Re: Maverick

Donate To GopherHole
MinneStoa

MinneStoa

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2010
Messages
3,081
Reaction score
217
Points
63
Re: Maverick

Before the board blows up about how Maverick should be our starting PG after his performance tonight (much like many people did when Colt played well in the B10 Tourney, or the constant Nolen/Joseph banter from last year, or when RS3 has a bad game and people want him benched), can we just say that none of us should think we know with any sort of confidence who should be our starter?

Let's just settle on the fact that it's wonderful that we have 3 suitable PG candidates and we can ride the hot hand as it comes. Maverick played well tonight, but will have bad games. Welch had a bad game tonight, but will have good ones. Dre Hollins was a relative non-factor tonight, but will have big games.

The game was ugly at points, but we showed a few flashes of a pretty damn good team.
 

Maverick is not a Big 10 point guard, I don't think you have to worry about the board blowing up.
 

Maverick did play well. That's good to see. He showed confidence in his shooting and driving the lane. So did Rodney. Good games by both. However if this team can only make about half of their ft's at home, it's going to be a long season.
 

Not a chance, but he has proved to be a solid back up, which we could really used last year. The year under his belt has served him well, he is the most improved player no question.

I still see Andre as the #1, Welch needs to take care of the ball & is not much of a threat.
 

EG#9 said:
Maverick is not a Big 10 point guard, I don't think you have to worry about the board blowing up.
Click to expand...

False. He plays for the Gophers who are in the Big 10.
 


EG#9
"Maverick is not a Big 10 point guard, I don't think you have to worry about the board blowing up."

How can you say that? Because of how he played as a freshmen who was forced to be thrown in the fire? I tend to be pretty pessimistic about the Gophs but that's just stupid. Give the kid a chance.
 

This was the first time that I saw Welch play and, for one night, Mav looked better.
 

Mav was the catalyst of the comeback last night. But, if or not he can duplicate the performance against a better competition (including a legit Big Ten guard) remains to be seen.

Nevertheless, I was happy for him and us as we need another point guard who can give us some solid minutes with better understanding of the system.
 

GoFerit said:
Mav was the catalyst of the comeback last night. But, if or not he can duplicate the performance against a better competition (including a legit Big Ten guard) remains to be seen.

Nevertheless, I was happy for him and us as we need another point guard who can give us some solid minutes with better understanding of the system.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you gotta give the kid his due. He played well.
 



Why does there have to be a caveat to giving the kid props when he balls well? All the grief he takes on these forums, he deserves to get some credit for once when he provides the solid play he did last game. Of course we don't know if he'll continue to get better, but right now, give it to him, he provided some real quality minutes. And it's not the first time he's done it either.
 

Monty519 said:
Why does there have to be a caveat to giving the kid props when he balls well? All the grief he takes on these forums, he deserves to get some credit for once when he provides the solid play he did last game. Of course we don't know if he'll continue to get better, but right now, give it to him, he provided some real quality minutes. And it's not the first time he's done it either.
Click to expand...

Mav is what he is. A solid back up point on a high major team. He will never wow anyone and that is not his job. His job is to eat some minutes, run the offense and not make mistakes. For a guy as limited as he is from a size and speed standpoint, he does well. Relying on a freshman point will require a guy like Mav in the transition. He is not the best on the team, but he is a valuable part of it. We need him.
 

Even though I take what Tubby says about his players (continual positive comments regarding Maverick) with a grain of salt, maybe Maverick just needs his confidence to build. Tubby knows Mav better than anyone around here, so last night might just be a large step in the right direction for Mav.
Let's hope we see similar improvement in Elliot Elliason as this team is going to need some quality minutes from him as the season goes along. The potential loss of Mo Walker should give EE the opportunity to spell Trevor and or Ralph. Hope he is up to it. It's beginning to look like Colton Iverson leaving could be a problem that isn't easily fixed.
 

I'll give Mav his credit. That was the best I've seen him play. That was also the first time I saw Welch play. I know it was just 1 game but Mav looks bettehr then Welch to me.
 



Re: Colt

MinneStoa said:
Before the board blows up about how Maverick should be our starting PG after his performance tonight (much like many people did when Colt played well in the B10 Tourney)

Who was asking Colt to be our PG?
Click to expand...
 


Holy Man said:
Mav is what he is. A solid back up point on a high major team. He will never wow anyone and that is not his job. His job is to eat some minutes, run the offense and not make mistakes. For a guy as limited as he is from a size and speed standpoint, he does well. Relying on a freshman point will require a guy like Mav in the transition. He is not the best on the team, but he is a valuable part of it. We need him.
Click to expand...

We do need him. Even worse we need someone to get a level that is well above him in order to be successful. If Hollins or Welch can do that then we will be in good shape. The article in the Prioneer Press this morning quotes Tubby as saying that there are 50 options in this offense and that it is very complicated. With 50 options- yeah I'd say it is. This really reveals to me why it takes guys a long time for our guys to stop looking tentative. A program that runs an offense and defense as complicated as ours needs to have continuity - lots and lots of 4 year players that graduate. So I can see how the turnover has really hurt.

