Perspective from someone new

GopherWatch

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Let me preface this by saying I've been involved with high school basketball as an assistant and head coach for about 25 years. I've had a reasonable amount of success (a couple of state tournaments and some 20-win seasons, mostly due to good players). This by no means makes me an absolute authority, but I've been around awhile and watch just about every Gopher game. I enjoy this forum, and like reading what other fans have to offer. I've never posted anything, but figured I'd take a shot and give a few ideas on what could be done differently.

Defensively, there are several problems that are difficult to fix. The big lineup makes man-to-man virtually impossible, while the smaller group lacks the fundamental traits of a good man-to-man.
My biggest issue with the zone is the inabilty to defend and close-out shooters. From what I've seen, ball-reversals almost always result in open jump shots for the opposition. Our team, (the big guys in particular), seems to react a second late when this happens, with the result being a rush out to the shooter to try and block shots, which in turn leaves us in faulty rebounding position. The issue could be that we have guys who CAN'T react quickly enough. A solution might be to not have guys packed so tightly into the paint, particualrly against teams that have one or less dominant post players on the floor.
The man defense is also a struggle. The fundamentals are not good. Not defending screens well is very noticeable, and what we're doing away from the ball (beating cutters to a spot, and again being a second late to react while on the helpside) just isn't very good. I'm not sure how to fix such things at this point of the season.

Offensively, it's easy to suggest that we need to run more sets for given players, but this is team that does not run sets well. There could be several reasons for this, but my guess is that we have some players who can't remember plays. This isn't uncommon. I've had many players, even book-smart ones, who struggled with this when they have to perform at game-speed.
My suggestion would be to try a different point guard and run a lot more high/low stuff (which is easy to remember) than what we've been seeing. Put Hoffarber on a wing and let Mbakwe work in the post until somebody stops him. We have some big guys who are good at feeding the post, and having Hoffarber in a shooting position would open up the middle even more. And you wouldn't have to always have Mbakwe down there. A little versatility can also create problems for a defense. I thought vs. Michigan that Rodney Williams could have done some damage inside.

Those are just a few of my thoughts. Obviously there's a lot more to being successful than what I've written. Again, I enjoy reading most of the stuff on here. There's nothing wrong with being a passionate fan.
 

Let me preface this by saying I've been involved with high school basketball as an assistant and head coach for about 25 years. I've had a reasonable amount of success (a couple of state tournaments and some 20-win seasons, mostly due to good players). This by no means makes me an absolute authority, but I've been around awhile and watch just about every Gopher game. I enjoy this forum, and like reading what other fans have to offer. I've never posted anything, but figured I'd take a shot and give a few ideas on what could be done differently.

Defensively, there are several problems that are difficult to fix. The big lineup makes man-to-man virtually impossible, while the smaller group lacks the fundamental traits of a good man-to-man.
My biggest issue with the zone is the inabilty to defend and close-out shooters. From what I've seen, ball-reversals almost always result in open jump shots for the opposition. Our team, (the big guys in particular), seems to react a second late when this happens, with the result being a rush out to the shooter to try and block shots, which in turn leaves us in faulty rebounding position. The issue could be that we have guys who CAN'T react quickly enough. A solution might be to not have guys packed so tightly into the paint, particualrly against teams that have one or less dominant post players on the floor.
The man defense is also a struggle. The fundamentals are not good. Not defending screens well is very noticeable, and what we're doing away from the ball (beating cutters to a spot, and again being a second late to react while on the helpside) just isn't very good. I'm not sure how to fix such things at this point of the season.

Offensively, it's easy to suggest that we need to run more sets for given players, but this is team that does not run sets well. There could be several reasons for this, but my guess is that we have several players who can't remember plays. This isn't uncommon. I've had many players, even book-smart ones, who struggled with this when they have to perform at game-speed.
My suggestion would be to try a different point guard and run a lot more high/low stuff (which is easy to remember) than what we've been seeing. Put Hoffarber on a wing and let Mbakwe work in the post until somebody stops him. We have some big guys who are good at feeding the post, and having Hoffarber in a shooting position would open up the middle even more. And you wouldn't have to always have Mbakwe down there. A little versatility can also create problems for a defense. I thought vs. Michigan that Rodney Williams could have done some damage inside.

