Quarterback Comparison 2 Games In

[kuhlmanalex]

So I have seen a ton of threads saying that Shortell should be the starter and I am just not seeing it so I went and looked at some stats (which I know aren't the whole story but you gotta use something) and this is what I got:
Shortell: 9-20 125 yards 45% completion 6.25 ypa 1TD 1INT and a 104 rtg 32 rushing yards
Gray: 23-44 305 yards 52.3% completion 6.9ypa 2TD 2INT and a 116.4 rtg 157 rushing yards

On Max's 3 possessions to open up the second half he led us on a decent drive 7 plays and 51 yards which ended on a missed FG and I think this is the one that DaJon missed the catch, which was not a perfect pass but I will definitely say he should have caught it and scored, but people say Gray is inaccurate and that pass wasn't exactly on the numbers.
The following two possessions were 3 and outs and totaled 11 yards.

In the USC game, his first drive which Gray left at 3rd and 8, Max ran for a first down then we ran for 2 yrds, then incomplete, incomplete, punt. After that came his great drive which was 9 plays and 83 yards and a TD to Green; then the following drive he went 2-3 18 yards and the interception that ended the game.

So I would say that Max has had 6 possessions pretty much of his own and 2 ended with 3-and-outs, another was pretty much a 3-and-out once he came in, one ended on an interception, one was a great touchdown and the other was a missed FG.

Despite what it might sound like, I actually think that Max has a great future here as a Gopher, but people are acting like we are starting junk and keeping a superstar on the bench.

I think that with the lack of running game that we need Grays legs, and despite perception...Grays completion percentage is better and so is his yards per attempt. I know Shortell has had a couple drops but so has Gray. Nothing has affected the QBs stats I would argue this year more than the non-call on the holding of DaJon which would have been as much of a guaranteed touchdown as the drop by McKnight.

I just think that some people want the backup QB no matter what. Imagine the ripping that would be going on if Gray would have underthrew the fade to Da'Jon at the end of the USC game to end all hopes of a comeback. Like I said, I think that Shortell has a future once Gray is gone, but I just thought I would try to put some stats and stuff out there. I can see how people were clammering for Shortell after the first game with his great drive but I was shocked how people repsonded after yesterday. GO GOPHERS! Prayers still with Kill, its nice to see that things seem to be looking up! If you respond to this, try not to go crazy and tell me to no longer be a Gopher fan because that gets so old reading...us fans should stick together and appreciate the fact that we care enough to post on here even if we have differing opinions.

 

[Doc1001]

But Shortell as of right now is smoother and sees the field better due to his height. Maybe Gray will get better as he goes but right now we have tough sledding on offense until he gets in the groove. Shortell just looks like a more natural quarterback maybe due to Gray's rustiness.

 

[fej]

But Shortell as of right now is smoother and sees the field better due to his height. Maybe Gray will get better as he goes but right now we have tough sledding on offense until he gets in the groove. Shortell just looks like a more natural quarterback maybe due to Gray's rustiness.

Actual stats > Your feeling about how they look. If we're going to give Shortell an out on some dropped balls, have to do the same for Gray, not to mention the INT the NMSU DB left on the field slipping on his break. Shortell is what, two inches taller than Gray? 6-4 can see the field just fine if the o-line gives him more than two seconds. As has been said in other threads, regardless of QB (and I think that stats listed by OP tell that story just fine) both lines have to do much better before we can see any real improvement.

 

[kuhlmanalex]

I could maybe see that he looks the part of a quarterback. I thought he actually looked kind of uncomfortable out there against NMSU. I really think that if you take out Gray and lose that threat of a running quarterback (especially on this team that is struggling badly running the ball) that the sledding will be even tougher. I thought I seen that our RBs had like 32 rushing yards or something like that. I think that we are beaten badly yesterday if we didn't have Gray running the ball. I also was impressed with how he handled the offense in the final 2 minutes. I know someone else on here said his time management was terrible but I thought it was actually really good. He got the ball into scoring area with 30 seconds left, thats pretty good to me.

 

[fryguy22]

But Shortell as of right now is smoother and sees the field better due to his height. Maybe Gray will get better as he goes but right now we have tough sledding on offense until he gets in the groove. Shortell just looks like a more natural quarterback maybe due to Gray's rustiness.

I'm sorry....in the last two weeks did Gray shrink? Please let me know if so, because otherwise Gray and Shortell are still 6'5'' and 6'6''..... not exactly a significant difference

 

[matt]

Good post and collection of stats. It's like someone said last week (I forgot who), the backup QB is everyone's favorite player.