I really wonder if, in this instant gratification era if you can get enough high end players to run systems like this. Considering that your best players are gone in 2-3 years and they are thinking in terms of advancing quickly, this is surely tough on recruiting as well. Other coaches, recruiting against us, are certainly telling players that Tubby will develop them more slowly in his systems. Most kids don't want to hear that - certainly none of the "top 50" do.

Kudos to Mav for picking the system up and making the most of the ability he has.
 

I think you are buying the stuff that Tubby dispenses to the reporters, beej. After four years, Tubby's system doesn't look like a 50 option offense. Not even close. I'm not a coach and didn't play organized ball past 10th grade, but his system looks predictable and easy to defend. Last night in the second half there was one posession where there was a nice interior pass to Trevor followed by a back door cut to the basket by Ralph and an easy stuff. I turned to my friend and said, "That really looked like a play! Something that other teams run against us." It was remarkable because we don't see posessions like that often.

I don't mean to take away from Mav's excellent game. But Tubby's quote doesn't line up with what we see on the court.
 

jamiche said:
I think you are buying the stuff that Tubby dispenses to the reporters, beej. After four years, Tubby's system doesn't look like a 50 option offense. Not even close. I'm not a coach and didn't play organized ball past 10th grade, but his system looks predictable and easy to defend. Last night in the second half there was one posession where there was a nice interior pass to Trevor followed by a back door cut to the basket by Ralph and an easy stuff. I turned to my friend and said, "That really looked like a play! Something that other teams run against us." It was remarkable because we don't see posessions like that often.

I don't mean to take away from Mav's excellent game. But Tubby's quote doesn't line up with what we see on the court.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you- we don't see it on the court. Qualifier is that offensive movement has been a little better this year. I take Tubby at this word that there are 50 options. I just don't think players in a fast paced game that emphasizes athleticism and quick decisions are able to execute anything on the order of a 50 option offense. Certainly there is no way a freshman point guard can do it. 50 otpions are not processable in a short amount of time.

You watch teams with top young recruits playing and a lot of the offense looks to be one player breaking down another to create opportunity. I see guys on our team that have ability to do it- but rarely do they try. It looks like they are more afraid to fail then determined to make a play. Guys like Armelin and Westbrook have seemed to take matters in their own hands, come what may. Often that paves a path to the bench.
 

Prior to thes tart of the season, we have been under the impression that the PG will likely be shared by Hollins and Welch with Mav the guy on the outside. And that may still be the way this season shakes out.

However, it appears that Mav has the ability to bring it. A year of experience always helps and that is something lacking with Hollins and Welch.

I expect a lot of inconsistent play at the PG from all three. Lets hope that one of the three can settle in on a given night and be the man and not turn into the situation we had last year.
 

i thought Mav played really well and am glad to see it anytime. I was not very positive in my thoughts and words towards his game after watching him in Howard Pulley and early last year. He is making the staff look like they are pretty good coaches if he keeps improving at this pace. And good for him and the Gophers if he does.

I have heard Tubby's offense described as a "read and react motion" offense in the past. With that, you might have 50 options with only a few sets and they are all dependant on what the defense does. I think it takes playing with the same guys for quite awhile so they are all thinking the same thing. (Which might explain some of the 5 man substitution patterns, especially early in the year)
 

jamiche said:
I think you are buying the stuff that Tubby dispenses to the reporters, beej. After four years, Tubby's system doesn't look like a 50 option offense. Not even close. I'm not a coach and didn't play organized ball past 10th grade, but his system looks predictable and easy to defend. Last night in the second half there was one posession where there was a nice interior pass to Trevor followed by a back door cut to the basket by Ralph and an easy stuff. I turned to my friend and said, "That really looked like a play! Something that other teams run against us." It was remarkable because we don't see posessions like that often.

I don't mean to take away from Mav's excellent game. But Tubby's quote doesn't line up with what we see on the court.
Click to expand...

jamiche, you are one of those negative posters that I was talking about. I have been saying this and I say it again. Tubby preaches easy baskets. That's a part of his game plan. The reason that we havn't seen it much lately was not because he didn't want to do it it was becasue he didn't have the players to do it. I don't blame you for these negative posts. You have not seen what this man can do as a coach. Only time will tell. For now you will posts your negative posts regardless of how the Gophers do. Even if Gophers get to the final four, you guys will come here and say, this is what I am talking about like you made the plays for the team.

Go Gophers
 

I am not totally convinced on Mav YET. BUT, I will say he is quite a bit ahead of ARob at similar stages in their careers --- and ARob turned out to be my Fav PG of this millennium. But I will defer to Mikie on the PG subject --- wherever he is.
 

Minnesconsin fan said:
i thought Mav played really well and am glad to see it anytime. I was not very positive in my thoughts and words towards his game after watching him in Howard Pulley and early last year. He is making the staff look like they are pretty good coaches if he keeps improving at this pace. And good for him and the Gophers if he does.

