Player Grading

Donate To GopherHole
M

Moses87

Banned
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
2,695
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Westbrook - C+ - A terrible liability defensively and offensively, sloppy with the ball...Can't blame him for trying to make things happen at times because nobody else does...But his shooting is wildly inconsistent and he's never really tried to drive and dish to open players. His performances against Penn State and aggressiveness were the biggest reasons I give him the lofty(for this team) grade.

Hoffarber - C - Smartest player on the team but has never developed anything off the dribble...He had a chance to develop into a poor man's JJ Redick, but he never really has. His hot games against OSU and Northwestern won 2 games for the Gophers but he had other games that were forgettable, particularly against the better teams on the road.

Sampson - C - Took 2 steps forward this season and then 1 step back...that was his trend. Still has more upside than anyone on the roster if he gains confidence and some better footwork. Defensively, he's got to get stronger...Sims abused him.

Damian Johnson - B - Highest graded player, mostly because he produces in a variety of ways. He never did learn to block out and allowed Sims several key offensive rebounds in both games with Michigan. Wish he woulda developed a pull up jumper from 10 to 12 feet, but apparently its not in the cards for him. He can only score on layups and dunks and that makes him easy to guard for foes.

Devoe Joseph - D - Shooting percentages dropped and his turnovers are up. Lost 2 or 3 close games with his poor shooting and clutch misses...Defensively, opponents shoot over 50% against him. A huge liability.

Paul Carter - D - Never saw a more talented player get less from his skills for the Gophers. He is more talented than Johnson but he's a mental midget and dissappears in most games. Commits bad, sloppy fouls and can't block out or rebound commensorate with his athleticism. I'm pretty sure, Tubby and coaches have scared him from being more aggressive on the offensive end.

Colton Iverson - D+ - I'd give him a C or C+ if he'd only learn to value the ball more...but all too often, he loses the grasp or has it poked away too easily. Offensively, he's got better low post moves than Sampson, but he can't be trusted to hold on to the ball or make FT's when he's fouled. I'm not sure his issues are correctable.

Bostick - F - Forgot his first name and don't care to look...he's been a failure in every facet.

Cobbs - D - He's clueless as most Freshman PG's tend to be. I'm not ruling out that he'll develop but I wouldn't bet on it. He seems to lack awareness and vision. Good athlete though.

Al Nolen - F- His grade probably looks familiar to him. Woulda been a solid C until he showed his Minneapolis public school pedigree in the classroom.

Tubby Smith - F - Never has a coach gotten a freer pass for failing so dramatically. He cost his team games by recruiting criminals who never saw the court unless it was a court-room with a judge presiding. He also cost the Gophers at least 5 games with his in-game coaching, timeouts down the stretch when letting players play, would given the team a better shot. He's failed to get players to play freely and comfortably in a role. He's failed to develop a workable offense for the players to succeed in while his defense has gotten worse as the season as gone along. Players play scared and tight. It's all on Tubby.
 


I'm relatively new to posting on this board....can I safely assume that this individual is always this ridiculous?
 


fryguy22 said:
I'm relatively new to posting on this board....can I safely assume that this individual is always this ridiculous?
Click to expand...

What's so rediculous? If you're gonna make a statement, back it up!
 


Gopherholefan said:
Westbrook gets 2nd highest grade on team?? Wow
Click to expand...

Because he has the cajones to try to make things happen and he actually did win a few games for the Gophers. Its not his fault that Tubby's offense is stagnant and incapable of producing open shots for others...with the shot clock winding down, he does what the most skilled player has to do...he tries to get a shot off.
 

fryguy22 said:
I'm relatively new to posting on this board....can I safely assume that this individual is always this ridiculous?
Click to expand...
You'll get used to Art Vandelay, Moses87, etc. quite quickly.

There is also an ignore feature that many on the board use for these posters so that their threads/posts don't show up on your screen.
 

Tubby Smith doesn't deserve an F. You can only do so much with average talent.
 

Moses87 said:
Because he has the cajones to try to make things happen and he actually did win a few games for the Gophers. Its not his fault that Tubby's offense is stagnant and incapable of producing open shots for others...with the shot clock winding down, he does what the most skilled player has to do...he tries to get a shot off.
Click to expand...

I read your first part, agreed with some and shook my head on some. But this quote costs you some credibility. Westbrook has talent but lacks judgement as we all know. That ain't Schnelker's (Smith's) fault.

I noticed no grade on RW.
 



GopherNation said:
Tubby Smith doesn't deserve an F. You can only do so much with average talent.
Click to expand...
He recruited most of that average talent. Recruiting is a coach's most important job. And don't bother with the White/Mbakwe excuse, because recruiting kids with potential character issues is on him, too.
 

rcpratt said:
He recruited most of that average talent. Recruiting is a coach's most important job. And don't bother with the White/Mbakwe excuse, because recruiting kids with potential character issues is on him, too.
Click to expand...

mbakwe's issue is not with character. it was with being a tall black man in miami at the time some gal had the misfortune of being assaulted
 

So, one B, a few Cs and bunch of Ds and a few Fs: this looks more like the grades I would expect for a team that won maybe 10 games this year.

Oh, and you forgot about Rodney Williams...
 




fryguy22 said:
I'm relatively new to posting on this board....can I safely assume that this individual is always this ridiculous?
Click to expand...
The short answer, yes, it's a safe assumption.

The long answer:
  • He usually has no clue what's going on in the game as he's (apparently) in the military and stationed in Europe;
  • He asks for score updates and "what's going on" during the online chats;
  • He's (apparently) unwilling to fork over the money to be able to listen to the play-by-play on GopherSports.com;
  • He also (apparently) has no access to the BTN.
The only (apparent) time he actually sees a game is when it's broadcast on ESPN.

So, essentially his opinions (oft stated as "facts") are based upon a limited sample of observations and mostly based (apparently) on what he's able to "divine"
 

If Moses were a teacher, I don't think I'd want to be a student in his class. Tough grader.
 

Grading based on what?

Moses87 said:
Westbrook ... blah, blah, blah
Click to expand...
Moses, IIRC you said you're in Europe, can't get the BTN, can only watch games on ESPN and aren't willing to pay for the broadcasts on GopherSports.com. (You never said whether you were able to watch CBS broadcasts.)

So exactly what games have you seen in person this season? And what conference games have you been able to see through televised broadcasts?
 

SelectionSunday said:
If Moses were a teacher, I don't think I'd want to be a student in his class. Tough grader.
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking! I am a teacher and I was wondering how many students would be crying after an exam if I gave the same kinds of grades he gave for performance this year.
 

Moses87 said:
What's so rediculous? If you're gonna make a statement, back it up!
Click to expand...

Conan said:
So, one B, a few Cs and bunch of Ds and a few Fs: this looks more like the grades I would expect for a team that won maybe 10 games this year.

Oh, and you forgot about Rodney Williams...
Click to expand...

This guy said it the best.....the second best grade you gave was a C+. Several players have had a year much better than C+ (Ralph, Hoff, Devoe, Damian)
 

eker0016 said:
That's what I was thinking! I am a teacher and I was wondering how many students would be crying after an exam if I gave the same kinds of grades he gave for performance this year.
Click to expand...

He must have lost Rodney's test because he didn't get a grade.
 

Moses cannot be taken seriously. This is the same guy that said Adam Webber should be moved to qb(he said it before they changed his throwing motion and everything went to hell.)
 

Well the grades are harsh but is anyone willing to nominate a player who deserves an A?

I don't see any A grades for the players this year. You are not going to make the NCAA unless at least two players have really good years.

Personally I would give Bs to Johnson (maybe a B+), Sampson, Hoffarber and Devoe as at least they are improved from last year and have played very well at different times of the year.

I somewhat agree with Tubby's grade. A great coach takes lemons and makes lemonaid, I don't think Tubby has really improved this team as the year progressed.

I have no doubt that this has been one of Tubby's most difficult years and White, Mbakwe and Nolen were a perfect storm of problems, but he doesn't seem to have adjusted.

Next year wil be better- I do think we will see addition by subtraction.
 

Rick Mons said:
Moses, IIRC you said you're in Europe, can't get the BTN, can only watch games on ESPN and aren't willing to pay for the broadcasts on GopherSports.com. (You never said whether you were able to watch CBS broadcasts.)

So exactly what games have you seen in person this season? And what conference games have you been able to see through televised broadcasts?
Click to expand...


I can't speak for Moses, but if he is watching on Armed Forces Network, the only 3 games we got this season were the heartbreakers against Michigan State and at Indiana (this I believe was a CBS broadcast), and the lackluster affair against Michigan at the Barn.

If those were the only three games you had to use to base your grading system, I can understand the poor grades if you did not get to follow the rest of the games. I felt like crying after all three of those games.
 

for the record, I was able to see about 14 to 15 games via AFN, sopcasted games and from travelling back to the states on business. In games I couldn't get a Sopcast feed online, I listened on radio or relied on text updates. My observations may seem harsh but that's because the players didn't produce...the team has regressed offensively and defensively throughout the season. The only player who has improved during the season is Sampson, but he can't put together 2 or 3 good games in a row.

For those who say Joseph deserves a "B", get real! The Michigan game was a great example of why he earned his D...Did you see the guy shoot an airball with 6.7 on the clock? WTF? Shotclock was turned off....why didn't he milk it down inside of 4 seconds before shooting? His poor shot and dumb play, allowed Michigan to have a chance to score, which they did. 4 point swing and any hopes for the Gophers were dashed. He single-handedly cost us 2 other games(MSU in the barn, Purdue) with his turnovers and poor shooting, not to mention allowing pedestrian opponents look like All-Americans. Joseph cannot be our future PG or we will never see the dance...trust me!
 

Sampson hasn't put together 2-3 good games in a row????

@OSU-11 pts, 5-5 fg, 1-1 ft, 4 rebounds,4 ast
then the next game
@PSU-13 pts, 4-6 fg, 5-6 ft, 10 rebounds,2 ast, 3 blks

I'd say that's putting 2 good games together in a row.Don't even try to say ok he put together 2 but he couldn't put together 3 because:
vs WIS-10 pts 3-5 fg, 4-5 ft, 8 rebounds
vs IND-11 pts, 4-7 fg, 3-4ft, 8 rebounds, 5 ast
vs Purdue-21 pts, 7-11 fg, 6-7 ft, 7 rebounds, 2 ast

I would say Sampson deserves at least a B. Only being a sophomore and averaging 8.7 pts, 6.3 boards, and 1.8 blocks a game is pretty dang impressive.

And Moses pretty much EVERYONE has said something about u missing Rodney's grade, and you still haven't put one up. Oh and you say Joesph deserves a D because he he missed clutch shots, well at least he's confident enough to take those shots. Here's an idea, quite bashing/giving $hit for grades to player's that have 100x the athleticism and skill that you do. It's really easy to bash player's when your sitting at home on the computer and not out on the court.
 

Rather than simply ripping on Moses... which I will admit does look like a decent amount of fun and is rather warranted, I'll choose to stick my neck on the line and provide counter grades.

Westbrook - Moses' Grade C+ - Rasho's Grade D+ - Westbrook regressed this year in my opinion, He continued to be the headache that he had been in the past with fewer highlights than he had in previous seasons (see Wisconsin 2009). I was really hoping for Westbrook to be a go to scorer for us this year but it looked like he was all too comfortable assuming that role without earning it. We may miss his individual offense next year but will not miss the drain he is on the team dynamic.

