", and then it would've been spot-on. Never underestimate people's stupidity.
Click to expand...

I also think Teague is a little more plugged into what is really happening than anyone in this board.
 

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