PSA: Fleck never said he wasn’t a good X’s and O’s guy

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Somehow it gets repeated over and over as fact when it was never said.
If it was said, will be easy to find a quote of him saying it.


finding a news story claiming he said it without a quote but instead as a paraphrase isn’t the same thing.


saying
I leave X’s and O’s For coordinators
=\=
I don’t know X’s and O’s
Or
I’m not an X’s and O’s Guy
 
Last edited:


Some guy said:
Somehow it gets repeated over and over as fact when it was never said.
If it was said, will be easy to find a quote of him saying it.


finding a news story claiming he said it without a quote but instead as a paraphrase isn’t the same thing.


saying
I leave X’s and O’s For coordinators
=\=
I don’t know X’s and O’s
Or
I’m not an X’s and O’s Guy
Click to expand...
He told Gopherhole posters dinner when he got the job. You must have missed it. Thus urban legend continues.
 

Some guy said:
Somehow it gets repeated over and over as fact when it was never said.
If it was said, will be easy to find a quote of him saying it.


finding a news story claiming he said it without a quote but instead as a paraphrase isn’t the same thing.


saying
I leave X’s and O’s For coordinators
=\=
I don’t know X’s and O’s
Or
I’m not an X’s and O’s Guy
Click to expand...
You're right that he's never said he wasn't good at X's and O's -- but there is no evidence to the fact that he is good at them. He never coordinated an offense and had never done more than coach receivers before he got the job at Western. He also wanted to be a head coach and he seems to have used his time learning the things necessary to be successful at that, so it would follow that he never became a good X's and O's coordinator type of coach. The best quote I could find for my assumption is Ciarocca implying that Fleck's not an expert on either side of the ball.

Ciarrocca said things can get messy when head coaches want to be in charge of either side of the ball, too.

"You're putting in two or three times the amount of time on the film (as the head coach), that's your job," Ciarrocca said. "His job is to make sure the team is ready to play. So he's not necessarily the expert in that area, and whenever they get involved that makes it difficult."

P.J. Fleck leaves X's and O's to coordinators, and that's how they like it

Broncos coach P.J. Fleck gets results from his coordinators by letting them lead their sides of the ball
www.mlive.com www.mlive.com
 

noamfromm said:
You're right that he's never said he wasn't good at X's and O's -- but there is no evidence to the fact that he is good at them. He never coordinated an offense and had never done more than coach receivers before he got the job at Western. He also wanted to be a head coach and he seems to have used his time learning the things necessary to be successful at that, so it would follow that he never became a good X's and O's coordinator type of coach. The best quote I could find for my assumption is Ciarocca implying that Fleck's not an expert on either side of the ball.

Ciarrocca said things can get messy when head coaches want to be in charge of either side of the ball, too.

"You're putting in two or three times the amount of time on the film (as the head coach), that's your job," Ciarrocca said. "His job is to make sure the team is ready to play. So he's not necessarily the expert in that area, and whenever they get involved that makes it difficult."

P.J. Fleck leaves X's and O's to coordinators, and that's how they like it

Broncos coach P.J. Fleck gets results from his coordinators by letting them lead their sides of the ball
www.mlive.com www.mlive.com
Click to expand...
Good job of corroborating the OP
 



noamfromm said:
I just assumed that you made the PSA because you believed that is a good X/O coach
Click to expand...
No, I made the thread because I get annoyed when people say “he said himself that he doesn’t know X’s and O’s” when it is patently false. He never said that.

he does have a heavier hand in the offense than 85% of gopher hole wants to admit. Both in a positive way in 2019 and a negative way in 2017 and at times in 2021.
 


He was an OC for one day! Put some respect on the Northern Illinois OC era.
 




Look - there are coaches who clearly serve as de facto coordinators on one side of the ball - either offense or defense.

and then there are coaches who are more of the "CEO" of the organization. they provide input, but the day-to-day nitty-gritty of game-planning and calling plays is left to the coordinators. That is Fleck.

And there is nothing wrong with that model. some very successful coaches have used that model.

What we DON'T know is how often Fleck over-rides a coordinator. Does he veto certain play-calls during a game? Or would the objections be raised during the week instead of on game-day? That would be very interesting to find out.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Look - there are coaches who clearly serve as de facto coordinators on one side of the ball - either offense or defense.

and then there are coaches who are more of the "CEO" of the organization. they provide input, but the day-to-day nitty-gritty of game-planning and calling plays is left to the coordinators. That is Fleck.

And there is nothing wrong with that model. some very successful coaches have used that model.

What we DON'T know is how often Fleck over-rides a coordinator. Does he veto certain play-calls during a game? Or would the objections be raised during the week instead of on game-day? That would be very interesting to find out.
Click to expand...
He said he decides when it is a key play, like going on 4th down, and special plays (fakes, on-sides, etc) otherwise he relies on his Coordinators for the rest.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Look - there are coaches who clearly serve as de facto coordinators on one side of the ball - either offense or defense.

and then there are coaches who are more of the "CEO" of the organization. they provide input, but the day-to-day nitty-gritty of game-planning and calling plays is left to the coordinators. That is Fleck.

And there is nothing wrong with that model. some very successful coaches have used that model.

What we DON'T know is how often Fleck over-rides a coordinator. Does he veto certain play-calls during a game? Or would the objections be raised during the week instead of on game-day? That would be very interesting to find out.
Click to expand...
Considering our current offense is closer in style in pace to KC’s than to Sanford’s at Notre dame and western Kentucky, I’d say quite a bit
 



Some guy said:
No, I made the thread because I get annoyed when people say “he said himself that he doesn’t know X’s and O’s” when it is patently false. He never said that.

he does have a heavier hand in the offense than 85% of gopher hole wants to admit. Both in a positive way in 2019 and a negative way in 2017 and at times in 2021.
Click to expand...
Do you think Fleck is telling Sanford to stick with an offense that clearly isn't working and never adjust?
 

Word said:
Do you think Fleck is telling Sanford to stick with an offense that clearly isn't working and never adjust?
Click to expand...
Not in those exact words

but yes, I think fleck has a huge impact on what we do both in game and during the week
 

Some guy said:
Not in those exact words

but yes, I think fleck has a huge impact on what we do both in game and during the week
Click to expand...
I think that is the issue I have with the whole thing about Sanford hire. PJ didn't hire him because he respect him. It is totally different from KC. PJ repeatedly said KC was the OC he wanted the moment he got HC job at WMU. KC was also able to ride the wave of RPO in 2018/19. I am sure other coaches adjusted the RPOs more easily in 2021 and know how to defend very well too. Also asking ref. to pay attention to lineman etc.
Also, I don't believe Sanford totally buy into RPO scheme 100%. So he tries to gel with his style of play calling. Here are a few things that undermind his tenure here.
- But he does not have trust from PJ to completely transition into his playbook. I don't know what that is but it is defiantly not KC's playbook.
- He is not man enough to stand up to PJ and say TM is not the guy to run his playbook.
- He is not capable of making in-game adjustments. Many fans can see it from TV, it is hard to fathom he is not aware of it from the press box. If he is indeed that stupid, he should be fired on the spot. He just doesn't trust his players and himself.
- Finally, it is PJ fault 100%. He needs to get a grip. Allow Sanford to do what he thinks he can do or find another one.
- PJ needs to stop thinking of himself as Nick Saben 2.0. It is not his job to polish his buddy's dull coaching careers. B1G jobs is not a place where you train your OC, DC, or even assistant coaches.
 

BoatRacer said:
I think that is the issue I have with the whole thing about Sanford hire. PJ didn't hire him because he respect him. It is totally different from KC. PJ repeatedly said KC was the OC he wanted the moment he got HC job at WMU. KC was also able to ride the wave of RPO in 2018/19. I am sure other coaches adjusted the RPOs more easily in 2021 and know how to defend very well too. Also asking ref. to pay attention to lineman etc.
Also, I don't believe Sanford totally buy into RPO scheme 100%. So he tries to gel with his style of play calling. Here are a few things that undermind his tenure here.
- But he does not have trust from PJ to completely transition into his playbook. I don't know what that is but it is defiantly not KC's playbook.
- He is not man enough to stand up to PJ and say TM is not the guy to run his playbook.
- He is not capable of making in-game adjustments. Many fans can see it from TV, it is hard to fathom he is not aware of it from the press box. If he is indeed that stupid, he should be fired on the spot. He just doesn't trust his players and himself.
- Finally, it is PJ fault 100%. He needs to get a grip. Allow Sanford to do what he thinks he can do or find another one.
- PJ needs to stop thinking of himself as Nick Saben 2.0. It is not his job to polish his buddy's dull coaching careers. B1G jobs is not a place where you train your OC, DC, or even assistant coaches.
Click to expand...
I don’t really disagree with anything you said here
Sanford clearly not getting it done. Think he is a little hamstrung by HC though
 

Some guy said:
I don’t really disagree with anything you said here
Sanford clearly not getting it done. Think he is a little hamstrung by HC though
Click to expand...
Yuppp in 3 words. Totaly cluster *$Y&$UJ#*!
 

Some guy said:
I don’t really disagree with anything you said here
Sanford clearly not getting it done. Think he is a little hamstrung by HC though
Click to expand...
The egg or the chicken. Sanford or Fleck?
 




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