 

[gall0249]

Good post and collection of stats. It's like someone said last week (I forgot who), the backup QB is everyone's favorite player.

Kind of like how Mike Madsen or Brian Cardinal were everyone's favorite player on the TWolves? Or how Rudy was everyone's favorite player from that movie? Hell, Punto was even people's favorite player for the Twins for a season or two. That doesn't mean that you want them playing all the time. Favorite player doesn't equal better player.

 

[nemosgold]

Worse excuse for Shortell that I've heard is "give him experience for the future". Folks we did that five years ago with Adam Weber.

 

[Sparlimb]

Worse excuse for Shortell that I've heard is "give him experience for the future". Folks we did that five years ago with Adam Weber.

God you're right. Best argument I've ever heard!

 

[Sparlimb]

The only reason I was hoping Shortell would start the second half was because Gray's turnovers and lack of leadership were killing us. He had two good drives, although the second ended in a pick because he couldn't hit a guy 8 yards away that was all alone in the endzone. That is the biggest problem I see with Gray, he's not leading this team. Would have hoped a kid his age would have more moxey. But as we know, some kids have it and some don't.

 

[Winnipegopher]

Did you go take a leak right before half? Gray's best drive of the game was the two minute drill at the end of the first half. Because of that drive I was quite excited to see if he would continue in the third quarter.

 

[Goldteam]

doing what shortell is doing is much harder

not knowing when you will come in and coming in cold is not as easy as it looks

 

[hendo59]

So I have seen a ton of threads saying that Shortell should be the starter and I am just not seeing it so I went and looked at some stats (which I know aren't the whole story but you gotta use something) and this is what I got:
Shortell: 9-20 125 yards 45% completion 6.25 ypa 1TD 1INT and a 104 rtg 32 rushing yards
Gray: 23-44 305 yards 52.3% completion 6.9ypa 2TD 2INT and a 116.4 rtg 157 rushing yards

On Max's 3 possessions to open up the second half he led us on a decent drive 7 plays and 51 yards which ended on a missed FG and I think this is the one that DaJon missed the catch, which was not a perfect pass but I will definitely say he should have caught it and scored, but people say Gray is inaccurate and that pass wasn't exactly on the numbers.
The following two possessions were 3 and outs and totaled 11 yards.

In the USC game, his first drive which Gray left at 3rd and 8, Max ran for a first down then we ran for 2 yrds, then incomplete, incomplete, punt. After that came his great drive which was 9 plays and 83 yards and a TD to Green; then the following drive he went 2-3 18 yards and the interception that ended the game.

So I would say that Max has had 6 possessions pretty much of his own and 2 ended with 3-and-outs, another was pretty much a 3-and-out once he came in, one ended on an interception, one was a great touchdown and the other was a missed FG.

Despite what it might sound like, I actually think that Max has a great future here as a Gopher, but people are acting like we are starting junk and keeping a superstar on the bench.

I think that with the lack of running game that we need Grays legs, and despite perception...Grays completion percentage is better and so is his yards per attempt. I know Shortell has had a couple drops but so has Gray. Nothing has affected the QBs stats I would argue this year more than the non-call on the holding of DaJon which would have been as much of a guaranteed touchdown as the drop by McKnight.

I just think that some people want the backup QB no matter what. Imagine the ripping that would be going on if Gray would have underthrew the fade to Da'Jon at the end of the USC game to end all hopes of a comeback. Like I said, I think that Shortell has a future once Gray is gone, but I just thought I would try to put some stats and stuff out there. I can see how people were clammering for Shortell after the first game with his great drive but I was shocked how people repsonded after yesterday. GO GOPHERS! Prayers still with Kill, its nice to see that things seem to be looking up! If you respond to this, try not to go crazy and tell me to no longer be a Gopher fan because that gets so old reading...us fans should stick together and appreciate the fact that we care enough to post on here even if we have differing opinions.

Yup. 100% agree. Stats don't lie. All of this lobbying for Shortell is based on one scoring drive, potential, and because some think he looks the part more than Q. This is classic, "The backup is always better stuff IMO, and wouldn't be entertained if we were 1-1 or 2-0. Give it a rest people. He may be the future, but he has not demonstrated that he is ready to start and carry this team on his freshman shoulders.

 

[Sparlimb]

Did you go take a leak right before half? Gray's best drive of the game was the two minute drill at the end of the first half. Because of that drive I was quite excited to see if he would continue in the third quarter.

Sorry, forgot about the drive at the end of the half. I did see it although I was stuck going to a wedding, so we left as the extra point went through. Gray did have moments on the first drive he hit multiple passes which was nice to see.

 

[WHB Brewer]

Great job of putting together actual data on performance. Hopefully this will quell some of the cheering for the backup QB. I agree with some other folks here that Gray gives us the best chance, mostly due to his running ability. If he isn't able to run, imagine how much worse off we would be due to the inconsistent play of the o-line. His scrambles have bailed them out several times already.

 

[btowngopher]

I haven't seen anything that makes me think that Shortell is anymore accurate a passer than Gray, I don't really understand why so many feel this is true. Shortell might possibly be better at progressing through his reads, but I think he forces throws more then Gray does. Grays ints came from no seeing underneath coverage, not from forcing it into a well covered wr.

 

[MaxyJR1]

I don't think they should settle on one and I think both should play. I think the coaches stick with Gray because we can't run the ball at all without him. I also think they would go with Shortell if they thought Parrish was an option as the back-up and move Gray to another position.

 

[kuhlmanalex]

I've seen the "move Gray back to WR" comment a few times on here. I just really really really don't see that happening. I gotta imagine it would really frustrate Gray (if I remember right he was thinking about leaving if he wasn't going to play quarterback). Secondly, you spent all spring having him be a quarterback and now two games in you will move him back? Man that would shock me. It wouldn't shock me as much to see possible 5-6 plays ALL YEAR where both are on the field at the same time but nothing more than that IMO

 

[hendo59]

I've seen the "move Gray back to WR" comment a few times on here. I just really really really don't see that happening. I gotta imagine it would really frustrate Gray (if I remember right he was thinking about leaving if he wasn't going to play quarterback). Secondly, you spent all spring having him be a quarterback and now two games in you will move him back? Man that would shock me. It wouldn't shock me as much to see possible 5-6 plays ALL YEAR where both are on the field at the same time but nothing more than that IMO

There's no way they move him, even if they bench him. They aren't going to have Parrish back up an inexperienced freshman starting QB.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Like in most situatios, the stats don't tell the entire story. Shortell played better in those first two drives than his stats indicate. He had the flukey McKnight drop (at about the 12ish yard line) and we were really moving along pretty well. He also had the ball that went through the other WRs hands on 3rd down. It's not a big deal but in a sample size as small as Shortell's, a couple plays like that can have a big impact.

For me, I think the big difference is that Gray is the only thing close to a running threat that we have right now.

 

[60's Guy]

things to consider?

*Vs the Aggies Gray generated 21 points
*the play calling was not favorable to Gray or the Gophers
* Shortell benefited from better play calls to start the 2nd half
*Shortell was very lucky not to turn the ball over in attempting to hand off to the running back...he totally lost the ball which landed in the running backs hands in stride by total accident 10 feet in the air
* Max has played in both games because Gray had health issues....his participation has not been because of dissatisfaction with Gray...factor that into the asinine thought Gray will become a WR
* Gray is our only chance to be above average as a team...if he finds confidence, if they utilize his skills better...he has the potential to carry us....nobody else does
* will everybody clamor for Nelson next spring over both guys? He'll be a Minnesota kid
* show Gray some patience....he also has the potential to be our most effective leader....he has played two games at QB in four years
*they say teams improve the most between their first and second games....pretty darn alarming for Gopher fans...we went backwards...the Aggies made strides
*call me a whiner...Royston didn't commit pass interference to my eyes...call that effected the outcome....Gopher receivers got chucked and held and grabbed with the ball in the air on multiple occasions and no flags

 

[Oneoldgopher]

Who has more potential with this stat: 0-2 or 0-2. Hmmm. I'm having a real hard time with this one. If anyone has a hard time understanding how low the team is right now is either: 1, too young to remember the long history of incompetent football at Minnesota; or, 2, too fanatical to see with their eyes, instead of their heart. We have seen throws that were poor decisions. Also, indecisiveness. Poor catching technique. Poor position between ball and receiver. Breakdowns by the o-line, especially with Jimmy boy. The seniors on the o-line are not the best we have ever had either. Somebody want to show me with so many broken pieces to the puzzle with missing parts, how this team could put together a coherent picture? Anybody?

The merger team of Jerry Kill and Company have been successful everywhere they went. Well, this merger may yet work, but, it looks like it just might fail as well. This second loss was the type of loss we wanted to avoid. High priority of avoiding this exact type of risk. It makes the team look particularly pathetic. A team with less talent and supposedly less coaching ability kicked our fanny. The coaching theory, a good one, is cut down on mistakes and keep us in the game. Well, there have been substantial mistakes and it looks like any other team in recent history of the last 30 years. The last team with true discipline was year 2 of Lou Holtz, which was still a mediocre lot.

If anybody, please, can name me an area where we are improving please note it.