PSU game; Not as bad as I thought...

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Ogee Ogilthorpe

Ogee Ogilthorpe

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Was out of town so I didn't get to see the PSU game on Saturday, just watched the first HALF last night on the magic of DVR; haven't finished it yet so don't crucify me on the second half action.

What I saw was not nearly as bad as I expected from what I'd read on here. This game was a heartbeat away from being a 12-pt lead for the Gophers at the half.

Too many turnovers, but at least half were either carrying/palming the ball or coming down with a nice rebound and getting knocked over, whistled for travelling; mistakes either easily corrected or not what would be considered "dumb mistakes".

More dribble penetration than recent weeks (albeit sometimes out of control) and the most encouraging was they got a lot more good looks. They just happen to miss 4-6 layups in the early going. I thought it was a step up from previous games in a number of different areas anyway.

Bottom line: what I saw was two teams that had been struggling REALLY pressing and trying too hard to make something happen. Everybody wants to be the guy for their team to step up and turn the corner.

Battle's 3-pointer to close the half was a dagger. With PSU also struggling with confidence, they come up with that and ride that into the locker room. Conversely, for the Gophers, to come up with a great defensive stop to close the half, only to throw it away and lose the lead. Monumental turning point in the game.

They could have put this game away early just by converting a couple of layups; left PSU in the game to gather some momentum and make it a game, end up pulling out a win.

I'm assuming when I get around to watching the second half, it will get pretty ugly, outside of watching Joseph light it up.

Team needs to lighten up and have some fun out there, stop pressing so much. Hopefully they found something watching the tape that they can build on in preparing for the Wolverines.
 

This team lost two games it could have won. @Northwestern and @PSU. With those wins the Gophs would be 9-4 and contending for Big Ten. We aren't that far off.
 

In a tough league, there is little room for error. This is a young team, and one of the trademarks of a young team is inconsistency. With inconsistency comes errors that cost games. Not trying to make excuses, but that's something to think about. I think the coming years are going to be good ones, and this year isn't over yet.
 

Shoulda' and coulda', a team's worst enemies

Respectfully, a lot of teams at this time of year can say the exact same thing. Northwestern very easily could be 7-5 and pretty much a lock for the NCAA if they hadn't choked away late double-digit leads to Purdue and Illinois, and if they had beaten Michigan in overtime.

Winning teams find a way to win those games. Losing teams find a way to lose those games. Any day now (how about Thursday?), the Gophers need to return to being more of the former than the latter. Find a way to get it done, instead of finding a way to lose. Really, if nothing else, I'd just like to see the Gophers play something resembling a complete game. They're not only losing, they're looking very pedestrian in the process. I would at least like to know that they're capable of beating a Michigan or Wisconsin at home, or an Illinois on the road, if they play well.
 

At some point I think Tubby will turn from development to stretch run. IMHO I think he started saturday, it just didn't go the way he intended.

We are seeing quite a bit of growth. I've noticed Iverson doing a much better job with his footwork and blocking out. Sampson has gone from being way over rated to having me wonder just how good he might end up being. Canada has gone from looking small, weak and out of his league to looking deadly. And carter has skills still being tapped. What hasn't happened is bringing it together in a way that wins ball games.

But, if you look at the progression, we've gone from taking a cast of returning potential starters to turning them into effective role players, and a bunch of newbies who need to learn a system into starters. Outside of Nolen we could have a starting five that wasn't even in a Golden gopher uniform last year. What team can replace 4 out of five starters and still make it to the dance? Tubby is a great coach, i have faith he'll be able to do that.
 


SelectionSunday said:
Respectfully, a lot of teams at this time of year can say the exact same thing. Northwestern very easily could be 7-5 and pretty much a lock for the NCAA if they hadn't choked away late double-digit leads to Purdue and Illinois, and if they had beaten Michigan in overtime.

