Read a good post on OSU board regarding gimmick/up-tempo offenses & the CFP

[supadupafly]

Have to agree with this premise (see the original post below). I think the College Football Playoff format is going to benefit more often than not teams from more traditional pro-style offensive/defensive schemed conferences like the B1G. Imo, the old Top 2 teams only-BCS ranking system severely overrated gimmicky, high-scoring teams like Oregon, Auburn, Baylor, etc. In a 4 team (or perhaps 8 team someday) playoff format, I truly believe teams who are solid in "traditional" offensive line fundamentals/strength coupled with a bit of speed mixed in (a longtime hallmark of the B1G) & defensive line fundamentals (something I think the B1G is getting better at, but still has work to do) will win the CFP far more often than not.

During the CFP game, once Oregon got off-schedule on first & second down against a fundamentally strong OSU defensive line, and the Oregon D couldn't hold back a fundamentally strong OSU offensive line, you could quickly see they really were going to have zero chance to win the CFP championship. Teams like Baylor better take notice as well.


Below is the original post (appropriately titled "Sizzle without the Steak") from the Ohio State scout forum (Hineygate) I am referencing and I think makes a lot of sense:

"When are these talking heads going to finally realize that being the more physical team is what wins the big games? Year after year, they fall in love with the Oregon and Baylor offenses and their versions of spread and up tempo. It showed last night that power football wins in the end. Yes, we run a spread with some tempo, but it all starts with being physical at the point of attack in the running game. As Urb has said all along we are an offensive line driven program. After all these years, with all the evolution on offense, the team that blocks and tackles the best still wins. Nothing changes that simple fact.

Oregon gets all the media love but the better, more physical, better prepared team won last night. You don't win when it counts with decepton and chicanery, you win with physicality and skill. It doesn't take a genius to know that."

http://ohiostate.scout.com/forums/3154-hineygate/13570377-sizzle-without-the-steak?s=145

 

[EliteOpinionGuy]

It is this sentiment that keeps my hopes high with Jerry Kill leading our program. I think he best recruiting work so far (outside of stud recruit J. Jones) has been a very skilled, big, and complete offensive line. I also feel that there will be enough speed recruited in the coming years to have the offensive side of the ball where Jerry wants it in terms of talent. We all want a 5 star Cam Newton or Andrew Luck type of QB but I feel Jerry will be confident with any Qb that plays at Mitch's level this year or higher (Mitch was the bare minimum benchmark for Jerry's goals). Meaning, I think in Jerry's mind it goes something like this "As long as the QB play does not get any worse than it is, we have a chance". On D I think the coaching staff is in the process of making a top 15 caliber Defense within 3 years. We are slowly getting recruits that can choose other B1G schools but WANT to be here and that is a very big change from what he inherited. The future looks bright and I feel Jerry's style is exactly what the post above is suggesting as a more championship tested approach.

 

[Gopherdrummer]

The same argument of "better blocking and tackling wins big games" would apply to Oregon's offense as well. They didn't execute. Plain and simple. With the personnel they had and the type of team they were facing, Oregon is basically trying to score a TD every drive they have in the first quarter. The need their opponents to play catch up.

OSU showed the complete package because they play with tempo, but then they can slow the game way down and prevent a high powered offense from getting on the field. The Gophers have shown that they can be the more physical team, but once you drop a 3rd down pass, your defense is right back on the field. That was Oregon's problem. They force 4 turnovers and then follow it up by dropping passes to open receivers, and when their defense needed to take a break and get some rest, they had no idea how to slow the game down.

If anything, that game showed me that TCU could have been dangerous in the playoff. They play with speed but also got really physical at the end of the season to compliment it. I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing HUNH offenses change over the next few years to try and become a complete package. A lot of these teams are spreading the field to make up for a lack of skilled players.

 

[oleboy41]

Premise is silly. I don't like Oregon but they boat raced MSU and FSU, two top 5 teams with plenty of bulk up front. Baylor put plenty of points up on MSU as well, and TCU ran all over Oklahoma and Ole Miss. Yes winning in the trenches matters but it's not like tempo teams haven't done it and didn't do it plenty this year

 

[hungan1]

It is this sentiment that keeps my hopes high with Jerry Kill leading our program. I think he best recruiting work so far (outside of stud recruit J. Jones) has been a very skilled, big, and complete offensive line. I also feel that there will be enough speed recruited in the coming years to have the offensive side of the ball where Jerry wants it in terms of talent. We all want a 5 star Cam Newton or Andrew Luck type of QB but I feel Jerry will be confident with any Qb that plays at Mitch's level this year or higher (Mitch was the bare minimum benchmark for Jerry's goals). Meaning, I think in Jerry's mind it goes something like this "As long as the QB play does not get any worse than it is, we have a chance". On D I think the coaching staff is in the process of making a top 15 caliber Defense within 3 years. We are slowly getting recruits that can choose other B1G schools but WANT to be here and that is a very big change from what he inherited. The future looks bright and I feel Jerry's style is exactly what the post above is suggesting as a more championship tested approach.

I can't help it but be excited for the next four years with the 2015 OL recruit commitments, the stable of RS WR's, Jeff Jones/Rodney Smith/Jonathan Femi-Cole & other RBs, Leidner/Streveler/Perra/Croft at QB for the coming seasons.

The Gophers offense is not going to be uni-dimensional for sure.

Jerry Kill is a brick layer for sure. Let's hope he does the same due diligence in building up our defense.

 

[50PoundHead]

I somewhat agree with the sentiment from the Buckeye fan, but anything can happen in one game regardless of offensive schemes and physicality. The game has changed so much over the past couple of decades that has boosted the prospects of hyperdrive offenses like Oregon's (and all of Mouse Davis' disciples), but over the long run, solid I think solid fundamentals and physicality is the most consistent road to winning.

I think the thing the other night is that after stumbling on the first couple of Oregon drives (and a big break on the Oregon receiver dropping a huge pass), tOSU defense really showed its pure, raw talent. Wisconsin is a one-dimensional team, but tOSU completely dismantled them. I didn't see much of the Alabama game, but their defense did alright there as well. It's a tremendously talented defense.

I like what Kill is doing. We just need a little injection of athleticism and we'll be fine.

 

[MNfootballfan]

Premise is silly. I don't like Oregon but they boat raced MSU and FSU, two top 5 teams with plenty of bulk up front. Baylor put plenty of points up on MSU as well, and TCU ran all over Oklahoma and Ole Miss. Yes winning in the trenches matters but it's not like tempo teams haven't done it and didn't do it plenty this year

My thoughts exactly. What about up-tempo is a gimmick? It is basically telling the defense don't substitute, just line up and play. If they are using the premise that Oregon lost to Ohio St as the measuring stick then pro-style offenses don't work either. You don't get much more pro-style/traditional than Alabama.

My thoughts, it doesn't matter if you run no-huddle, wishbone, split veer, pro-style, etc. If you have better players that are coached correctly you will win. I've attended close to 20 coaching clinics over the last ten years, and the common thread is every play works on paper, but football is about Jimmy's and Joe's not X's and O's.

 

[oleboy41]

My thoughts exactly. What about up-tempo is a gimmick? It is basically telling the defense don't substitute, just line up and play. If they are using the premise that Oregon lost to Ohio St as the measuring stick then pro-style offenses don't work either. You don't get much more pro-style/traditional than Alabama.

My thoughts, it doesn't matter if you run no-huddle, wishbone, split veer, pro-style, etc. If you have better players that are coached correctly you will win. I've attended close to 20 coaching clinics over the last ten years, and the common thread is every play works on paper, but football is about Jimmy's and Joe's not X's and O's.

Yep. And if the talent is near equal it's simply about execution. OSU out executed Oregon in the trenches as they got to the second level, took good angles and held their blocks. They also out coached them as Oregon was determined to limit the big play over the top and OSU was able to consistently run in between the tackles out of 11 and 12 personel. People forget that Oregon's offense is truly built on running between the tackles and that's what gets them going. The question is how do you develop that run game when you can't recruit the up front talent of the USC's Bama's and OSU's of the world when you're trying to beat those teams for titles and Oregon used tempo. Instead of manhandling DLs they use tempo to wear them out and inside zones to get good angles for their run game and then option off it and use deception to get guys out of position. Its not all that dissimilar from Mason using pulls and cut blocks to make up for his lack of OL bulk

 

[scher215]

I will always 100% believe football is won or lost on the offensive and defensive lines. I very much agree with that aspect of the argument. Whoever wins those battles, will typically win the game. If you can protect with 5 and then get pressure with 4. You will be a very tough team to beat.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

I can't help it but be excited for the next four years with the 2015 OL recruit commitments, the stable of RS WR's, Jeff Jones/Rodney Smith/Jonathan Femi-Cole & other RBs, Leidner/Streveler/Perra/Croft at QB for the coming seasons.

The Gophers offense is not going to be uni-dimensional for sure.

Jerry Kill is a brick layer for sure. Let's hope he does the same due diligence in building up our defense.

Love the optimism, and given Kill's success on defense and special teams thus far I trust that we will soon have a strong run and pass attack. However, I guess I am not sure what you have seen from the WRs and QBs on next year's roster thus far that makes you excited for them (other than general trust in Kill and staff's evaluation and development abilities, which I share).

 

[MNfootballfan]

Yep. And if the talent is near equal it's simply about execution. OSU out executed Oregon in the trenches as they got to the second level, took good angles and held their blocks. They also out coached them as Oregon was determined to limit the big play over the top and OSU was able to consistently run in between the tackles out of 11 and 12 personel. People forget that Oregon's offense is truly built on running between the tackles and that's what gets them going. The question is how do you develop that run game when you can't recruit the up front talent of the USC's Bama's and OSU's of the world when you're trying to beat those teams for titles and Oregon used tempo. Instead of manhandling DLs they use tempo to wear them out and inside zones to get good angles for their run game and then option off it and use deception to get guys out of position. Its not all that dissimilar from Mason using pulls and cut blocks to make up for his lack of OL bulk

You're a smart man!

 

[414GopherFan]

The talent of Ohio st & Oregon is no where near equal. Ohio st recruits at a much higher level and has way more NFL guys & early round picks at that. The "Hurry Up" offense is used by teams with less talent to try to neutralize the talent gap. Teams like Bama.FSU.Ohio st etc dont have to use the hurry up cause there usually more talented than the teams they line up against. The type of talent you have obviously dictates your scheme.

 

[hungan1]

Love the optimism, and given Kill's success on defense and special teams thus far I trust that we will soon have a strong run and pass attack. However, I guess I am not sure what you have seen from the WRs and QBs on next year's roster thus far that makes you excited for them (other than general trust in Kill and staff's evaluation and development abilities, which I share).

Experience aside, the stable of receivers for next year potentially can give us legitimate passing game.

Of course, we have to see how the OL play goes.

Leidner has another year of experience at QB, and hopefully improves year after year. Like him or not, he is who we have until one of the backups can make a push to surpass him for the starting spot in the coming practices.

Leidner playing well enough has allowed a semblance of stability at QB. Those behind him better take the time to mature and develop, or bug out like DRM. Demry Croft has to be smiling broadly.

For now, I'd say in Kill we trust that we he says the team's potential for next season is true. They better be good because the Gophers have one of the toughest schedule I have seen in a long time.