Plea to give Jerry Kill his honeymoon

dinkything

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We've often heard of the Brew's crown jewel -- the Gophers' recruiting class of 2008.
Much has been mentioned in glowing terms, both on these boards and elsewhere, of the anticipated impact of these recruits on the Gopher program.

This 2008 class received 31 verbal commitments heading toward NLOI Signing Day, and was initially ranked 17th in the nation, until later being revised downward because not all the verbal commitments actually showed up in dinkytown in August, 2008.

It's understood that one cannot have a full appreciation of a football recruiting class until 3 or 4 years down the road.

So, 3-1/2 years after faxing in their signed NLOI's, it might be an appropriate time to have a look at where things are at with this recruiting class, as of June, 2011.
Here are a few of the class of 2008 student-athletes (not randomly selected), and their respective status:

-4* DT Tim McGee..........never showed up
-4* WR Vince Hill............never showed up
-4* LB Sam Maresh.........medical issues, then to JUCO in Iowa, not sure where he is now
-4* CB Tray Simmons......elegibility expired (JUCO)
-4* LB Rex Sharpe..........elegibility expired (JUCO)
-4* WR David Pittman.....elegibility expired (JUCO)
-3* LB Simoni Lawrence...elegibility expired (JUCO)
-2* DE Cedric McKinley....elegibility expired (JUCO)
-3* OT Roszell Gaden......diverted from Dinkytown, went to JUCO, then to Auburn
-3* WR/CB J. Dandridge...transferred out in late '09
-2* RB/DE/LB T.Combs....gone
-3* S Tramaine Brock......gone after 4 months due to academics
-3* WR Broderick Smith...transferred in 2009
-2* QB John Nance.........transferred out to play basketball
-3* RB Kevin Whaley.......repeated thuggery got him a one-way bus ticket home to Virginia
-2* RB Deleon Eskridge....2010 starter will NOT return for 2011 season
-2* DT Jewhan Edwards...another 2010 starter who will NOT return for 2011

There may be a few others whose status is uncertain, as everyone remaining is now in summer school.

With over 1/2 the class already gone -- not to mention the coach who recruited them -- there will be significantly fewer student-athletes than expected to make that much-anticipated impact in 2011 while wearing maroon and gold.

Of those remaining and in summer school, there should be several starters on defense, including CB Troy Stoudermire, DT Brandon Kirksey, possibly LB Gary Tinsley, although he spent a good chunk of the spring running with the 2's and 3's. Starters on offense should be QB/WR MarQueis Gray, WR Da'Jon McKnight, WR Brandon Green (if healthy), and TE Eric Lair.

Interestingly, there could be five 2011 starters who verbally committed to Glen Mason in 2006:

-OL's Ryan Wynn, Ryan Orton, and Chris Bunders
-RB Duane Bennett
-DL Anthony Jacobs

Bottom line: let's give Jerry Kill his honeymoon, so that he has an opportunity to incorporate his systems, philosophies, methods, etc. into the Gopher program.
He has his work cut out for him.
 

Absolutely !

Good recap. I wonder what happened to Whaley? Brewster gave him more rope than most. I was skeptical when he got the gun shot wound. He seemed like the type of kid who always attracted trouble. Hopefully, he got his life straightened out.
 



Just goes to show why it's so preposterous to follow and rank college football recruits.
 


This 2008 class...was initially ranked 17th in the nation, until later being revised downward

Not sure where you got this idea, but this is absolutely, 100%, not true. Rivals does not go back and "revise downward" their team or prospect rankings. Minnesota remains at 17th for 2008 to this day.

Just goes to show why it's so preposterous to follow and rank college football recruits.

Simple, honest question - do you understand math? I mean, do you get how it works?
 

Not sure where you got this idea, but this is absolutely, 100%, not true. Rivals does not go back and "revise downward" their team or prospect rankings. Minnesota remains at 17th for 2008 to this day.

Actually, there is a place where they do revised rankings. It's not on their main part though, but I've seen it before, and I think someone posted it once before. Minnesota was like 28th or something like that after accounting for players who actually signed with the teams, so not accounting for guys like Vince Hill or Tim McGee. He's not just throwing stuff to the wall, but like I said, I don't recall how they got to it.
 

Of course, another way to look at the 2008 class is that there were 28 signed (which I think is the limit in the B1G). Of these 28, to date, something like 15 became starters.
 

Not sure where you got this idea, but this is absolutely, 100%, not true. Rivals does not go back and "revise downward" their team or prospect rankings. Minnesota remains at 17th for 2008 to this day.



Simple, honest question - do you understand math? I mean, do you get how it works?

I fully understand the methodology and can have some, limited appreciation for the effort that goes into the analysis of rankings and their correlation to winning.

But the fact of the matter is that the credibility of any statistics is coupled to the credibility of the source data. And the source of recruiting "data" is some guy's head as he's making it up.
 




The Killer will get the same honeymoon period as Brewster. One game.

I think there's a slight difference between opening at home against Bowling Green, versus going to Los Angeles to play USC lol. Kill gets at least two games so he can have that home one against NMSU ;)
 

the credibility of any statistics is coupled to the credibility of the source data. And the source of recruiting "data" is some guy's head as he's making it up.

Huh? So you're telling me that the Rivals recruiting analysts are employed by college teams? That they get to cast votes in the Coaches' Poll that helps to determine the participants in each year's national championship game?

Moreover, they are employed by NFL teams, and get to decide which players NFL teams draft?

What you're suggesting is an enormous breach of ethics.

Can you believe this, guys? One of the biggest cases of malfeasance in the history of sports, and the news is being broken by an anonymous Bison fan right here on GopherHole.com? What are the odds of that?

So, Bison, let's look at, for example, Rivals football recruiting analyst Mike Farrell. Can you tell me which college team he works for? Or is that privileged information? What NFL team does he work for? It's ok, you can tell us. I'm sure we can work with the attorneys to get you indemnity against any reprisals that may come your way as a result of revealing this information. The only reason I am asking these questions is that I am compiling a dossier to submit to authorities about the ethics violations in these cases. Keep fighting the good fight! We'll bring these SOBs down!

Oh, one more question - is it only the Rivals analysts who are employed by college and NFL teams? Or are the analysts from Scout, ESPN, and 247 in on this conspiracy as well?
 




What exactly do you mean by this? If Brewster's honeymoon was one game, don't you think they would have fired him after going 1-11?

That's the difference between the end of the honeymoon and the beginning of marital strife.
 

That's the difference between the end of the honeymoon and the beginning of marital strife.

Well said.

As for Jerry Kill and Company, I still wish them well. I think the team can be very exciting to watch, but the team will continue to lag the B1G for at least 3 years. We need not only great coaches who can develop players and can out-coach the other team; but, we need recruiters who can persuade and overcome 40 years of being in the wilderness. If the team can move to .500 ball in the B1G in 3 years, I will be amazed. If they can move anywhere above that by year 4, I'll start fund raising for the bronze statue. But, maybe we should start the fund raising for the great coaches who have spent more than 15 nanoseconds here and had great records. If we want to impress the youth of America, put them in bronze with their records of accomplishment. And put the greatest one in the main terminal at the airport so that everybody can see and admire.
 

Huh? So you're telling me that the Rivals recruiting analysts are employed by college teams? That they get to cast votes in the Coaches' Poll that helps to determine the participants in each year's national championship game?

Moreover, they are employed by NFL teams, and get to decide which players NFL teams draft?

What you're suggesting is an enormous breach of ethics.

Can you believe this, guys? One of the biggest cases of malfeasance in the history of sports, and the news is being broken by an anonymous Bison fan right here on GopherHole.com? What are the odds of that?

So, Bison, let's look at, for example, Rivals football recruiting analyst Mike Farrell. Can you tell me which college team he works for? Or is that privileged information? What NFL team does he work for? It's ok, you can tell us. I'm sure we can work with the attorneys to get you indemnity against any reprisals that may come your way as a result of revealing this information. The only reason I am asking these questions is that I am compiling a dossier to submit to authorities about the ethics violations in these cases. Keep fighting the good fight! We'll bring these SOBs down!

Oh, one more question - is it only the Rivals analysts who are employed by college and NFL teams? Or are the analysts from Scout, ESPN, and 247 in on this conspiracy as well?

Dude... I think yer reaching a bit too far on this one.. lol
 

The 2008 class proved you could recruit to Minnesota and Brewster followed it up with another good year in 2009. People seem to quickly forget that it was not just national recruits starting to choose Minnesota over highly regarded programs, but that Brewster locked up the local kids. Guys like Hageman, Garin, T.Olson, Alipate, Gjere etc were kids that were not choosing Minnesota before Brewster's arrival.

I find it funny that a Masonite like dinkything is pleading for a honeymoon for Jerry Kill, when his little group didn't give Brewster a chance. That said, I agree that Jerry Kill should get a honeymoon, but we've established a time frame for when success has to be achieved. Brewster was essentially on his way out after 3 years (and 2 classic Mason seasons). I hope Kill is the right guy to finally get this program going and I don't see anyone on the board hoping he fails.
 

Huh? So you're telling me that the Rivals recruiting analysts are employed by college teams? That they get to cast votes in the Coaches' Poll that helps to determine the participants in each year's national championship game?

Moreover, they are employed by NFL teams, and get to decide which players NFL teams draft?

What you're suggesting is an enormous breach of ethics.

Can you believe this, guys? One of the biggest cases of malfeasance in the history of sports, and the news is being broken by an anonymous Bison fan right here on GopherHole.com? What are the odds of that?

So, Bison, let's look at, for example, Rivals football recruiting analyst Mike Farrell. Can you tell me which college team he works for? Or is that privileged information? What NFL team does he work for? It's ok, you can tell us. I'm sure we can work with the attorneys to get you indemnity against any reprisals that may come your way as a result of revealing this information. The only reason I am asking these questions is that I am compiling a dossier to submit to authorities about the ethics violations in these cases. Keep fighting the good fight! We'll bring these SOBs down!

Oh, one more question - is it only the Rivals analysts who are employed by college and NFL teams? Or are the analysts from Scout, ESPN, and 247 in on this conspiracy as well?

I don't think any of the analysts are being paid off by colleges or the NFL. No idea what you're going on about.

The data isn't credible because it's being made up. Therefore, statistical analysis derived from it is not credible.
 

I don't think any of the analysts are being paid off by colleges or the NFL. No idea what you're going on about.

I was giving you credit for having a modicum of intelligence. I can see that I've greatly overestimated you in that regard.

The data isn't credible because it's being made up. Therefore, statistical analysis derived from it is not credible.

So, you don't understand math. It doesn't matter how the data was derived. There is a positive correlation between recruiting rankings and individual player success, as well as a positive correlation between recruiting rankings and team success. It has been statistically proven. You cherry-picking counterexamples disproves neither of these facts. And yes, they are incontrovertible facts. The data has been posted here and elsewhere. I don't know why you continue to be purposefully obtuse. You are a NDAC fan, though, so I guess the question answers itself. I just wish you wouldn't be purposefully obtuse on my board.
 

Really

I don't think any of the analysts are being paid off by colleges or the NFL. No idea what you're going on about.

The data isn't credible because it's being made up. Therefore, statistical analysis derived from it is not credible.

They must be very good at making it up because there is high correlation in the results from several perspectives. Maybe you are on to something - the correlation of made up data.

The only thing that is being made up is your statement that the data is being made up. If you understood anything about statistics you wouldn’t be making such a stupid comment.
 

I agree there is a correlation between the very top ranked players going to the NFL as well as a correlation of teams with the most of the very top players winning a lot of games, although there are obvious exceptions (Alabama this year had 4 first rounders).

Who can't rank the very top players as the very top players? My grandmother can do that.


The fallacy comes when you try to justify the entire heaping, scammy system by the fact that they rank the very top players as the very top players. Just because some guy can rank the top QB as the top QB doesn't prove that he can rank the 4th best QB from the 5th best QB. And it just gets worse as you go down.
 

Not sure where you got this idea, but this is absolutely, 100%, not true. Rivals does not go back and "revise downward" their team or prospect rankings. Minnesota remains at 17th for 2008 to this day.
Enrolled Rankings 2008 Article
Year-by-year enrolled rankings

The 2008 Gophers class ended up at #35 after the enrolled rankings came out.

MN Enrolled Rankings
'05: #53
'06: #61
'07: #54
'08: #35
'09: #48
'10: 50+ (They only list the top 50 for 2010.)
 




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