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Stan The Caddy

Stan The Caddy

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I hate to start another discussion about our QB situation moving forward, but I was watching the Texas A&M @ Louisiana Tech game on Saturday night and it gave me hope. I know, I am a rube. But in all seriousness, watching Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel play, it made me wonder if Philip Nelson could do the same for Minnesota next year. Granted, because the style of offenses differ greatly, I would not expect Nelson to put up the same numbers, but I just wonder if he could command the system like Manziel has for TAMU.

So, it got me thinking about how Manziel was viewed as a recurit as compared to Nelson. So, I went to rivals to check it out and it is surprisingly similiar.

Manziel coming out of High School:
Rivals 3 Star Recuit
14th Ranked Dual Threat QB in the Country
6'1" 193lbs: 4.53 40 Time
Offers from: Baylor, Colorado State, Iowa State, Oregon, Stanford, Rice, La Tech, Tulsa, Wyoming & UTSA

Nelson coming out of High School:
Rivals 3 Star Recruit
15th Ranked Dual Threat QB in the Country
6'3" 216lbs: 4.48 40 Time
Offers from: Minnesota. Rivals also lists Iowa, Iowa State and Nebraska as interested and we know Wisconsin was in on him for awhile

In addition, both Manziel and Nelson enrolled in college the spring of what would have been their senior year in HS and both red-shirted. (Nelson to this point barring two serious injuries). I think this comparison is constructive because of the similarities in rankings coming out of HS. I know there is disagreement among posters about Rivals rankings, etc...but it is what we have to go on. Manziel has exceeded expectations to this point and has played very well for TAMU.

We also have seen what a command of the offense Marcus Mariota has at Oregon as a RS Frosh. I am hoping beyond hope that Nelson can have the same influence on Minnesota and be the QB for 4 years starting in 2013.
 

If there is one thing I've learned over the last 5 years following the Gophers, it's this: If you have to rely on a redshirt freshmen, JUCO, or some other player who has never seen the field before, you're in deep trouble....

As much as we all want Nelson to be the savior, it just doesn't usually work like that. With pretty much everyone else returning on offense, the best thing for this team, and the most realistic, is for Shortell to make a big step forward, so we can start a guy that has multiple years of experience.
 

Kill's game plan will not allow a quarterback to put up big numbers. He wants two stud running backs and a mobile QB (Nelson is mobile enough). He has said time and time again that he wants to run the football. That is pretty apparent when Shortell is in the game. No running game? Doesn't matter. Keep running. Sooner or later we'll break off an 8 yard carry.
 

John Galt said:
If there is one thing I've learned over the last 5 years following the Gophers, it's this: If you have to rely on a redshirt freshmen, JUCO, or some other player who has never seen the field before, you're in deep trouble....

As much as we all want Nelson to be the savior, it just doesn't usually work like that. With pretty much everyone else returning on offense, the best thing for this team, and the most realistic, is for Shortell to make a big step forward, so we can start a guy that has multiple years of experience.
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So, you just completely ignored the point of my post and went with some cliche about relying on a RS Frosh? Kind of like in the NFL where rookies CANNOT play QB?

Watch Manziel or Mariota play once, then get back to me. Where in my post did I suggest I was relying on Nelson to be a savior? I was saying that there is evidence out there that RS Frosh QB's can be successful and can lead teams at a high level. It does not get any higher than the SEC my friend.
 

afurry91 said:
Kill's game plan will not allow a quarterback to put up big numbers. He wants two stud running backs and a mobile QB (Nelson is mobile enough). He has said time and time again that he wants to run the football. That is pretty apparent when Shortell is in the game. No running game? Doesn't matter. Keep running. Sooner or later we'll break off an 8 yard carry.
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OK? What is your point? I stated clearly in my post that Nelson, or any QB for that matter, will not put up the same numbers as Manziel. What I am looking for is command of the offense, if you watched the game Saturday night, not only did Manziel put up big numbers, but it was also clear he was running the show efficiently for an SEC team. Also, I think Gray rushing for almost 1000 yards last year runs contrary to your first sentence.
 


Stan The Caddy said:
So, you just completely ignored the point of my post and went with some cliche about relying on a RS Frosh? Kind of like in the NFL where rookies CANNOT play QB?

