Point for concern

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gophers141

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For those of you who didn't watch the Orange Bowl last night. Mr. Jordan Lynch who Coach Kill is so high on finished with the following stats:

Rushing: 23 attempts for 44 yards (1.9 yards per carry)
Passing: 15/41 for 176 yards
(220 YARDS OF TOTAL OFFENSE)
-Northern Illinois finished with 259 total yards of offense.

This was Kill's prototype QB for his offense, which is still being run at NIU. Saw a lot of familiar looking sets and plays last night too.

Watching that game it is pretty clear that against an athletic defense Kill's offensive scheme is inefficient.
Lynch and that type of offense can be successful in the MAC against smaller and slower defenses but in the Big Ten against bigger and faster opposition it is difficult to find success.
The system seems to put way too much pressure on the QB. It is a lot to ask of the QB to take the pounding of 15-20 carries in the Big Ten and then ask him to make critical throws on the numbers.
It was a pleasant surprise to see so many heavy running formations in the bowl. I just hope Claeys and Kill aren't stubborn with our offense in the Big Ten.
 

I also think you are forgetting that NIUs O line was small and manhandled. This will not be the ase here at MN. He also had a bad night throwing, whether this was caused by defense or nerves , not sure but we will give QB more time to throw.
 

gopher1more said:
I also think you are forgetting that NIUs O line was small and manhandled. This will not be the ase here at MN. He also had a bad night throwing, whether this was caused by defense or nerves , not sure but we will give QB more time to throw.
Click to expand...

The NIU OL is also very young (according to the broadcast last night) which contributed to them being manhandled by FSU.
 

gophers141 said:
For those of you who didn't watch the Orange Bowl last night. Mr. Jordan Lynch who Coach Kill is so high on finished with the following stats:

Rushing: 23 attempts for 44 yards (1.9 yards per carry)
Passing: 15/41 for 176 yards
(220 YARDS OF TOTAL OFFENSE)
-Northern Illinois finished with 259 total yards of offense.

This was Kill's prototype QB for his offense, which is still being run at NIU. Saw a lot of familiar looking sets and plays last night too.

Watching that game it is pretty clear that against an athletic defense Kill's offensive scheme is inefficient.
Lynch and that type of offense can be successful in the MAC against smaller and slower defenses but in the Big Ten against bigger and faster opposition it is difficult to find success.
The system seems to put way too much pressure on the QB. It is a lot to ask of the QB to take the pounding of 15-20 carries in the Big Ten and then ask him to make critical throws on the numbers.
It was a pleasant surprise to see so many heavy running formations in the bowl. I just hope Claeys and Kill aren't stubborn with our offense in the Big Ten.
Click to expand...

We could only have a valid comparison if the Gophers played in the Apple Bowl.
 

gophers141 said:
For those of you who didn't watch the Orange Bowl last night. Mr. Jordan Lynch who Coach Kill is so high on finished with the following stats:

Rushing: 23 attempts for 44 yards (1.9 yards per carry)
Passing: 15/41 for 176 yards
(220 YARDS OF TOTAL OFFENSE)
-Northern Illinois finished with 259 total yards of offense.

This was Kill's prototype QB for his offense, which is still being run at NIU. Saw a lot of familiar looking sets and plays last night too.

Watching that game it is pretty clear that against an athletic defense Kill's offensive scheme is inefficient.
Lynch and that type of offense can be successful in the MAC against smaller and slower defenses but in the Big Ten against bigger and faster opposition it is difficult to find success.
The system seems to put way too much pressure on the QB. It is a lot to ask of the QB to take the pounding of 15-20 carries in the Big Ten and then ask him to make critical throws on the numbers.
It was a pleasant surprise to see so many heavy running formations in the bowl. I just hope Claeys and Kill aren't stubborn with our offense in the Big Ten.
Click to expand...

NIU's problem wasn't their system. It was being out-classed talent-wise at every position.
 


Gophers141, I hate to say unkind things, but you're a moron and I wish I could stab you in the eye with a rusty nail.

You're citing the stats of the losing QB from the ORANGE BOWL to prove that Kill can't win. The ORANGE BOWL.
 

gophers141 said:
For those of you who didn't watch the Orange Bowl last night. Mr. Jordan Lynch who Coach Kill is so high on finished with the following stats:

Rushing: 23 attempts for 44 yards (1.9 yards per carry)
Passing: 15/41 for 176 yards
(220 YARDS OF TOTAL OFFENSE)
-Northern Illinois finished with 259 total yards of offense.

This was Kill's prototype QB for his offense, which is still being run at NIU. Saw a lot of familiar looking sets and plays last night too.

Watching that game it is pretty clear that against an athletic defense Kill's offensive scheme is inefficient.
Lynch and that type of offense can be successful in the MAC against smaller and slower defenses but in the Big Ten against bigger and faster opposition it is difficult to find success.
The system seems to put way too much pressure on the QB. It is a lot to ask of the QB to take the pounding of 15-20 carries in the Big Ten and then ask him to make critical throws on the numbers.
It was a pleasant surprise to see so many heavy running formations in the bowl. I just hope Claeys and Kill aren't stubborn with our offense in the Big Ten.
Click to expand...

Nelson doesn't run it 15-20 times a game. The most attempts he's had was 16 all the other games were 12 or less attempts. The attempts are not an issue, consistently going for 20+ attempts like Lynch did could be tough to do in the big10, but guys like Taylor Martinez, Kain Colter, Johnny Manziel, and Colin Klein all run the ball a lot. I don't think Kill is going to have Nelson run as much as those 4. However just because Gray couldn't handle that workload doesn't mean other players can't.
 


EKMN makes a good point. Others have pointed out the talent levels on the teams: don't forget this - no player* on the NIU team had an offer from any AQ-conference school.

* = I didn't look it up, so maybe there was a guy or 2, but it's very close to zero.
 



thank you for posting a GOPHER football related thread. i am guessing physicians assistant don, sumtimegophs, grant and a few others will not be replying to it at all though.......since it is a GOPHER related thread and all and doesn't have anything to do with the fighting bizun of minot, south dakota. :p

that said, and as another posted already noted, asking or inferring the question of whether coach kill can win and using a team playing in the orange bowl as a reference point seems to invalidate your theory. i think coach kill's offensive system is sound. it is the total caliber of offensive athletes all-around (especially on the o-line) that will make the difference between how NIU performed in that game against FSU and how i believe the U of M would perform against FSU in the same game once "all systems are go" and the system is fully in place here. and i think they U of M will be able to attract a higher talent level of offensive recruit and bigger/stronger offensive players than NIU can. especially on the o-line.
 

gophers141 said:
For those of you who didn't watch the Orange Bowl last night. Mr. Jordan Lynch who Coach Kill is so high on finished with the following stats:

Rushing: 23 attempts for 44 yards (1.9 yards per carry)
Passing: 15/41 for 176 yards
(220 YARDS OF TOTAL OFFENSE)
-Northern Illinois finished with 259 total yards of offense.

This was Kill's prototype QB for his offense, which is still being run at NIU. Saw a lot of familiar looking sets and plays last night too.

Watching that game it is pretty clear that against an athletic defense Kill's offensive scheme is inefficient.
Lynch and that type of offense can be successful in the MAC against smaller and slower defenses but in the Big Ten against bigger and faster opposition it is difficult to find success.
The system seems to put way too much pressure on the QB. It is a lot to ask of the QB to take the pounding of 15-20 carries in the Big Ten and then ask him to make critical throws on the numbers.
It was a pleasant surprise to see so many heavy running formations in the bowl. I just hope Claeys and Kill aren't stubborn with our offense in the Big Ten.
Click to expand...

1. I think Mike Dunbar would tell you this wasn't Kill's (Limegrover's) offense. He spent the last two years changing it.

2. They had a bizarre situation at Offensive Coordinator with Dunbar starting the season, then stepping down due to health issues. Rod Carey takes over mid-season when the only other OC position he held was at Stout. Then to make matters worse, he gets promoted to head coach for the game and had to divide his attention. Might explain some of the play calling and lack of adjustments during the game.

3. Jordan Lynch had a very bad game. There were times he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. That doesn't mean the offense is flawed. There were several plays he just flat out missed.

4. FSU has one of the best defenses in the nation and has shut down some very prolific offenses.

5. One would expect a difference in talent at a B1G school than at a MAC school. Obviously Kill will have to prove that out with his recruiting.

I think to take one game played by another team (especially a big time matchup like the Orange Bowl) and say that the Minnesota offense is inherently flawed is not a legitimate comparison. That being said, I also hope Kill and Limegrover (Claeys is DC) are not stubborn. The B1G isn't the MAC and some things will work and some things will need adjusting.
 


Yep. Clearly a system flaw. Has absolutely nothing to do with playing one of the elite defenses in the country.
 



They are in the orange bowl because of a soft schedule the likes of which Kill will never see here. So I'm not going to jump on the OP about that. Can Kill's system win against higher level defenses is the question, none of those in the MAC. It is a valid question, I can't say I LOVE our offense, however as I noted I don't think the running workload of the QB is an issue.
 

Credit to NIU for playing the system. On the broadcast last night NIU had the 120th Strongest schedual in the country. 120th! And they get into a BCS bowl. Something doesnt add up there.
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
1. I think Mike Dunbar would tell you this wasn't Kill's (Limegrover's) offense. He spent the last two years changing it.
Click to expand...

I was actually watching for that, I thought their offense seemed more like our current offense than our offense under Dunbar. I was specifically watching the OL and the sets, they seemed to be using a lot of multiple TE/H-Back sets and their offensive line looked schematically similar to ours. But that was one of the things that I was looking for in the game (to see a compare/contrast with their offense with ours and Dunbar's other offenses).
 

NIU is a MAC team playing FSU in the Orange Bowl. Think about that for a second before you start in about how Kill's offense won't work in the B1G.
 

cjcarter8 said:
Yep. Clearly a system flaw. Has absolutely nothing to do with playing one of the elite defenses in the country.
Click to expand...

They average FSU lineman weighed 50 lbs. more than his NIU counterpart. That doesn't help either.
 

Show me a winning offensive scheme and I'll show you great players that run it...show me the same scheme with mediocre or young players and I'll show you a losing offensive scheme.

Every coach looks like a freaking genius when he has great players and senior leadership.
 

Point of Concern....you've got to be kidding? NIU playing FSU and NIU getting manhandled and their quarterback having a tough game is a reason that you are concerned about Kill's system? Boy you had to dig deep for that one.
 

Are we talking about the same Jordan Lynch who was named 2nd team AP All American, or is there another Jordan Lynch on that team?

SMH.
 

RochesterGopher said:
Credit to NIU for playing the system. On the broadcast last night NIU had the 120th Strongest schedual in the country. 120th! And they get into a BCS bowl. Something doesnt add up there.
Click to expand...

More than anything, it's the coaches and press who ranked them that high that's the problem. Most can't follow college football that closely. They were not the 15th ranked team in the country. If they were ranked where they should have been, it's not a big deal.
 

gophmeister said:
NIU is a MAC team playing FSU in the Orange Bowl. Think about that for a second before you start in about how Kill's offense won't work in the B1G.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input but that is exactly my point.

NIU was a MAC team that got to play a MAC schedule and rack up yards and points against MAC foes. They faced a bad IOWA team this year that held their potent attack to 18 points and FSU held them to 10.

My point is simply this: Kill's offense worked against MAC opponents but now he has to play against defenses that can be just as good as Florida State. He no longer gets to rack up 500+ yards against Akron and Eastern Michigan. The talent level is much higher on defense now and I know I'm not the only one that would voice their displeasure with our offense and play calling this season.
 

btowngopher said:
They are in the orange bowl because of a soft schedule the likes of which Kill will never see here. So I'm not going to jump on the OP about that. Can Kill's system win against higher level defenses is the question, none of those in the MAC. It is a valid question, I can't say I LOVE our offense, however as I noted I don't think the running workload of the QB is an issue.
Click to expand...

Scheme doesn't win or lose games. Talent does. If Kill puts a competent BIG10 (not MAC, BIG10) team on the field, they could run the wishbone and be successful. Any scheme can work in BCS football as long as the team is talented and disciplined enough to execute it.
 

gophers141 said:
Thanks for your input but that is exactly my point.

NIU was a MAC team that got to play a MAC schedule and rack up yards and points against MAC foes. They faced a bad IOWA team this year that held their potent attack to 18 points and FSU held them to 10.

My point is simply this: Kill's offense worked against MAC opponents but now he has to play against defenses that can be just as good as Florida State. He no longer gets to rack up 500+ yards against Akron and Eastern Michigan. The talent level is much higher on defense now and I know I'm not the only one that would voice their displeasure with our offense and play calling this season.
Click to expand...

Your point was that the difference between NIU and FSU was not the talent on the teams, but the systems they ran. Given the talent difference between the teams, this is a position that is hard to take seriously. NIU being a MAC team with MAC-level talent undermines your position.
 


I agree with RodentRampage. The talent wasn't there for NIU to win. What I tried to say in my first post was that NIU was getting mauled because they did not have the OL talent to handle Florida State but the Gophers should have the talent and should fare better. It won't be known until the Gophers get the chance to play in a game of that caliber.
 

supadupafly said:
thank you for posting a GOPHER football related thread. i am guessing physicians assistant don, sumtimegophs, grant and a few others will not be replying to it at all though.......since it is a GOPHER related thread and all and doesn't have anything to do with the fighting bizun of minot, south dakota. :p

that said, and as another posted already noted, asking or inferring the question of whether coach kill can win and using a team playing in the orange bowl as a reference point seems to invalidate your theory. i think coach kill's offensive system is sound. it is the total caliber of offensive athletes all-around (especially on the o-line) that will make the difference between how NIU performed in that game against FSU and how i believe the U of M would perform against FSU in the same game once "all systems are go" and the system is fully in place here. and i think they U of M will be able to attract a higher talent level of offensive recruit and bigger/stronger offensive players than NIU can. especially on the o-line.
Click to expand...

Good points...
 

gophers141 said:
Thanks for your input but that is exactly my point.

NIU was a MAC team that got to play a MAC schedule and rack up yards and points against MAC foes. They faced a bad IOWA team this year that held their potent attack to 18 points and FSU held them to 10.

My point is simply this: Kill's offense worked against MAC opponents but now he has to play against defenses that can be just as good as Florida State. He no longer gets to rack up 500+ yards against Akron and Eastern Michigan. The talent level is much higher on defense now and I know I'm not the only one that would voice their displeasure with our offense and play calling this season.
Click to expand...

Did you watch the bowl game? I feel much better about the O now that I've seen them healthy. I know that TT isn't a powerhouse but they are still a Big 12 school and we put up 31 points. I'm excited to see where the offense goes with an upperclass o-line and non-true-freshman QB
 

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