Winning teams find a way to win those games. Losing teams find a way to lose those games. Any day now (how about Thursday?), the Gophers need to return to being more of the former than the latter. Find a way to get it done, instead of finding a way to lose. Really, if nothing else, I'd just like to see the Gophers play something resembling a complete game. They're not only losing, they're looking very pedestrian in the process. I would at least like to know that they're capable of beating a Michigan or Wisconsin at home, or an Illinois on the road, if they play well.
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Agree. All can make that claim. The only reason we had a chance at PSU is because one guy (Joseph) went off. The only reason we had a chance at OSU is because one guy (Hoffarber) went off. After leading early, we weren't even in the game at NU. I don't know how we could claim we could have or should have won that game.

We've had a few good games and a couple great individual performances, but I think the team is pretty far off myself. They aren't playing well and aren't playing well together. They can fix it; they could even win every game left on the schedule. I hope soemthing turns around, but this team is currently headed the wrong way. We need better team performances and need to quit hoping one guy will get hot and carry us to victories.
 

Sorry, I'm not buying the "we're young" excuse

Hear that way too much this time of year from teams that are struggling. It's a cop-out, plain and simple. If you believe some of the other teams in the Big Ten have more talent than the Gophers, I can live with that. But this "we're young" crap is total bunk.

I would argue that the only teams in the Big Ten tied with or ahead of the Gophers in the standings clearly older than the Gophers are Wisconsin and Purdue. "We're young" becomes too much of a loser's lament for too many teams.

Illinois has upperclassmen Brock, Frazier, Meacham and sometimes Keller in the rotation. That's 3 or 4 juniors and seniors. 2 starters.

Michigan State has Morgan, Suton and Walton; Gray hardly ever plays anymore. That's 3, all starters.

Ohio State (now here's a team that truly can play the "we're young" card if they want to) has Hill and Simmons. That's 2. 1 starter.

Penn State has Cornley, Pringle & Morrissey. That's 3. 2 starters.

Purdue has Calasan, Grant, Green & Kramer. That's 4. 2 starters.

Wisconsin has Bohannon, Hughes, Krabbenhoft & Landry. This is clearly the most experienced team (in terms of key players) in the Big Ten. 4 starters.

The Gophers? We have Abu-Shamala, Busch, Johnson and Westbrook who all earn solid minutes & sparingly Bostick. I'll count that as 4. 2 starters. We have plenty of guys that have been through the grind the last two seasons.

Yes, the Gophers have some young players, but so do plenty of other NCAA contenders from the Big 10.
 

SS...Yes, it is time for the Gophers to put it together now and grow up. If we are going to compete with the big boys, we have to be big boys. Go Gophers!!!!
 

Yeah, but who's getting the minutes. and who will we rely on to get us to the dance. We are young, but more so than young we are inexperienced as a squad. That is the biggest obstacle. and an improtant one. You say it doesn't matter but yet you list every other team as having more starters with experience. And then you list our role players as proof that we're not young. The truth is, we'll have four out of five starters that weren't on the team last year, including three freshmen, and a sophmore PG. You can't say that about any team in the big ten. it's not a cop out. It's the truth.
 



So what is it then? Are we young? Are we inexperienced? Is it a revolving excuse, convenient to pull out any time we want to excuse our poor play? Were we young when we beat Louisville, Ohio State, Wisconsin and Illinois? Are we young again now that we've lost to Northwestern and Penn State? When did this transformation back to "young" take place? I must have missed it.

So using your "inexperienced" (instead of "young") argument, what I know is that we have 3 starters who have played a ton of minutes in the last two years. ... Nolen, Johnson and Westbrook. That's a pretty good batch of experience. Abu-Shamala, whether people like him getting minutes or not, has been a contributor to this program for 4 years. He's been around the block. Hoffarber, though just a sophomore, certainly would fit in the "experienced" category as well. The guy knows a thing or two about contributing & making big shots.

Still a cop-out in my book, but use it if it makes you feel better about the Gophers' recent struggles.
 

Northwestern game

"After leading early, we weren't even in the game at NU. I don't know how we could claim we could have or should have won that game."