Watch Manziel or Mariota play once, then get back to me. Where in my post did I suggest I was relying on Nelson to be a savior? I was saying that there is evidence out there that RS Frosh QB's can be successful and can lead teams at a high level. It does not get any higher than the SEC my friend.
Click to expand...

It's not impossible, we would all love it if Nelson was starting game 1 next year and blew us away with his command of the offense, accuracy, decision making, and running ability. Bottom line is we have no idea if he can do that ever, yet alone next year as a redshirt freshman. Anything else is just speculation, the same speculation that everyone had for Gray 2 short years ago. For every 1 new player that has come in and make an impact right away, I can name 10 that have failed to live up to the initial expectations of the GHers.
 

John-

I appreciate that, but again, I am not laying ANY expectations on him, I am just pointing out what similarily ranked (by Rivals and offers) RS FROSH is capable of.
 

Stan The Caddy said:
John-

I appreciate that, but again, I am not laying ANY expectations on him, I am just pointing out what similarily ranked (by Rivals and offers) RS FROSH is capable of.
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With all due respect Stan, to the best of our knowledge as reported by Rivals, Mr. Nelson had 1 offer. I wouldn't state that the interest shown in him by Iowa, Nebraska, and Wisconsin is equal to a QB who had actual offers from Baylor, Stanford, and Oregon.
 

afurry91 said:
Kill's game plan will not allow a quarterback to put up big numbers.
Click to expand...

Chandler Harnish, 2010:

2,530 yds passing, 21 TD, 5 INT, 64.7% completion
137 carries, 836 yards rushing (6.1 yds/att), 7 TD

3,366 total yards (240.4 total yards/gm), 7.85 yards/play, 28 TD

Yup, just terrible numbers.
 



He made it pretty clear from fairly early on that Minnesota was at the top of his list, sometimes that deters official offers. In addition, Manziel was the 14th ranked dual threat QB and Nelson was 15th in the next class. If those rankings are not similar, I do not know what is...
 

dpodoll68 said:
Chandler Harnish, 2010:

2,530 yds passing, 21 TD, 5 INT, 64.7% completion
137 carries, 836 yards rushing (6.1 yds/att), 7 TD

3,366 total yards (240.4 total yards/gm), 7.85 yards/play, 28 TD

Yup, just terrible numbers.
Click to expand...

Thanks DPO, I was thinking of Harnish, but just had not gotten around to looking up his numbers.
 

John Galt said:
It's not impossible, we would all love it if Nelson was starting game 1 next year and blew us away with his command of the offense, accuracy, decision making, and running ability. Bottom line is we have no idea if he can do that ever, yet alone next year as a redshirt freshman. Anything else is just speculation, the same speculation that everyone had for Gray 2 short years ago. For every 1 new player that has come in and make an impact right away, I can name 10 that have failed to live up to the initial expectations of the GHers.
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Geez, we know that. And, yes, this is speculation. He wants to speculate on whether this is possible. Is it possible?

Yes, it's possible. Likely? Probably not. But coming in this spring will help him tremendously. Shortell is a better passer than Gray, but still isn't a great passer. You can improve accuracy, but it's tough to make big strides on that. And we know Shortell isn't a runner. I hope Nelson can take the job next year.

Will he? No idea. If he does, will he have as good a year as Manziel is so far? Unlikely. Can we speculate? Yes.
 

aflurry, if that's you in your avatar and that's your girlfriend and/ or wife then we should be giving you WAY more respect..
 



Stan The Caddy said:
He made it pretty clear from fairly early on that Minnesota was at the top of his list, sometimes that deters official offers. In addition, Manziel was the 14th ranked dual threat QB and Nelson was 15th in the next class. If those rankings are not similar, I do not know what is...
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I think the comparison you want to make can be done with recent high-level recruits over the past 5 years. Some of the highest rated players we've had in the last 5 years are Rashede Hageman, MarQueis Gray, Michael Carter, Keanon Cooper, Brandon Green, David Pittman, Sam Maresh, Traye Simmons, Vincent Hill, Hayo Carpenter, Hasan Lipscomb, Lamonte Edwards, and Jimmy Gjere. Of these 13 players, only 2 have made an impact in their first two years, Simmons in year 1 and Gray as a WR in year 2.