Hoffarber - Moses' Grade C - Rasho's Grade B- A little inconsistent this year but at least he did not disappear for the entire Big Ten season again. Listen, Hoffarber is what we thought he was... A spot up shooter who does a few other things on an inconsistent basis. He needs to be a Matt Bullard or Tim Legler for this team... not a Rip Hamilton or Ray Allen.

Sampson - Moses' Grade C - Rasho's Grade B- Ralph just turned 20... He plays like a twenty year old 7 footer. He, like the rest of our team, is wildly inconsistent but the bottom line is that he progressed this year. He looked more comfortable out there and was occasionally more assertive. If he can ever learn to play with fire he has shown that he will be an effective player, as he was at times this year.

Damian Johnson - Moses' Grade B - Rasho's Grade B+ - Damian deserves a B merely for his defensive production this year, he gets a slight bump based on his all around offensive game.

Devoe Joseph - Moses' Grade D - Rasho's Grade C- - This kid needs to be given a position and left there. We can all agree he is probably best suited to play the 2 but due to a total dearth of talent at the one he is playing out of position. He did the best with the skills he had which were completely underutilized in Minnesota's offense, he still showed flashes of being a go to scorer who could be lethal with the ball in his hands.

Paul Carter - Moses' Grade D - Rasho's Grade C- A C- is below average and Paul was below average this year, he was not what he should have been but he was in no way a D. He plays out of control and needs to understand what his skill set allows him to do.

Colton Iverson - Moses' Grade D+ - Rasho's Grade D+ - I'm a huge Colt fan, but let's be honest he did miss too many 3 footers and turned the ball over way too many times for his performance this season to be rated any higher, I hope these are correctable flaws.

Bostick - Moses' Grade F - Rasho's Grade F - Yep, He's bad.

Cobbs - Moses' Grade D - Rasho's Grade C- - Yeah, he hasn't been a world beater but he is a freshman point guard who did not really have high expectations coming in. He has played servicable minutes and that is about all we could ask of a kid in his situation.

Al Nolen - Moses' Grade F - Rasho's Grade D -He was servicable at best when he was playing. I understand that he has quick hands and jumps lanes, but on offense he is a total drain. If he can not learn to shoot outside of 5 feet there will be little room for a player of his ilk on this team going forward.

Tubby Smith - Moses' Grade F - Rasho's Grade C - There's very little talent on this team at crucial positions, While this does reflect poor recruiting, Tubby has maximized his return on the players on the floor. He does need to refine his offense but without a decent point guard this can be a difficult task. He is a good coach faced with the conundrum of setting up a fluid offense with only three players who know how to dribble correctly.

Rodney Williams - Rasho's Grade C - Once again, exactly what most expected from Rodney... a fluid athlete who needs to refine much of his game.

I think if you average out the grade's my take is an overall GPA of around a 1.7 vs. Moses' 1.0 either way you slice it, this has been a dissapointing season and I hope for better things next year.
 

Do you grade based on potential or what they actually did. And do you take into account the experience of a player. I mean, I'm not gonna grade a guy like Cobbs or Rodney low when they were actually sort of productive freshmen players. Sometimes you're lucky to get anything decent out of them. Even the sophs, they're gonna be inconsistent. A guy like Devoe has played quality ball numerous times this year. He's had some letdowns, it happens with younger players.

I'm still trying to figure out how Hoffarber doesn't warrant a high grade? The guy has expanded his overall game, though he still lacks some offensive diversity, he rebounds well and dishes the rock pretty well. And he's 3rd in the nation in 3pt %. He's done more than his part in helping this team win. Just because he can't create offense himself doesn't mean he hasn't helped this team immensely. Players should be taking advantage of the attention he receives on the court for his shooting ability. Just because those players are unable to do so well enough isn't an indictment on him.

Another thought. You grade Tubby an F. Most coaches don't have to deal with even half of what he went through this year, and he had his team on the cusp of an at large berth. I really don't think F is even remotely warranted. This team got better throughout the year (until Michigan), the problem was they kept shooting themselves in the foot. Some of that is coaching, but players gotta take responsibility as well. I'd give Tubby no lower than a C.
 

Okay, so the grades given by Moses were unreasonably low. The problem I see is not all of his C's and D's. The problem is we've played the season without any A performers.
 

Player's Grades

Moses:
The #1 reason these young people are at the University of Minnesota is to get an education and hopefully leave with a degree. For some, it is a chance for an education that they might not have if it were not for their athletic talent.
For any of use to sit here and give a player a grade, that is very wrong. These young people don't receive a cent, except for tuition, room/board and books which might amount for $10,000/semester. What do they get back? Studies show that 21% of division 1 athletes want a pro contract but how many actually sign a pro contract? Less than 1% will ever reach that status. After they have given their time here, they hopefully leave with a degree and have made contacts that will secure them for their life.
Much is expected of an athlete and their day is taken up with early morning weight room, class, team meetings, practice, team dinner and study hall. They are expected to make personal appearances on behalf of the University of Minnesota. The wear and tear on their bodies can cause problems the rest of their lives. While the colleges/universities are filling their accounts, these players don't receive a paycheck.
In this age of social media, college athletes have a tough go. If they were pros, I would agree that we can give them a grade. However, these young people are not getting a pay check and are under intense scrutiny.
Let's give ourselves the grade. I want us to cheer for these young people on the court and encourage them in their studies off the court.
 

gopher madness said:
Moses:
The #1 reason these young people are at the University of Minnesota is to get an education and hopefully leave with a degree. For some, it is a chance for an education that they might not have if it were not for their athletic talent.
For any of use to sit here and give a player a grade, that is very wrong. These young people don't receive a cent, except for tuition, room/board and books which might amount for $10,000/semester. What do they get back? Studies show that 21% of division 1 athletes want a pro contract but how many actually sign a pro contract? Less than 1% will ever reach that status. After they have given their time here, they hopefully leave with a degree and have made contacts that will secure them for their life.
Much is expected of an athlete and their day is taken up with early morning weight room, class, team meetings, practice, team dinner and study hall. They are expected to make personal appearances on behalf of the University of Minnesota. The wear and tear on their bodies can cause problems the rest of their lives. While the colleges/universities are filling their accounts, these players don't receive a paycheck.
In this age of social media, college athletes have a tough go. If they were pros, I would agree that we can give them a grade. However, these young people are not getting a pay check and are under intense scrutiny.
Let's give ourselves the grade. I want us to cheer for these young people on the court and encourage them in their studies off the court.
Click to expand...

gophermadness: A
 

gopher madness said:
Moses:
The #1 reason these young people are at the University of Minnesota is to get an education and hopefully leave with a degree. For some, it is a chance for an education that they might not have if it were not for their athletic talent.
For any of use to sit here and give a player a grade, that is very wrong. These young people don't receive a cent, except for tuition, room/board and books which might amount for $10,000/semester. What do they get back? Studies show that 21% of division 1 athletes want a pro contract but how many actually sign a pro contract? Less than 1% will ever reach that status. After they have given their time here, they hopefully leave with a degree and have made contacts that will secure them for their life.
Much is expected of an athlete and their day is taken up with early morning weight room, class, team meetings, practice, team dinner and study hall. They are expected to make personal appearances on behalf of the University of Minnesota. The wear and tear on their bodies can cause problems the rest of their lives. While the colleges/universities are filling their accounts, these players don't receive a paycheck.
In this age of social media, college athletes have a tough go. If they were pros, I would agree that we can give them a grade. However, these young people are not getting a pay check and are under intense scrutiny.
Let's give ourselves the grade. I want us to cheer for these young people on the court and encourage them in their studies off the court.
Click to expand...

Im not sure that i agree with your statement that we shouldnt be grading or at least evaluating student athletes. Yes they are students but they are receiving their education for free at the expense of the university. Student athletes are brought to the university because of their talent on the court. I would consider their job to be playing basketball and their pay to be the education they get, so if they arnt performing or putting the effort in I think that questions should be raised.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom