Ranked 15th in 3PT% in Country, 308th for FT%

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Lakers612

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http://bigtennetwork.stats.com/cbk/teamstats.asp?team=0363&report=teamhome

Points: 79.4 (23)
Rebounds: 11.3 (156)
Assists: 19.7 (1)
FG%: 48.0% (43)
FT%: 62.3% (308)
3P%: 41.9% (15)



We have all seen our #1 Assist stat, but I think how we shoot the 3 and and free throws will determine our success in the Big 10. Obviously shooting 41.9% from beyond the arc is stellar and certainly good enough to make us an elite scoring team. But only making 13% more shots from the free throw line is just unexplainable at this point.
 

Lakers612 said:
http://bigtennetwork.stats.com/cbk/teamstats.asp?team=0363&report=teamhome

Points: 79.4 (23)
Rebounds: 11.3 (156)
Assists: 19.7 (1)
FG%: 48.0% (43)
FT%: 62.3% (308)
3P%: 41.9% (15)



We have all seen our #1 Assist stat, but I think how we shoot the 3 and and free throws will determine our success in the Big 10. Obviously shooting 41.9% from beyond the arc is stellar and certainly good enough to make us an elite scoring team. But only making 13% more shots from the free throw line is just unexplainable at this point.
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We've shot 72% from the line the last 4 games. We got off to a rough start but I don't think we are as bad as our current percentage up to this point.
 

Yeah, at least we have been getting better. If we end up shooting 62% at the line in B1G games, it'll cost us several games. (Just like our FT shooting arguably was the difference between winning and losing vs St. John's). This team needs to shoot well to win, and that includes not giving away an inordinate number of points at the line.
 

I believe we are also 3rd in the nation in steals per game behind West Virginia and Louisville.

It's hard to believe that guys like Hollins, Mason, and Mathieu can shoot the three ball so well and not shoot free throws in the mid-80%'s. It has to be a mental focus problem.
 

GibsonSG said:
I believe we are also 3rd in the nation in steals per game behind West Virginia and Louisville.

It's hard to believe that guys like Hollins, Mason, and Mathieu can shoot the three ball so well and not shoot free throws in the mid-80%'s. It has to be a mental focus problem.
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You act like shooting 80%+ is such an easy thing to do. Only 9 players total shot 80%+ in the big ten last year, Hollins was one of them.
 


WanderingGopher said:
Yeah, at least we have been getting better. If we end up shooting 62% at the line in B1G games, it'll cost us several games. (Just like our FT shooting arguably was the difference between winning and losing vs St. John's). This team needs to shoot well to win, and that includes not giving away an inordinate number of points at the line.
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Nope. Not even close.

BTW, in the St. John's game Minnesota could have made all their FT's and still wouldn't have caught up to 'em (lost by 9, missed 7 FT's). St. John's went 59.5% from the line - missing 15 shots!! And you think Minnesota's free throw shooting was the difference between winning and losing? Sheesh.

EVERYTHING was the difference. St. John's shot better from the field, turned it over less, had a higher OR%, and got to the line more often. Minnesota's free throw shooting was the least of it's worries.

Gophers could have shot the NCAA average on free throws that game.. would have meant two flippin points.

People love to exaggerate the importance of free throw %, but this claim is flat out ridiculous.
 

Lakers612 said:
http://bigtennetwork.stats.com/cbk/teamstats.asp?team=0363&report=teamhome

Points: 79.4 (23)
Rebounds: 11.3 (156)
Assists: 19.7 (1)
FG%: 48.0% (43)
FT%: 62.3% (308)
3P%: 41.9% (15)



We have all seen our #1 Assist stat, but I think how we shoot the 3 and and free throws will determine our success in the Big 10. Obviously shooting 41.9% from beyond the arc is stellar and certainly good enough to make us an elite scoring team. But only making 13% more shots from the free throw line is just unexplainable at this point.
Click to expand...

I'll mention this again. The best indicators for winning basketball are rebounds and turnovers. Take a look at where we rank in rebounding (and we've be playing bottom dwellers lately) and get a good indication of the struggles we may face during the B1G season.

It's great that we are #1 in assists and #15 in 3 pt %. That happens when you play North Dakota and Southern...not the two defensive juggernauts of the land. Keep an eye on our turnovers and rebounding. They will tell you whether we are a team going to the dance or a team standing on the outside looking in.
 

GibsonSG said:
I believe we are also 3rd in the nation in steals per game behind West Virginia and Louisville.

It's hard to believe that guys like Hollins, Mason, and Mathieu can shoot the three ball so well and not shoot free throws in the mid-80%'s. It has to be a mental focus problem.
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Mathieu isn't even that good of a 3 point shooter....
 




tinyarch said:
I'll mention this again. The best indicators for winning basketball are rebounds and turnovers.
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1) The best indicator is shooting (i.e., effective field goal percentage). It's not even close. Rebounding and turnovers are down the list.
2) What does "rebounds" mean to you? How do you (personally) look at rebounds / measure them?
 

Gopher Warrior said:
BTW, in the St. John's game Minnesota could have made all their FT's and still wouldn't have caught up to 'em (lost by 9, missed 7 FT's).
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Maybe I'm thinking of Georgia or Louisville vis a vis our terrible FT shooting, but the fact remains, you can't simply say "they lost by x and only missed y free throws, so it didn't matter." The end of a game could play out completely differently if a few FTs were made earlier in the game. (Maybe no need to intentionally foul and have the final score inflate, no need to take desperate shots, etc.)

Say you get to the 4 minute mark of a game, and you've shot 20 FTs and only made 60% as opposed to making, say, 75%. That's a 3 point difference. Which, in a close game, is huge. It completely changes the complexion of the last 4 minutes.

Also, saying they "only missed y free throws" doesn't take into account the front end of one and ones. I'm surprised there's not some advanced stat for that, like effective Free Throw percentage.
 





WanderingGopher said:
Maybe I'm thinking of Georgia or Louisville vis a vis our terrible FT shooting, but the fact remains, you can't simply say "they lost by x and only missed y free throws, so it didn't matter." The end of a game could play out completely differently if a few FTs were made earlier in the game. (Maybe no need to intentionally foul and have the final score inflate, no need to take desperate shots, etc.)

Say you get to the 4 minute mark of a game, and you've shot 20 FTs and only made 60% as opposed to making, say, 75%. That's a 3 point difference. Which, in a close game, is huge. It completely changes the complexion of the last 4 minutes.

Also, saying they "only missed y free throws" doesn't take into account the front end of one and ones. I'm surprised there's not some advanced stat for that, like effective Free Throw percentage.
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+1. Summed up my thoughts better than I could have.
 

...also, at the risk of sounding like Bobby Knight with all this free throw talk -- once you are standing on the line, it's the one and only thing in basketball that's completely, 100% within your control to execute at a high level. Your opponent can do nothing to stop those points from going on the board. That is why a bunch of FT misses drive coaches crazy.

Now let's talk about pump fakes. :cool:
 

GibsonSG said:
I believe we are also 3rd in the nation in steals per game behind West Virginia and Louisville.

It's hard to believe that guys like Hollins, Mason, and Mathieu can shoot the three ball so well and not shoot free throws in the mid-80%'s. It has to be a mental focus problem.
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Hollins has shot 80% or higher in his first three years. It's way too early to be too concerned with these three guys. Hollins has only shot 21 FT's so far, Mathieu 31, and Mason 25.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
1) The best indicator is shooting (i.e., effective field goal percentage). It's not even close. Rebounding and turnovers are down the list.
2) What does "rebounds" mean to you? How do you (personally) look at rebounds / measure them?
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Really? A team gets off 10 shots in a game and shoots 100% on those shots. Do they win? No chance. Shooting percent only matters if you are getting up enough shots. Offensive rebounds shows how many extra attempts a team was able to get. Defensive rebounds shows how few attempts a team allowed. Now combine that stat with number of turnovers and you get an excellent indicator as to how much time a team had control and possession of the ball.

Field goal percentage, by itself is not a primary indicator of the outcome of the game as I demonstrated with my first comments. It does not mean that FG% isn't important to look at, but it means that it isn't the primary stat you are looking at to indicate which team won the game.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Hollins has shot 80% or higher in his first three years. It's way too early to be too concerned with these three guys. Hollins has only shot 21 FT's so far, Mathieu 31, and Mason 25.
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You have to attack the rim and get fouled in order to take shots. Without looking at the stats, I would guess that Morris is leading in FT's taken.
 

tinyarch said:
Really? A team gets off 10 shots in a game and shoots 100% on those shots. Do they win? No chance. Shooting percent only matters if you are getting up enough shots. Offensive rebounds shows how many extra attempts a team was able to get. Defensive rebounds shows how few attempts a team allowed. Now combine that stat with number of turnovers and you get an excellent indicator as to how much time a team had control and possession of the ball.

Field goal percentage, by itself is not a primary indicator of the outcome of the game as I demonstrated with my first comments. It does not mean that FG% isn't important to look at, but it means that it isn't the primary stat you are looking at to indicate which team won the game.
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Nope. Sorry, but the data is there. Get your favorite statistics software program and go for it. You'll see effective field goal percentage is what matters most. It's not even close and it's not at all a debate. You're just wrong.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Nope. Sorry, but the data is there. Get your favorite statistics software program and go for it. You'll see effective field goal percentage is what matters most. It's not even close and it's not at all a debate. You're just wrong.
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May I ask a question. What, in your world, is the difference between field goal percentage and "effective" field goal percentage. I'm not familiar with your phraseology. My argument has been based upon field goal percentage. I'd like to see your data that backs up your comments. I can show mine using any espn box score.
 

tinyarch said:
May I ask a question. What, in your world, is the difference between field goal percentage and "effective" field goal percentage. I'm not familiar with your phraseology. My argument has been based upon field goal percentage. I'd like to see your data that backs up your comments. I can show mine using any espn box score.
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eFG% = (FGM + (0.5 x 3PTM)) / FGA

It's a field goal percentage that takes into account that 3 pointers are worth 50% more points.
 

afurry91 said:
eFG% = (FGM + (0.5 x 3PTM)) / FGA

It's a field goal percentage that takes into account that 3 pointers are worth 50% more points.
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Thanks furry.

Anyone else wonder who the geeksniff was who was pounding tequila while playing tetris and said, "D@mn, if I jsut take the formuma FGM + (0.5 x 3PTM)/FGA, I can predick the winner without looking at the D@mn score..." (misspelled words there for drunken effect) :drink:
 

15th in 3PT% and 308th in FT%? The solution is simple: take our free throws from behind the three point line.
 

tinyarch said:
Anyone else wonder who the geeksniff was who was pounding tequila while playing tetris and said, "D@mn, if I jsut take the formuma FGM + (0.5 x 3PTM)/FGA, I can predick the winner without looking at the D@mn score..." (misspelled words there for drunken effect) :drink:
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Somebody one hell of a lot smarter than you, for starters, Jock Sniffer. Stick to the Bible. At least you have the verses memorized.
 


afurry91 said:
eFG% = (FGM + (0.5 x 3PTM)) / FGA

It's a field goal percentage that takes into account that 3 pointers are worth 50% more points.
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I prefer True Shooting Percentage myself as that measure also includes free throw shooting.
 

GopherJake said:
Somebody one hell of a lot smarter than you, for starters, Jock Sniffer. Stick to the Bible. At least you have the verses memorized.
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And now everyone knows why I referenced you in a different topic post. Thanks GJ.
 

Weighted field Goal Percentage is a more accurate measure of shooting ability since effective shooting percentage counts 3 pointers twice

(FT x (3/9)) + ((FG – 3ptFG) x (6/9)) + (3pt FG)

—————————————————— x 100 = Weighted Field Goal %

(FTA x (3/9)) + ((FGA – 3pt FGA) x (6/9) + (3pt FGA)

With effective shooting percentage you can get over 100%. Which is not possible with weighted Since shots and makes are only used once and are weighted to their overall value.

Still desn't matter is the team you are facing get off more shots than you by outrebounding you, turning you over and not committing turnovers themselves. See Wisconsin Badgers.

I could also argue that PPR (points per possession) would be more effective than Shooting percentages in determining the winner. Generally the team averaging more possessions with a higher PPR is always going to win, unless your defense is beastly.
 

So in laymen's terms...possessions matter. The easiest way for any "non-geek" or "pencil head" to quickly determine who had the most possessions in a game is to look in the ESPN box score and see who had the least turnovers and the most rebounds. Thank you, Otis, for making my point (even if it may have been inadvertently).
 

tinyarch said:
So in laymen's terms...possessions matter. The easiest way for any "non-geek" or "pencil head" to quickly determine who had the most possessions in a game is to look in the ESPN box score and see who had the least turnovers and the most rebounds. Thank you, Otis, for making my point (even if it may have been inadvertently).
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Good grief. No. Possessions don't matter. What you do with possessions matter. The most important thing you can do to win basketball games is to make field goal attempts (effective field goal percentage).

The other things you can do with a possession are turn it over, go to the free throw line or miss a shot and the other team gets the ball. Those three things (turnovers, rebounds and especially free throw trips) are not nearly as important as the other factor --- effective field goal percentage.

Tempo, or possessions aren't what matters. It's a style issue, not one of efficiency. Each team has approximately the same number of possessions in a basketball game... duuuuuuuh. Use that mind a little my friend.
 

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