For every Manziel and Mariota, there are 10 similar rated players who either aren't starting or having that type of impact. Again, it can be done, but the odds aren't in favor of it.
 

afurry91 said:
Kill's game plan will not allow a quarterback to put up big numbers. He wants two stud running backs and a mobile QB (Nelson is mobile enough). He has said time and time again that he wants to run the football. That is pretty apparent when Shortell is in the game. No running game? Doesn't matter. Keep running. Sooner or later we'll break off an 8 yard carry.
Click to expand...

You run to give yourself options. Our passing game (no disrespect to our QBs) is just flat out not good enough to chuck it around. If the QBs just convert the throws that are out there, we could have a pretty dynamic offense. How many points were left off the board from underthrows just in the last game alone? I recall at least 3 TDs on three possessions, there might have been more, I don't know. The point is, an offense can't be explosive if you're missing on open TD passes, And what's often opened those opportunities has been the running game.

A QB can put up big numbers if they hit their shots, as Harnish has shown. I'll give you that the QB is not likely getting 40, 50 throws in this offense, that's not gonna happen. But he can put up some real big numbers, the opportunities are there.
 

John Galt said:
I think the comparison you want to make can be done with recent high-level recruits over the past 5 years. Some of the highest rated players we've had in the last 5 years are Rashede Hageman, MarQueis Gray, Michael Carter, Keanon Cooper, Brandon Green, David Pittman, Sam Maresh, Traye Simmons, Vincent Hill, Hayo Carpenter, Hasan Lipscomb, Lamonte Edwards, and Jimmy Gjere. Of these 13 players, only 2 have made an impact in their first two years, Simmons in year 1 and Gray as a WR in year 2.

For every Manziel and Mariota, there are 10 similar rated players who either aren't starting or having that type of impact. Again, it can be done, but the odds aren't in favor of it.
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Honestly. I am just beating my head against the wall here. You clearly have misunderstood every post I have made in this thread. Show me where I have speculated or predicted ANYTHING about Nelson's performance next year? Comparing him to other highly rated recurits at different positions that have come to the U the last 5 years is a pointless exercise. Pointless. Especially when a handful of those recruits were JUCO players. Apples to Oranges.

Per usual, this has got way out of hand and way off the intended topic. I have watched TAMU twice this year and the Ducks a handful of times. I apologize that it got me to think about what a RS Frosh is capable of considering our starting QB is graduating and the backup has not exactly seized the day.

Frankly I after watching Manziel play, I was surprised at where he was ranked and thought he would have been higher than 14th coming out of HS.
 

Stan The Caddy said:
Honestly. I am just beating my head against the wall here. You clearly have misunderstood every post I have made in this thread. Show me where I have speculated or predicted ANYTHING about Nelson's performance next year? Comparing him to other highly rated recurits at different positions that have come to the U the last 5 years is a pointless exercise. Pointless. Especially when a handful of those recruits were JUCO players. Apples to Oranges.

Per usual, this has got way out of hand and way off the intended topic. I have watched TAMU twice this year and the Ducks a handful of times. I apologize that it got me to think about what a RS Frosh is capable of considering our starting QB is graduating and the backup has not exactly seized the day.

Frankly I after watching Manziel play, I was surprised at where he was ranked and thought he would have been higher than 14th coming out of HS.
Click to expand...

I think we can agree on this Stan: we both hope Nelson can have the kind of impact next year that Manziel is having for A&M this year.
 


afurry91 said:
Kill's game plan will not allow a quarterback to put up big numbers. He wants two stud running backs and a mobile QB (Nelson is mobile enough). He has said time and time again that he wants to run the football. That is pretty apparent when Shortell is in the game. No running game? Doesn't matter. Keep running. Sooner or later we'll break off an 8 yard carry.
Click to expand...

I wonder how you came to this conclusion considering we passed the ball more often than ran it with Shortell in the game yesterday. Even if you take away the last drive when we were in hurry up, we passed it 19 times and ran it 12 times with Shortell in. We most definitely pass more often with him in compared to Gray and it's not even close.
 

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