I have heard Tubby's offense described as a "read and react motion" offense in the past. With that, you might have 50 options with only a few sets and they are all dependant on what the defense does. I think it takes playing with the same guys for quite awhile so they are all thinking the same thing. (Which might explain some of the 5 man substitution patterns, especially early in the year)
Click to expand...

If that really is the case, and I haven't seen any evidence of it on the court, then Tubby needs to overhaul his system because it is the very rare exception that groups of guys stay together for three or four consecutive years.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
jamiche, you are one of those negative posters that I was talking about. I have been saying this and I say it again. Tubby preaches easy baskets. That's a part of his game plan. The reason that we havn't seen it much lately was not because he didn't want to do it it was becasue he didn't have the players to do it. I don't blame you for these negative posts. You have not seen what this man can do as a coach. Only time will tell. For now you will posts your negative posts regardless of how the Gophers do. Even if Gophers get to the final four, you guys will come here and say, this is what I am talking about like you made the plays for the team.

Go Gophers
Click to expand...

No, not really. Most of us on the board don't have blinders on. It took some people longer than others to figure out that Monson wasn't going to be able to get it done. When good things happen, I'm thrilled and I acknowledge it. Tubby is in his fifth year and is being compensated at an elite level. His performance hasn't matched his compensation, not even close. Last year it appeared that it was all coming together. I said after the Thanksgiving tournament that this was the best team since '97 and that it could end up in the FF. Didn't happen. Some of it was injuries, some of it was dysfunction and some of it was a failure to adapt to circumstances. Unlike the NBA, coaches have the control in college ball. The record is what it is, and Tubby owns it.
 

I don't like Mav at all. He can score some, but he is not a great defender and he lacks court vision. I think he is the third best option at point right now.
 

I have seen the Gopher play 2X , Thursday will be 3, so maybe I should wait for the tie-breaker. But the Gophers' best point guard is:

Or was: Against Augie: Welch, then Austin, then Dre, then Mav.
Against SDSU: Mav, then Austin, then Dre, then Welch.
Tomorrow night I predict the best point guard will be Austin, then Welch, then Dre, then Mav.

On average: Austin 2+2+1, then Welch 1+4+2, then Dre 3+3+3, the Mav 4+1+4. Scientific proof (i.e. using numbers), but of course also with a little prognostication a la the Great Karnac.
 

jamiche said:
If that really is the case, and I haven't seen any evidence of it on the court, then Tubby needs to overhaul his system because it is the very rare exception that groups of guys stay together for three or four consecutive years.
Click to expand...

I am not quite as down on Tubby as you- but I have had my doubts for sure. Last night I was watching one of the two big games, I think MSU/Duke and they were talking about the coaches. One of the commentators (Bilas?) stated that all of the great coaches have shown the ability to change over time to fit their players and changes in the game. This to me is Tubby's blind spot, the determination to stay with one system- albeit a system that has at times had great success. I remember last year in the midst of the downfall Tubby being asked about the system and he stated that he wasn't going to change something that had worked for over 20 years- or something to that effect. There is always the other side of the coin- we saw in Gopher football where we had a coach that would change assistants and core systems with the change in the wind direction. That's not so good either.
 

Mav is the only one of our converted point guards who made point guard plays in the half court that I have seen. I think dre Hollins is going to be a great guard someday, pg only time will tell. Welch has a Andre Miller type physique and I hope his foot heals. All three of these guys primarily played off the ball in high school and mostly played pg part time. You can tell.

I am not saying we are doomed or anything but I wonder if any of them can bring the ball up the court against Aaron Craft?

I would have preferred Tubby recruit a true pg. Someone who may be undersized who may not be a huge scorer, but someone who knows how to lead vocally. Someone who can throw a pass into the post. Someone who has been his high school teams primary ball handler his entire career.
 

Minnesconsin fan said:
i thought Mav played really well and am glad to see it anytime. I was not very positive in my thoughts and words towards his game after watching him in Howard Pulley and early last year. He is making the staff look like they are pretty good coaches if he keeps improving at this pace. And good for him and the Gophers if he does.

I have heard Tubby's offense described as a "read and react motion" offense in the past. With that, you might have 50 options with only a few sets and they are all dependant on what the defense does. I think it takes playing with the same guys for quite awhile so they are all thinking the same thing. (Which might explain some of the 5 man substitution patterns, especially early in the year)
Click to expand...

Sounds similar to the triangle that the Lakers run. A system where you need smart players to run as they have about 50 options everytime they touch the ball.
 

march madness said:
Mav is the only one of our converted point guards who made point guard plays in the half court that I have seen. I think dre Hollins is going to be a great guard someday, pg only time will tell. Welch has a Andre Miller type physique and I hope his foot heals. All three of these guys primarily played off the ball in high school and mostly played pg part time. You can tell.

I am not saying we are doomed or anything but I wonder if any of them can bring the ball up the court against Aaron Craft?

I would have preferred Tubby recruit a true pg. Someone who may be undersized who may not be a huge scorer, but someone who knows how to lead vocally. Someone who can throw a pass into the post. Someone who has been his high school teams primary ball handler his entire career.
Click to expand...
Andre did play PG his senior year, but i get what you're saying.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom