Question regarding Cretin and the ACT test

Donate To GopherHole
S

STPGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
10,561
Reaction score
3,781
Points
113
Does it surprise anyone else that a soon to be Cretin graduate would struggle with meeting the NCAA requirements regarding the ACT? I thought that would be why one would attend Cretin. I was under the impression that the classes were smaller and that students got more individual attention/ tutoring.
 

If Seantrel gets national attention it's good publicity for the school. Put 2 & 2 together...
 

STPGopher said:
Does it surprise anyone else that a soon to be Cretin graduate would struggle with meeting the NCAA requirements regarding the ACT? I thought that would be why one would attend Cretin. I was under the impression that the classes were smaller and that students got more individual attention/ tutoring.
Click to expand...

Anyone can struggle with a decent ACT score...I am one of them. I am a horrible standardized test taker, and always will be. I had a girlfriend in highschool that got straight A's through all of school, and was actually talking to Columbia - they were very interested in her. (Smart girl, very involved, minority, top 1% of our 600 person class), until she took her ACT. I believe she took it twice and score an 18 both times.

She now has gone on to get her BSB and MBA, and a great job - one can just be a bad test taker. I'm not excusing getting scores like 12's on your ACT, but I think it's only one indicator of intelligence. If CSOM went on my GMAT score...I'd be flipping burgers right now, and I had class sizes of about 15 at a private school until I went to high school.
 

magpie said:
If Seantrel gets national attention it's good publicity for the school. Put 2 & 2 together...
Click to expand...

Sarcasm? Or do you really think that CDH really wants the reputation nationally that its player athletes aren't intelligent enough to get a passing score on the ACT?
 

GopherLady said:
Anyone can struggle with a decent ACT score...I am one of them. I am a horrible standardized test taker, and always will be. I had a girlfriend in highschool that got straight A's through all of school, and was actually talking to Columbia - they were very interested in her. (Smart girl, very involved, minority, top 1% of our 600 person class), until she took her ACT. I believe she took it twice and score an 18 both times.

She now has gone on to get her BSB and MBA, and a great job - one can just be a bad test taker. I'm not excusing getting scores like 12's on your ACT, but I think it's only one indicator of intelligence. If CSOM went on my GMAT score...I'd be flipping burgers right now, and I had class sizes of about 15 at a private school until I went to high school.
Click to expand...

GL, was your friend jetsetting around the country flirting with college athletic programs? I think this is much deeper. Seems to me like this kid was pushed to achieve the wrong goals in life by a father figure who seems jaw-droppingly pathetic and worthless as a hero figure. The whole rap career garbage just screams bad news about that guy.
 


right, blame the high school because the kid is struggling in school. wow...
 

When does SH go to class? He's always flying around visiting schools, playing All-Star games, and appearing on TV shows. When deos this kid actually go to class? Back in my day, that number of absences would not be tolerated regardless of who you are.

If he is indeed struggling to get qualified, one would think he would take his studies a little more seriously instead of parading around the country with a father living vicariously throug him....
 

GopherLady said:
Anyone can struggle with a decent ACT score...I am one of them. I am a horrible standardized test taker, and always will be. I had a girlfriend in highschool that got straight A's through all of school, and was actually talking to Columbia - they were very interested in her. (Smart girl, very involved, minority, top 1% of our 600 person class), until she took her ACT. I believe she took it twice and score an 18 both times.

She now has gone on to get her BSB and MBA, and a great job - one can just be a bad test taker. I'm not excusing getting scores like 12's on your ACT, but I think it's only one indicator of intelligence. If CSOM went on my GMAT score...I'd be flipping burgers right now, and I had class sizes of about 15 at a private school until I went to high school.
Click to expand...

I do appreciate your testimony, as that is part of what I asked. I also understand that many can struggle with standardized tests. The reason I asked specifically about Cretin is typically the reason parents send their children to the likes of Cretin, STA, SPA, Breck, Shattuck St. Mary's.... is so that they are well prepared for such tests. I just find it odd that in the end, it may make little to no difference. Especially since this is usually one of their selling points to the potential students parents.
 

MNBadgerGuy said:
right, blame the high school because the kid is struggling in school. wow...
Click to expand...

I think the question is fair. Especially since this is supposed to be a strong point of this school. One of the main reasons parents send their children to this school is so that they're prepared for post secondary education. Preferably at the school of their choosing. IIRC Cretin isn't much cheaper than the U of Mn. That and it appears that the young man has academic ability.

Besides BadgerGuy, it is a long time till spring ball.

BTW I thought you'd appreciate this question since many Badger alumni think that attending UW Madison makes them automatically superior to all.;)
 



STPGopher said:
I do appreciate your testimony, as that is part of what I asked. I also understand that many can struggle with standardized tests. The reason I asked specifically about Cretin is typically the reason parents send their children to the likes of Cretin, STA, SPA, Breck, Shattuck St. Mary's.... is so that they are well prepared for such tests. I just find it odd that in the end, it may make little to no difference. Especially since this is usually one of their selling points to the potential students parents.
Click to expand...

I am not speaking for Seantrel, I have no idea how smart he is or isn't. However, a lot of parents send their kids to Cretin to keep them out of trouble and to maximize their scholastic ability. You rarely see a Cretin kid get into too much trouble (I know the Floyd and Shady thing), but out of the countless Cretin kids, they generally stay out of trouble.

The private school atmosphere I think helps get kids who probably wouldn't be able to graduate HS to get to a point where they can graduate HS.

Furthermore, if the kid is having a hard time getting the minimum to play college football, that really isn't that rare. The national average on the ACT is 20, and I would have a hard time imagining that most kids who aren't graduating HS are even taking the ACT. There is obviously quite a few kids who graduate from HS who wouldn't be able to get a good enough score to pass the NCAA clearinghouse. Granted, Cretin should have a better than average on their ACT (i'm sure they do), but that still doesn't mean that there aren't quite a few kids who graduate and wouldn't get a good enough score.

Lastly, what would Cretin's incentive be to cheat? Yeah, they get a bit more exposure than they normally would, but they were already getting a ton of exposure (locally and within college football recruiting circles). There probably won't be a kid getting as much exposure, but Cretin has had and will continue to have tons of kids like Ryan Harris, Michael Floyd, Joe Schafer, Rashon Powers-Neal, Phil Archer, Broderick Binns....why would they put their entire credibility in jeopardy, for 1 kid? They wouldn't...their is flat out zero incentive.
 

Graduating from High School and taking an ACT/SAT test are different animals. HS grades are very dependent on the teacher. An English class may be very easy or very hard depending on the teacher's requirements. Standardized tests are very concrete and unforgiving. They place a great deal of emphasis on reading and reasoning and doing so in a limited amount of time. A person with poor reading ability will have a tough time with a standardized test but may do fine in the classroom.
 

I have heard many people rationalize the reason for their poor score on a standardized test is because they are a poor test taker. The more likely reason for a poor score is: a) poor reading ability, b) poor reasoning ability or c) the inability to read/reason quickly.
 

Not Just ACT/SAT

According to some reports his high school average isn't very strong either.

This stuff should have stayed private as long as possible. Sadly, after the NY Times article there are a number of schools who would be more then happy to let everyone know if the kid's numbers weren't good.
 



frozengopher said:
Sarcasm? Or do you really think that CDH really wants the reputation nationally that its player athletes aren't intelligent enough to get a passing score on the ACT?
Click to expand...

I think what he means is that Cretin wants the attention of having the #1 recruit in the country, even if it means sacrificing academic standards a bit.
 

forestlaker said:
I have heard many people rationalize the reason for their poor score on a standardized test is because they are a poor test taker. The more likely reason for a poor score is: a) poor reading ability, b) poor reasoning ability or c) the inability to read/reason quickly.
Click to expand...

LOL. This post made me laugh. Get a clue buddy. Next time, why don't you just say that if you get a poor score on a standardized test its because you're a complete idiot?
 

I think CDH is a prep school, so parents should expect the education to prepare the kid for college.
We should not say things we will regret if Seantrel decides to play at the U.
 

Is anyone eligible to enroll in CDH as long as they can pay the tuition, or do they need to pass an entrance exam to be admitted? If an entrance exam is required, it would be hard to measure the success of a private school preparing a student for for college based on that student's ACT score simply because the school can pick and choose the students they enroll. More intelligent students, in general, will do better on the ACT.
 

ust4life said:
LOL. This post made me laugh. Get a clue buddy. Next time, why don't you just say that if you get a poor score on a standardized test its because you're a complete idiot?
Click to expand...

I along with many, many other Gopher Lady supporters wish that he had never posted that.

"Anyone can struggle with a decent ACT score...I am one of them. I am a horrible standardized test taker, and always will be"

Please forgive forestlaker, GL, "he's knows not what he speaks". :)
 


Zeppelin Gopher said:
Cretin is a glorified public school.
Click to expand...

Exactly, so are Holy Angels, Benilde, and Hill Murray. These schools are esentially on par with suburban schools educationally the only differences being you pay and wear a uniform.
 

goldengophers said:
Exactly, so are Holy Angels, Benilde, and Hill Murray. These schools are esentially on par with suburban schools educationally the only differences being you pay and wear a uniform.
Click to expand...

Is this true? What is the 10K for?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I am not speaking for Seantrel, I have no idea how smart he is or isn't. However, a lot of parents send their kids to Cretin to keep them out of trouble and to maximize their scholastic ability. You rarely see a Cretin kid get into too much trouble (I know the Floyd and Shady thing), but out of the countless Cretin kids, they generally stay out of trouble.

The private school atmosphere I think helps get kids who probably wouldn't be able to graduate HS to get to a point where they can graduate HS.

Furthermore, if the kid is having a hard time getting the minimum to play college football, that really isn't that rare. The national average on the ACT is 20, and I would have a hard time imagining that most kids who aren't graduating HS are even taking the ACT. There is obviously quite a few kids who graduate from HS who wouldn't be able to get a good enough score to pass the NCAA clearinghouse. Granted, Cretin should have a better than average on their ACT (i'm sure they do), but that still doesn't mean that there aren't quite a few kids who graduate and wouldn't get a good enough score.

Lastly, what would Cretin's incentive be to cheat? Yeah, they get a bit more exposure than they normally would, but they were already getting a ton of exposure (locally and within college football recruiting circles). There probably won't be a kid getting as much exposure, but Cretin has had and will continue to have tons of kids like Ryan Harris, Michael Floyd, Joe Schafer, Rashon Powers-Neal, Phil Archer, Broderick Binns....why would they put their entire credibility in jeopardy, for 1 kid? They wouldn't...their is flat out zero incentive.
Click to expand...

I would certainly hope they wouldn't cheat. Maybe I'm being a bit naive here, but I just thought if there was any place where a student would have additional resources to assist with taking the ACT it would be Cretin.

Hopefully he passed last Saturday.
 

There's a whole industry dedicated to preparing students for the ACT and SAT. You can buy books to help you prepare for it, there are private classes you can take, and many schools dedicate time from the school day for test prep classes. Such preparation is beneficial in that it raises your score, but it doesn't mean you got smarter, it just means you're more prepared for the type of questions asked on a standardized test.

It's better to be prepared in advance, we've seen people take it, do poorly, prepare for it and retake it, only to have the increased score raise red flags. If you properly prepare for it in the first place, there are no red flags.
 

RodentRampage said:
There's a whole industry dedicated to preparing students for the ACT and SAT. You can buy books to help you prepare for it, there are private classes you can take, and many schools dedicate time from the school day for test prep classes. Such preparation is beneficial in that it raises your score, but it doesn't mean you got smarter, it just means you're more prepared for the type of questions asked on a standardized test.

It's better to be prepared in advance, we've seen people take it, do poorly, prepare for it and retake it, only to have the increased score raise red flags. If you properly prepare for it in the first place, there are no red flags.
Click to expand...

Exactly, like Marqueis Gray....

(I'm really not trying to start anything, I just couldn't resist.)
 

Cretin average ACT: 25
Mounds View High school average ACT: 25.4
 

gold0383 said:
Is anyone eligible to enroll in CDH as long as they can pay the tuition, or do they need to pass an entrance exam to be admitted? If an entrance exam is required, it would be hard to measure the success of a private school preparing a student for for college based on that student's ACT score simply because the school can pick and choose the students they enroll. More intelligent students, in general, will do better on the ACT.
Click to expand...

Prospective students have to apply, but the acceptance process is not like it is at Blake, Breck, or SPA. Special preference is given to products of the Archdiocese's K-8 system and a variety of "legacy" type applicants (children of graduates, siblings of students, etc.). They do community outreach to bring in racial and economic diversity. They also seem to get their fair share of stellar athletes, but they don't recruit as much as say, Kenny Novak out in Hopkins.

The $10,000 will buy, for many, the Catholic education they seek for their children. It also buys lower class sizes than most public schools in the metropolitan area. They have a lot of good students, but like I said above, it's not like Blake, Breck or SPA in terms of where the top kids end up collegiately.

As stated by another poster, it's on a par with a lot of the suburban schools. The range of academic opportunities for a secondary student at CDH is probably narrower than it is at most suburban schools, where the curriculum is more varied.
 

I could explain how I struggled to get an 18 on the ACT while maintaining a 3.4 grade point average in high school, yet I managed to graduate from college in 3 years with a BSB/M and again a year and a half later with an MBA but what's the point? What this is really about is folks wanting to take unwarranted shots at CDH.

Seantrel could be struggling with the ACT because he has not applied himself, because he is bad at taking tests or because the best he can do is an 18 on the ACT. Do we determine the value of a Yale (History) or Harvard (MBA) education based on former President George Bush's (W) intellect? Of course not. To some he was a good President and to some a bad President but nobody considers him to have had superior intellect.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
I could explain how I struggled to get an 18 on the ACT while maintaining a 3.4 grade point average in high school, yet I managed to graduate from college in 3 years with a BSB/M and again a year and a half later with an MBA but what's the point? What this is really about is folks wanting to take unwarranted shots at CDH.

Seantrel could be struggling with the ACT because he has not applied himself, because he is bad at taking tests or because the best he can do is an 18 on the ACT. Do we determine the value of a Yale (History) or Harvard (MBA) education based on former President George Bush's (W) intellect? Of course not. To some he was a good President and to some a bad President but nobody considers him to have had superior intellect.
Click to expand...

It's been many years removed from taking these tests but it is my recollection that the standardized tests cover the broad spectrum of what is offered in high school. High schools are generally pretty flexible about what is required. If you happen to take four years of Science, Math, and English in high school you are probably going to be prepared for the tests. If you take a more flexible schedule and opt out of some of the science and math you probably are not going to do as well on the tests.
 

RunGopherRun said:
Exactly, like Marqueis Gray....

(I'm really not trying to start anything, I just couldn't resist.)
Click to expand...

That was what I had in mind. Making a fuss out of improved test scores just seems absurd when there's such an industry devoted to improving your test scores. There's nothing illegitimate about test prep, the more you know what to expect from the test, the better you will do. It's certainly not considered illegitimate when schools help students prepare for the tests. Athletes would do well to go to the library, check out a test prep book and go through it. Be familiar with what sort of questions you will be asked.
 

I went to DLS and had a friend in HS who was constantly on the high honor roll was on top of his books, and maintained like a 3.7 or something. He took his ACT and got a 20. Studied more, took it again, got a 20 again. I kind of took school seriously, was on the honor roll more often than not, held down a 3.3 GPA, took the ACT after being up all night and got a 25 despite dozing off a few times. Didn't study any more and took it again, stayed awake and got a 28. I'm no smarter than my friend but I've always been a great test taker as well as been very good at reading, writing, and comprehension. Some people just aren't great test takers, some analyze things slowly, some get nervous, and some just don't apply themselves.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom