Playing not to lose

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bga1

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Usually results in losing. Tonight was Tubby's best coached game for the first 35 minutes. Other than the inevitable early hockey line change he pulled all the right strings. Switch to the zone and it worked great. Ran some great offensive sets -some of the best movement for much of the game that I have seen. Had a great inbounds play that sent Coleman to the line.

Then with the Gophers playing with nice pace and with good offensive flow- the stall. This is a team that cannot play slowdown ball. It's inexplicable. To Tubby's credit I heard him take some blame for not preparing the players better for late game and he did admit to slowing it down. Unfortunately- I think he'd do it again. Great game but sad to see a really nice effort go down the drain- both players and coaches are to be praised and then blamed for a game that should have put us back on the bubble.
 

Ya Tubby did a good job of coaching today other than I think at the end of the game he needs to get those guys to attack, not kill the clock. We don't have anyone that consistently score with the clock running down and until we do we need to take easy shots when we can get them.
 

bga1 said:
Usually results in losing. Tonight was Tubby's best coached game for the first 35 minutes. Other than the inevitable early hockey line change he pulled all the right strings. Switch to the zone and it worked great. Ran some great offensive sets -some of the best movement for much of the game that I have seen. Had a great inbounds play that sent Coleman to the line.

Then with the Gophers playing with nice pace and with good offensive flow- the stall. This is a team that cannot play slowdown ball. It's inexplicable. To Tubby's credit I heard him take some blame for not preparing the players better for late game and he did admit to slowing it down. Unfortunately- I think he's do it again. Great game but sad to see a really nice effort go down the drain- both players and coaches are to be praised and then blamed for a game that should have put us back on the bubble.
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Just posted the same elsewhere. We lack the versatility and a true go-to guy for the stall, altho Julian made it work at first. This one was so demoralizing - I couldn't listen the postgame on the way home...
 

I'd say it got shaky from a coaching perspective before the final 5 minutes, but I agree with just about everything else. We've seen this same slowdown strategy fail multiple times under Tubby and I don't understand why he keeps going back to it. We have not had a team that could execute efficiently in a half court offense during his tenure (never mind one that will make plays in the last 5 seconds of the shot clock) yet we keep trying to slow the pace late in games when we have the lead. Tonight it was way too early in the game to do it, even if milking the clock was a sound strategy for your team. We still don't have a PG, we still don't have a SG/SF that can break anyone down off the dribble, and those are major impediments to getting buckets in a half court offense if you don't run an excellent set.
 

Moonlight said:
Just posted the same elsewhere. We lack the versatility and a true go-to guy for the stall, altho Julian made it work at first. This one was so demoralizing - I couldn't listen the postgame on the way home...
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Very demoralizing. It could have been a floor rusher for the students and a nice moment for a program looking for a break.
 


Agree with all of the above. Starting at about the 15 minute mark, I kept looking at the clock thinking "this clock can't run out soon enough." Unfortunately it looks like the team was thinking the same thing. That CAN'T be your mindset if you're a player/coach.
 

How about play the last 5 minutes like the first 5 minutes?
 

How about, when you're up 9, think in terms of winning going away instead of hanging on for a narrow victory? Playing a team the caliber of MSU, that narrow victory is a mirage; it doesn't exist. It turns into Michigan State winning going away.

So much of this is mental.
 

Bad Gopher said:
How about, when you're up 9, think in terms of winning going away instead of hanging on for a narrow victory? Playing a team the caliber of MSU, that narrow victory is a mirage; it doesn't exist. It turns into Michigan State winning going away.

So much of this is mental.
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Yeah well unfortunately the refs decided that when Payne literally threw Ralph to the ground, that they'd give Ralph a foul too for being Payne's rag doll, and that inexplicable 3rd foul pretty much guaranteed Ralph to have to go to the bench for a while. His 4th foul was pretty questionable as well. Considering it was Ralph's only really good game this year, those questionable calls hurt a ton. Considering they did it to our only senior on our home court is just demoralizing. We get zero. breaks. ever.
 



cncmin said:
Yeah well unfortunately the refs decided that when Payne literally threw Ralph to the ground, that they'd give Ralph a foul too for being Payne's rag doll, and that inexplicable 3rd foul pretty much guaranteed Ralph to have to go to the bench for a while. His 4th foul was pretty questionable as well. Considering it was Ralph's only really good game this year, those questionable calls hurt a ton. Considering they did it to our only senior on our home court is just demoralizing. We get zero. breaks. ever.
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Yeah cncmin, that call, oh man! If I'm Tubby, my assistants are going to have to hold me back from the refs. I think after that 4th foul on Ralph he didn't re-enter till under a minute left. Another game that could have been a W. Yep, played not to lose and got bit by it.
 

The foul on Ralph was a joke. Our coaching staff spends little time working officals and in the course of a season it hurts us. To play not to lose you need tough minded ,shot making guards. We have none at this time.
 

zambam said:
Ya Tubby did a good job of coaching today other than I think at the end of the game he needs to get those guys to attack, not kill the clock. We don't have anyone that consistently score with the clock running down and until we do we need to take easy shots when we can get them.
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You don't get easy shots without quick, crisp passing. The Gophers' passes are delayed and tentative. They don't play well as a team. I don't know whether that's Smith's scheme or the result of the types of players he recruits, but effective passing is rare.
 

Blackhammer said:
The foul on Ralph was a joke. Our coaching staff spends little time working officals and in the course of a season it hurts us. To play not to lose you need tough minded ,shot making guards. We have none at this time.
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It is rather laughable that any ref could possibly see Ralphie as the aggressor in any confrontation.
 



I don't get why teams do this. Why not just stay with the style that got you the lead? Clearly something was working. Why change it up with 5 mins left??
 

sidefx182 said:
I don't get why teams do this. Why not just stay with the style that got you the lead? Clearly something was working. Why change it up with 5 mins left??
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The person next to me at the game said, "Oh, no! The prevent offense." He called it. Things went to heck starting right then.
 

Bad Gopher said:
The person next to me at the game said, "Oh, no! The prevent offense." He called it. Things went to heck starting right then.
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Yup. It's not even like its just a tubby thing. Nearly every coach in ever sport does this. It is one of the most baffling things.
 

The playing not to lose mentality has been my biggest frustration with Tubby since he arrived at MN. This is not a new issue. Tubby loves the delay offense at the end of the game. The problem is you need and experienced and talented point guard to make it work. We have neither. And regarding Ralph (who probably played his best game of the year) and his fould trouble, it is hard for me to blame the ref's when Ralph committed an intentional foul on a Michigan State player right before the half. It reminded me of the foul to give situation you see in the NBA all the time that drives me crazy. The foul added no value as Michigan scored on a driving layup a few seconds later. That additional foul caused Ralph to sit on the bench a significant amount of time in the second half.
 

CDH27 said:
The playing not to lose mentality has been my biggest frustration with Tubby since he arrived at MN. This is not a new issue. Tubby loves the delay offense at the end of the game. The problem is you need and experienced and talented point guard to make it work. We have neither. And regarding Ralph (who probably played his best game of the year) and his fould trouble, it is hard for me to blame the ref's when Ralph committed an intentional foul on a Michigan State player right before the half. It reminded me of the foul to give situation you see in the NBA all the time that drives me crazy. The foul added no value as Michigan scored on a driving layup a few seconds later. That additional foul caused Ralph to sit on the bench a significant amount of time in the second half.
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The other bad thing about that foul- IIRC- there was a 3.6 shot clock to time clock differential- until we fouled. Once we fouled MSU got to wind the clock fully down before they made their shot- allowing us no time for one ourselves. This is yet another case of coaches or kids that are either not aware of game situation or playing it incorrectly if they are.

Rodney fouling with 3 seconds on the shot clock
Austin firing an off balance three with 20 seconds on the clock and the game tied
The foul at the end of the first half

If one didn't know better - one would say this is either early in the season mistakes or poor coaching. But we know it's late in the season and we know that Tubby doesn't screw up. So that's out.
 

bga1 said:
The other bad thing about that foul- IIRC- there was a 3.6 shot clock to time clock differential- until we fouled. Once we fouled MSU got to wind the clock fully down before they made their shot- allowing us no time for one ourselves. This is yet another case of coaches or kids that are either not aware of game situation or playing it incorrectly if they are.

Rodney fouling with 3 seconds on the shot clock
Austin firing an off balance three with 20 seconds on the clock and the game tied
The foul at the end of the first half

If one didn't know better - one would say this is either early in the season mistakes or poor coaching. But we know it's late in the season and we know that Tubby doesn't screw up. So that's out.
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That leaves only voodoo.
 

I was actually OK with the spread/stall offense when they first went into it. MSU was clogging all the driving lanes, and the only way we would have been able to score was by the 3. Then when we went into the 4 corners, we were able to get two good looks on cuts to the basket. The only problem was that Ralph was the one that was making the interior feeds. Once he got his 4th and headed to the bench, we lost our distributor for that offensive set. That is the point where I think Tubby had to realize to change out of the stall, or bring back Ralph earlier and risk his 5th.
 

CDH27 said:
The playing not to lose mentality has been my biggest frustration with Tubby since he arrived at MN. This is not a new issue. Tubby loves the delay offense at the end of the game. The problem is you need and experienced and talented point guard to make it work. We have neither. And regarding Ralph (who probably played his best game of the year) and his fould trouble, it is hard for me to blame the ref's when Ralph committed an intentional foul on a Michigan State player right before the half. It reminded me of the foul to give situation you see in the NBA all the time that drives me crazy. The foul added no value as Michigan scored on a driving layup a few seconds later. That additional foul caused Ralph to sit on the bench a significant amount of time in the second half.
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Or...what Nolen would have done was just drive to the basket himself and draw a foul. Over and over again until the game was over.
 

We have given away plenty of games this year because of the slow down, run out the clock offense. See: both iowa games.
 

This will probably be an unpopular opinion on this board but in general trying to run the clock out when you have the lead against a superior team is a pretty good strategy. The problem is that it doesn't play to our stregnth. The gophers play better when they run and push the ball up the court. This strategy could have worked with better execution had Hollins not launched an air ball with about 20 seconds to go. With no shot clock we had plenty of time to work the ball around and get a better shot than that. We could have gotten a much better look rather than a desperation shot with way too much time on the clock. An open 3 with under 5 to go would have probably done it.
 

CentralGopher said:
This will probably be an unpopular opinion on this board but in general trying to run the clock out when you have the lead against a superior team is a pretty good strategy. The problem is that it doesn't play to our stregnth. The gophers play better when they run and push the ball up the court. This strategy could have worked with better execution had Hollins not launched an air ball with about 20 seconds to go. With no shot clock we had plenty of time to work the ball around and get a better shot than that. We could have gotten a much better look rather than a desperation shot with way too much time on the clock. An open 3 with under 5 to go would have probably done it.
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I generally oppose the run out the clock strategy in any sport. If you have built a lead, you have done it by doing something right. It seems odd to want to go to anything different than was has built you your lead in the first place. I understand a little more conservatism (don't settle for an ok shot if there is more than 10 seconds left), but I think we should still be trying to create a good shot through the whole clock and then take it if we get it.
 

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