Power 5 ADs: What Happens to College Football If Conferences Can’t Field All of Their Teams?

[BleedGopher]

per McMurphy:

Perhaps the most perplexing question regarding the upcoming college football season is what does a conference do if all of its member schools can’t return their students to campus in the fall?

“That is the billion-dollar question we are dealing with,” a Power Five athletic director said. “The hard stuff is coming now.”

Added another Power Five athletic director: “We’ve all been talking about that and engaging presidents in the mix. It’s a very real possibility — at least at this point.”

Stadium contacted multiple athletic directors from each of the 10 FBS conferences and asked what their respective conference would do if all of their universities weren’t able to play football this fall because of COVID-19.

The responses were as varied as each school’s colors.

“This ultimately is going to come down to what’s in [the] best interest of local schools and communities,” a Power Five AD said.

But in 2020, the membership arrangement of the FBS’ 10 conferences isn’t exactly “local.”

Both the 14-team SEC and 14-team Big Ten have member schools from 11 different states. Conference USA has league members in 10 states, stretching nearly 2,000 miles from Norfolk, Va. to El Paso, Texas. The AAC has league members in nine states, reaching 1,500 miles from Philadelphia to Houston. The ACC, with schools in nine states, stretches 1,500 miles from Miami to Chestnut Hill, Mass.

“This was a topic of discussion last week,” a Power Five athletic director told me. “We’re still working to better understand where each school is heading.”

While university presidents and chancellors will determine when students may return to campus, they’ll base those decisions on a number of factors, including guidelines from their respective state’s government and health officials. Even neighboring states could implement different return dates.

“This is the piece that is perplexing us all right now,” a Power Five AD said. “Additionally, what if a political body in one state says [the schools in that state] can’t play?”

“We cannot afford for a few boats to sink the fleet,” added one Group of Five AD, who asked his fellow league members for recommendations in case the entirety of their conference wasn’t able to play.

The states of Florida, North Carolina and Texas each have schools from four different conferences, while California is the home to four Pac-12 schools and three Mountain West schools. This could impact both leagues since California’s governor and local officials have said it would be unlikely California could hold sporting events before Thanksgiving.

“This is a great question that we often get stuck on — and this could happen,” said a Group of Five AD. “Those that could return, need to go to start the process of getting back to normal. At some point, things will get back on track and if some can safely make it happen, this gives hope for others who can’t. It also puts pressure on those who stand in the doorway preventing economic recovery.”

Added another Group of Five AD: “I could definitely see scenarios where all but one or two schools [from a conference] are ready to proceed and a season is played without them. I think the Group of Five would follow the Power Five’s lead and the Power Five conferences would defer to the TV networks to determine which [schedule] is preferable.”

Stadium

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Go Gophers!!

 

[fmlizard]

This is really the only scenario in which I can see Purdue winning the Big Ten in football.

Purdue University plans to reopen campus for fall 2020, saying coronavirus poses ‘zero lethal threat’ to students

The university joins other schools in setting plans to reopen, as higher education faces a dilemma amid the coronavirus.

thehill.com

 

[Lakeville Goldy]

This is really the only scenario in which I can see Purdue winning the Big Ten in football.

Purdue University plans to reopen campus for fall 2020, saying coronavirus poses ‘zero lethal threat’ to students

The university joins other schools in setting plans to reopen, as higher education faces a dilemma amid the coronavirus.

thehill.com

The sad part is I can't imagine a governor of either Michigan or Ohio doing anything to jeopardize football. Even if it is really needed based on what was happening in the state. It'd be career suicide.

Whereas if the U had a wide open path to the B1G Championship and there wasn't a case in the state I feel like someone would shut them down "just in case". Not meant as a shot to any particular politician, just kind of how things seem to roll for the U.

 

[tikited]

The sad part is I can't imagine a governor of either Michigan or Ohio doing anything to jeopardize football. Even if it is really needed based on what was happening in the state. It'd be career suicide.

Whereas if the U had a wide open path to the B1G Championship and there wasn't a case in the state I feel like someone would shut them down "just in case". Not meant as a shot to any particular politician, just kind of how things seem to roll for the U.

I've thought the same thing. All Universities re-open except the UofM.

 

[MplsGopher]

Minnesota is guaranteed to be open in the fall. So will Wisconsin, and every other Big Ten school.

They want to be open. They think they need it, to ensure their livelihood. They just needed an excuse, needed someone else to go first.

 

[Some guy]

Minnesota is guaranteed to be open in the fall. So will Wisconsin, and every other Big Ten school.

They want to be open. They think they need it, to ensure their livelihood. They just needed an excuse, needed someone else to go first.

Schools need to be open in the fall. If they aren’t, they will need massive government bailo

 

[Veritas]

per McMurphy:

Perhaps the most perplexing question regarding the upcoming college football season is what does a conference do if all of its member schools can’t return their students to campus in the fall?

“That is the billion-dollar question we are dealing with,” a Power Five athletic director said. “The hard stuff is coming now.”

Added another Power Five athletic director: “We’ve all been talking about that and engaging presidents in the mix. It’s a very real possibility — at least at this point.”

Stadium contacted multiple athletic directors from each of the 10 FBS conferences and asked what their respective conference would do if all of their universities weren’t able to play football this fall because of COVID-19.

The responses were as varied as each school’s colors.

“This ultimately is going to come down to what’s in [the] best interest of local schools and communities,” a Power Five AD said.

But in 2020, the membership arrangement of the FBS’ 10 conferences isn’t exactly “local.”

Both the 14-team SEC and 14-team Big Ten have member schools from 11 different states. Conference USA has league members in 10 states, stretching nearly 2,000 miles from Norfolk, Va. to El Paso, Texas. The AAC has league members in nine states, reaching 1,500 miles from Philadelphia to Houston. The ACC, with schools in nine states, stretches 1,500 miles from Miami to Chestnut Hill, Mass.

“This was a topic of discussion last week,” a Power Five athletic director told me. “We’re still working to better understand where each school is heading.”

While university presidents and chancellors will determine when students may return to campus, they’ll base those decisions on a number of factors, including guidelines from their respective state’s government and health officials. Even neighboring states could implement different return dates.

“This is the piece that is perplexing us all right now,” a Power Five AD said. “Additionally, what if a political body in one state says [the schools in that state] can’t play?”

“We cannot afford for a few boats to sink the fleet,” added one Group of Five AD, who asked his fellow league members for recommendations in case the entirety of their conference wasn’t able to play.

The states of Florida, North Carolina and Texas each have schools from four different conferences, while California is the home to four Pac-12 schools and three Mountain West schools. This could impact both leagues since California’s governor and local officials have said it would be unlikely California could hold sporting events before Thanksgiving.

“This is a great question that we often get stuck on — and this could happen,” said a Group of Five AD. “Those that could return, need to go to start the process of getting back to normal. At some point, things will get back on track and if some can safely make it happen, this gives hope for others who can’t. It also puts pressure on those who stand in the doorway preventing economic recovery.”

Added another Group of Five AD: “I could definitely see scenarios where all but one or two schools [from a conference] are ready to proceed and a season is played without them. I think the Group of Five would follow the Power Five’s lead and the Power Five conferences would defer to the TV networks to determine which [schedule] is preferable.”

Stadium

Your Daily Fan Network

watchstadium.com

Go Gophers!!

How is a Big Ten program going to pass on their 54 million dollar share of the Big Ten TV contract? It is simple, they will not.

 

[hungan1]

A more important questions are those students who are barely making it food-wise and had to hold jobs to make ends meet. Most likely, their college dream will be derailed or deferred even longer.

I think it is high time for the university system to have a food pantry for college students. It is heart breaking to hear college kids going hungry. You can't function well without nourishment.

 

[Arthiro]

Schools need to be open in the fall. If they aren’t, they will need massive government bailo

Exactly! The school makes most of its money from students living in dorms. The professors have already take a 20% pay cut at the U. If colleges are closed for the fall, there are going to be a lot of bankrupt schools. The only ones that could survive are the Ivies with their huge endowments. I think the governors know this and won't be able to afford to make that decision.

 

[Livingat45north]

The sad part is I can't imagine a governor of either Michigan or Ohio doing anything to jeopardize football. Even if it is really needed based on what was happening in the state. It'd be career suicide.

Whereas if the U had a wide open path to the B1G Championship and there wasn't a case in the state I feel like someone would shut them down "just in case". Not meant as a shot to any particular politician, just kind of how things seem to roll for the U.

Hmm, not sure about Michigan's gov. But yes, I think we'll be playing football on the weekends. Maybe not so many fans-in-the-stands, but IMO we'll have players on the field.

 

[rickyupchurch]

I've done a 180 on whether we have college football this year. I don't see them putting the kids out there. The NFL on the hand will take a swing at it.

 

[Lakeville Goldy]

I've done a 180 on whether we have college football this year. I don't see them putting the kids out there. The NFL on the hand will take a swing at it.

Yeah, there's a big difference between athletes who are paid to play being asked to go out there and athletes that are amateur. I think they are going to err on the side of caution. Can you imagine if one athlete who "felt compelled to play" ended up dying? It's a liability nightmare, not to mention a PR nightmare (U of WI got my son killed just so they could get money from BTN!!!).

There is also a big difference between colleges being "closed" and distance learning. Apparently Mankato is planning on having only freshmen on campus with only one person per dorm room, but most, if not all, classes will be online. Other schools are considering similar plans. The unfortunate part is things could be night and day different by the time school starts (better or worse), but they are going to have to start making decisions in the next month or so because there are so many ramifications of those decisions.

 

[MplsGopher]

I've done a 180 on whether we have college football this year. I don't see them putting the kids out there. The NFL on the hand will take a swing at it.

Why?

Schools are going to be putting "kids out there", by being physically open on campus this fall. So to me it's a minimal, if really any, leap to having student-athletes competing.

The hard decision will be about what capacity, if anything above 0%, do you allow the public to enter the stands?

 

[MplsGopher]

Can you imagine if one athlete who "felt compelled to play" ended up dying? It's a liability nightmare

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face or someone with legal expertise disproves me:

you require every student-athlete, staff member, and anyone who enters the stadium (TV crew, fans if they allow any, etc.) to sign waivers of liability for the university.

No one is forced to sign. But if you don't sign, you aren't allowed to be present on any university facility.

They probably ask all students and faculty to sign them as well, frankly. They should.

 

[WAGopher]

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face or someone with legal expertise disproves me:

you require every student-athlete, staff member, and anyone who enters the stadium (TV crew, fans if they allow any, etc.) to sign waivers of liability for the university.

No one is forced to sign. But if you don't sign, you aren't allowed to be present on any university facility.

They probably ask all students and faculty to sign them as well, frankly. They should.

Such an agreement probably wouldn’t stand up in court for the similar reasoning why a car dealer can’t sell an unsafe car and have the purchaser waive the dealer’s liabilities. There are many cases where contracts and waivers have been overturned by the courts.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Another consideration -

a number of the medical "experts" - including Fauci and Osterholm - keep talking about a 'second wave' of cases this fall.

That would be the real worst-case scenario: teams start the season, and then there is a significant flare-up in the number of cases. that would really put the teams and administrators in a bind.

Like it or not, Walz has said repeatedly that spectator sports will be one of the last activities to return.

So, unless the number of cases drops off big-time by mid-summer, I do not expect fans in the stands.
There may be games, but they will be played for the benefit of the TV audience.

 

[fmlizard]

This is very likely. I can see states like California and Washington canceling sports while SEC/Big 12 country stays open and demands them.

Right now, the states with the most restrictive COVID guidelines for May have mostly been in the Big Ten footprint. New York/New Jersey, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota -- all are shutting down more things than average, and doing so longer than average.

Are lockdowns being relaxed in my state? Here's how America is reopening amid the coronavirus pandemic.

The majority of states are moving forward with phased-in approaches that vary by county and city as the U.S. reopens amid the coronavirus pandemic.

www.usatoday.com

It's a long time until CFB season, but the way this is breaking down familiar red state/blue state and urban v rural lines makes me think the more liberal parts of the country are going to emerge slower, leading to disparities.

 

[MplsGopher]

Such an agreement probably wouldn’t stand up in court for the similar reasoning why a car dealer can’t sell an unsafe car and have the purchaser waive the dealer’s liabilities. There are many cases where contracts and waivers have been overturned by the courts.

Then how is it possible for a private company that operates a theme park to post signs and essentially implicitly require every person who purchases a ticket to have "signed" an agreement of riding at their own risk??

How is it not almost exactly the same (in spirit)?


You can say that the ride operators should be allowed to be sued for negligence, if they cut corners on maintenance and that can be proven to have caused a malfunction that never should've happened.

But I don't see the equivalent to that for the U.


Campuses are already saying they're going to open this fall. That means kids are going to be on campus this fall, and they're going to be at risk.

If schools are willing to take that risk, and whatever legal implications there may (or may not) be, I just don't see what the difference is.

 

[MplsGopher]

This is very likely. I can see states like California and Washington canceling sports while SEC/Big 12 country stays open and demands them.

Right now, the states with the most restrictive COVID guidelines for May have mostly been in the Big Ten footprint. New York/New Jersey, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota -- all are shutting down more things than average, and doing so longer than average.

Are lockdowns being relaxed in my state? Here's how America is reopening amid the coronavirus pandemic.

The majority of states are moving forward with phased-in approaches that vary by county and city as the U.S. reopens amid the coronavirus pandemic.

www.usatoday.com

It's a long time until CFB season, but the way this is breaking down familiar red state/blue state and urban v rural lines makes me think the more liberal parts of the country are going to emerge slower, leading to disparities.

Big Ten country has some very conservative states, though. Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan. I feel like these are blood red in places. Minn, Iowa, Illinois, New Jersey, Maryland might be overall Democratic, but in the rural areas are as conservative as anywhere (like probably every state in the union).

I think there's almost zero chance that Big Ten football won't be playing at least a full conference schedule. Maybe they'd even do 10 conference games, if the non-conf season is cancelled?

 

[fmlizard]

Big Ten country has some very conservative states, though. Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan. I feel like these are blood red in places. Minn, Iowa, Illinois, New Jersey, Maryland might be overall Democratic, but in the rural areas are as conservative as anywhere (like probably every state in the union).

I think there's almost zero chance that Big Ten football won't be playing at least a full conference schedule. Maybe they'd even do 10 conference games, if the non-conf season is cancelled?

I think it's 50% at best that a season is fully scheduled and completed. Even just a conference one. Risk-averse governors and university administrators for the most part won't care about college football. It won't even be a line item, just part of a blanket ban on crowds.

The no-fans approach seems most likely, but governors have been really risk-averse in the Midwest and nothing's sacred anymore. Either people will grow to accept the death of fun, or there will be a serious push-back. We'll see.

 

[MplsGopher]

Iowa announced that they're resuming football practice on June 1st (planning to, anyway).

That's the first domino. Other schools aren't going to allow them to get an unfair leg-up. Unless the Big Ten comes over the top and bans it, I think they'll all start to fall quickly. And there's no point in practicing if you're not planning to have games of some sort this fall.

Too much TV dollars wrapped up in football, that are the life-blood of these athletics departments, to just ban it altogether. That would be a major risk!

 

[WAGopher]

Then how is it possible for a private company that operates a theme park to post signs and essentially implicitly require every person who purchases a ticket to have "signed" an agreement of riding at their own risk??

How is it not almost exactly the same (in spirit)?


You can say that the ride operators should be allowed to be sued for negligence, if they cut corners on maintenance and that can be proven to have caused a malfunction that never should've happened.

But I don't see the equivalent to that for the U.


Campuses are already saying they're going to open this fall. That means kids are going to be on campus this fall, and they're going to be at risk.

If schools are willing to take that risk, and whatever legal implications there may (or may not) be, I just don't see what the difference is.

You more or less answered your own questions.

Regarding the amusement park. A waiver may not be enforceable for an operator’s gross negligence (i.e., didn’t properly maintain rides) or willful conduct (i.e, didn’t make sure rider‘s seatbelts were fastened).

Regarding stadiums. A waiver may not be enforceable if the stadium allows people to act in a manner that violates government guidelines, rules or laws.

I would think if a stadium could find a way to keep people within any social distancing rules, they could open for games. For fans, this would probably include entering, exiting, seating, rest rooms, concessions and concourses.

 

[MplsGopher]

You more or less answered your own questions.

Regarding the amusement park. A waiver may not be enforceable for an operator’s gross negligence (i.e., didn’t properly maintain rides) or willful conduct (i.e, didn’t make sure rider‘s seatbelts were fastened).

Regarding stadiums. A waiver may not be enforceable if the stadium allows people to act in a manner that violates government guidelines, rules or laws.

I would think if a stadium could find a way to keep people within any social distancing rules, they could open for games. For fans, this would probably include entering, exiting, seating, rest rooms, concessions and concourses.

Ok, but at some point, the school is going to have to accept some level of non-zero risk. They always do, in order to exist. They want and need that revenue, badly enough.

And my further down point is, they're willing to accept all those non-zero risk in order to open campus in the fall to students. Minn hasn't announced that, but I'm certain they will in the coming week or two.

 

[PhillyGopher]

Big Ten country has some very conservative states, though. Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan. I feel like these are blood red in places. Minn, Iowa, Illinois, New Jersey, Maryland might be overall Democratic, but in the rural areas are as conservative as anywhere (like probably every state in the union).

I think there's almost zero chance that Big Ten football won't be playing at least a full conference schedule. Maybe they'd even do 10 conference games, if the non-conf season is cancelled?

I think there is almost zero chance that you would ever listen to anyone else's perspective on an issue

 

[MplsGopher]

I think there is almost zero chance that you would ever listen to anyone else's perspective on an issue

If I replied to someone, then I listened to it/read it.

Just because I don't agree with it, doesn't mean I didn't read/listen.

 

[Ope3]

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face or someone with legal expertise disproves me:

you require every student-athlete, staff member, and anyone who enters the stadium (TV crew, fans if they allow any, etc.) to sign waivers of liability for the university.

No one is forced to sign. But if you don't sign, you aren't allowed to be present on any university facility.

They probably ask all students and faculty to sign them as well, frankly. They should.

Paul Finebaum was on the Dan Patrick show today, his opinion on waivers were that they were not possible for college players/amateurs. Most parents he has spoken with specifically would forbid their sons from signing them.

He reiterated that college football will most likely only happen if students are back on campus and fans are allowed in the stadiums. Regardless of the financial stakes, College/Presidents will not allow it otherwise.

Patrick said the best hope from what he is hearing is a delayed 10 game season, regional opponents only for which teams can travel via bus. Pac12 is in most jeopardy, due distance and number of teams in California.

Not related, DP and Paulie were trying to guess Finebaums favorite band. DP went with Elvis and Paulie took Johnny Cash. Correct answer was Neil Young, which was my guess for what it's worth...