Good point WAG. I was at that game, and in no way, shape or form can we say that's a game the Gophers "could have or should have" won. Northwestern completely outplayed the Gophers in the final 24 minutes of the game. The Wildcats were the better team that day, by a longshot.
 

SelectionSunday said:
So what is it then? Are we young? Are we inexperienced? Is it a revolving excuse, convenient to pull out any time we want to excuse our poor play? Were we young when we beat Louisville, Ohio State, Wisconsin and Illinois? Are we young again now that we've lost to Northwestern and Penn State? When did this transformation back to "young" take place? I must have missed it.
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Although, I think you could make the argument that the sign of a young team is one that is indeed up and down, or one that transforms as you call it. So, a good game against OSU or Illinois will likely be followed by a bad one on the road at MSU.

Is youth the sole reason we've been inconsistent? Of course not. But, with experience comes learning how to handle certain situations. Some of our guys haven't entirely figured that out yet, IMO.
 

SelectionSunday said:
So what is it then? Are we young? Are we inexperienced? Is it a revolving excuse, convenient to pull out any time we want to excuse our poor play? Were we young when we beat Louisville, Ohio State, Wisconsin and Illinois? Are we young again now that we've lost to Northwestern and Penn State? When did this transformation back to "young" take place? I must have missed it.

So using your "inexperienced" (instead of "young") argument, what I know is that we have 3 starters who have played a ton of minutes in the last two years. ... Nolen, Johnson and Westbrook. That's a pretty good batch of experience. Abu-Shamala, whether people like him getting minutes or not, has been a contributor to this program for 4 years. He's been around the block. Hoffarber, though just a sophomore, certainly would fit in the "experienced" category as well. The guy knows a thing or two about contributing & making big shots.

Still a cop-out in my book, but use it if it makes you feel better about the Gophers' recent struggles.
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Yes, we were absolutely young when we beat Louisville, Ohio State, Wisconsin and Illinois. The problem with a young team is not usually a lack of talent but a lack of consistency. We've been able to put together some great games and some stinkers. Our biggest problem is that we don't have a seasoned veteran who can put the team on his back in crunch time. It takes experience to be able to carry a team, and young players usually can't do so consistently unless they're special talents. I personally think most of this team's problems come from inexperience. Experienced teams play close to as well on the road as they do at home, we don't. Experienced teams can pull out games when the team isn't playing particularly well, we haven't shown that ability lately. Experienced teams don't consistently play down to the level of their opponents, we do. The fact is, the Gophers aren't playing well right now, but a large part of it is inexperience.
 



You both make good points. Point taken. As you can tell, I'm just growing weary of the references to youth. As a general rule, college basketball teams are getting younger everywhere, so I guess I just want folks to understand that the Gophers aren't unique in that respect. We're not out on an island all by ourselves.

Thanks for giving me some perspective.
 

SelectionSunday said:
You both make good points. Point taken. As you can tell, I'm just growing weary of the references to youth. As a general rule, college basketball teams are getting younger everywhere, so I guess I just want folks to understand that the Gophers aren't unique in that respect. We're not out on an island all by ourselves.

Thanks for giving me some perspective.
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No doubt most every other team in the Big Ten is young, too. That's part of why we see inconsistency with all the teams.
 

The current disappointment is due to rising expectations. When Tubby took over who would have been disappointed with this teams current development. Tubby could have run off all of Monson's players and asked us to settle for a few "Indiana type" years while he started over and rebuilt with his own players. Now we are two bad games from challenging for the Big Ten lead and so many of you act as if your patience has just been tested to the limit. This team's development is right on schedule if not ahead of it. I love college BB and am thoroughly enjoying this team. The best is ahead.
 

Nicely stated Roy. What this team has is depth, if you could add that to a solid starting 5 we'd be in very good shape inexpeienced or not. And that, after losing three senior starters and the talented future being so young, was really the challenge for Tubby this year. And not a simple one. I think we are finally finding out who our top 5 are. Now can they be productive? And can we rotate and be a cohesive for a whole game with that knowledge? This is the challenge, to solve this and still pull out three more victories.
 

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