Those are just a few of my thoughts. Obviously there's a lot more to being successful than what I've written. Again, I enjoy reading most of the stuff on here. There's nothing wrong with being a passionate fan.


So- overall I guess you would say we are well coached? :)

Seriously - good post, it's good to hear from coaches out there. I was talking with a guy at the game about the idea you present of getting our defenders further on the perimeter and not sagging so much. I would seem the big advantage we have with all of our shot blockers is that we would be able to afford applying more pressure on the perimeter to get steals and harrass shots. If a guy beats you off the dribble he has to face a big shot blocker inside.
 

Really good stuff. Couldn't agree w/ you more on the zone defense. The quick ball reversals have definitely killed us, and having the bigs try to close out on shooters in the corner has been rough. This being said, I think it's our only option, man-to-man is pretty tough with 3 posts.

Also, you make some good points about the offense. It's tough to go up against such a packed defense in the lane when you have very little for outside shooting, I definitely agree that Hoff being off the point and on a wing would open up the interior a little bit. Wouldn't mind seeing some high ball screens by Trevor/Ralph for Chip and sticking Hoff in the corner.
 

Your Post Makes Sense

It's probably a little harder to coach B10 Div I basketball than HS hoops.

FWIW Tubby was a pretty mediocre HS basketball coach:

Smith began his coaching career with a four-year stint at his high school alma mater - Great Mills High School in Great Mills, Maryland, compiling a 46-36 record. His next stop was Hoke County High School in Raeford, North Carolina, where he recorded a 28-18 mark in two seasons.
 

Thank you for giving us some actually X's and O's and basketball basics on this board instead of the usual moronic, "PLAY X MORE" or "PLAY BETTER" or "TUBBY SUCKS" threads/ comments.
 


Vertical athleticism vs. horizontal

I think this is the reason for the struggle with close outs/man to man/defending screens is just this. We have tremendous vertical athleticism but we don't have anyone (outside of Nolen) who is quick moving side to side or straight. Hollins, maybe. Rodney is a great leaper, but very slow and deliberate. Even Chip, who most agree is a great athlete, seems slightly plodding when driving. It certainly doesn't help playing guys out of place and having Iverson and Sampson responsible for closing out the perimeter. Johnson and Carter had this horizontal athleticism last year and I think it is missed very dearly.
 

I think this is the reason for the struggle with close outs/man to man/defending screens is just this. We have tremendous vertical athleticism but we don't have anyone (outside of Nolen) who is quick moving side to side or straight. Hollins, maybe. Rodney is a great leaper, but very slow and deliberate. Even Chip, who most agree is a great athlete, seems slightly plodding when driving. It certainly doesn't help playing guys out of place and having Iverson and Sampson responsible for closing out the perimeter. Johnson and Carter had this horizontal athleticism last year and I think it is missed very dearly.


I said this team would miss Damian tremendously. I was told that Mbakwe and company would put him to shame.
 

I said this team would miss Damian tremendously. I was told that Mbakwe and company would put him to shame.
No offense to Damian, because I think he was a phenomenal player; but I would take Mbakwe on my team 10 times out of 10 over DJ.
 

No offense to Damian, because I think he was a phenomenal player; but I would take Mbakwe on my team 10 times out of 10 over DJ.

Every team wants a Trevor, but he can't win games by himself. The team is lacking defensive stops. DJ could disrupt the flow of games. I only wish Maturi would have allowed Trevor to play last year with the supporting cast of players, they could have won more games in the tournament. Paul could be an asset to this year team.
 



I think this is the reason for the struggle with close outs/man to man/defending screens is just this. We have tremendous vertical athleticism but we don't have anyone (outside of Nolen) who is quick moving side to side or straight. Hollins, maybe. Rodney is a great leaper, but very slow and deliberate. Even Chip, who most agree is a great athlete, seems slightly plodding when driving. It certainly doesn't help playing guys out of place and having Iverson and Sampson responsible for closing out the perimeter. Johnson and Carter had this horizontal athleticism last year and I think it is missed very dearly.

This makes sense. There's a big difference between vertical/horizontal athleticism.
I must admit I get a little frustrated watching Rodney Williams. Tremendous potential, but isn't improving at the basic skills. I'd love to see him change speeds or hesitate with the dribble, and he needs help getting his body in sync when he shoots jump shots. It's like his arms and legs are a half second apart. Does anyone know if the Gophers have a shooting guru? A Trent Tucker or Quincy Lewis who can teach about fluidity?
Again, my suggestions are just the rantings of an old coach. I don't claim to know more than Tubby or anyone else.
 

Tubby's D, which crams the middle, demands 2 teams, is focused to force a lower percentage outside shot. I thought one of the announcers said we lead the nation in allowing 3pt attempts.

Plus Blake gets abused when guarding someone capable of taking it to the hoop and/or taking a short J. Hollins gets out of position and lacks strength at ward of bigger players.

Fundamentally on D, this team is probably lacking the most of Tubby's recent teams. I am sure he would prefer to have a Nolen or DJ out there and throw in the pressure D with the press too but not at this time.
 

gopherwatch:

let me take a shot with a newbie with cred:

Do you think there are 'gimme' rebounds... ie 'bunnie' rebounds... these are defensive rebounds off missed free thows in lopsided games where no one is interested in fighting for it? And if so, could just about any human being snatch one of these? say a fat 50 year old?

ex:

D1 hoops.
we are down 30.
i'm a 50year old walk-on
i'm fat.
i have inside defensive rebounding position.
they are shooting FTs
there are no offensive rebounders.
the FT is missed... it is NOT a long rebound.

could I catch that rebound?
( and if i could, certainly anyone could.. )
and are there 'stat stuffers' out there that feast on these situations?...

let me know your take.. please CC 'Dr Don'

thx
 

gopherwatch:

let me take a shot with a newbie with cred:

Do you think there are 'gimme' rebounds... ie 'bunnie' rebounds... these are defensive rebounds off missed free thows in lopsided games where no one is interested in fighting for it? And if so, could just about any human being snatch one of these? say a fat 50 year old?

ex:

D1 hoops.
we are down 30.
i'm a 50year old walk-oni'm fat.
i have inside defensive rebounding position.
they are shooting FTs
there are no offensive rebounders.
the FT is missed... it is NOT a long rebound.

could I catch that rebound?( and if i could, certainly anyone could.. )
and are there 'stat stuffers' out there that feast on these situations?...

let me know your take.. please CC 'Dr Don'

thx

Why would Dr Don care what someone half his age could or couldn't do.:D
 




gopherwatch:

let me take a shot with a newbie with cred:

Do you think there are 'gimme' rebounds... ie 'bunnie' rebounds... these are defensive rebounds off missed free thows in lopsided games where no one is interested in fighting for it? And if so, could just about any human being snatch one of these? say a fat 50 year old?

ex:

D1 hoops.
we are down 30.
i'm a 50year old walk-on
i'm fat.
i have inside defensive rebounding position.
they are shooting FTs
there are no offensive rebounders.
the FT is missed... it is NOT a long rebound.

could I catch that rebound?
( and if i could, certainly anyone could.. )
and are there 'stat stuffers' out there that feast on these situations?...

let me know your take.. please CC 'Dr Don'

thx

This is humorous. I would hope you'd be able to get a rebound with no opposition.
The NBA is filled with "bunny" rebounds. I'm a fan of Kevin Love, but he gets a ton uncontested. It's just the nature of that league. Watch a Big 10 contest and an NBA game and notice the difference in effort level and rebounding.
They say Jerry Lucas got hundreds (if not thousands) of extra rebounds retrieving meaningless last-second misses that no one else would go after.
 

Tubby's D, which crams the middle, demands 2 teams, is focused to force a lower percentage outside shot. I thought one of the announcers said we lead the nation in allowing 3pt attempts.

Plus Blake gets abused when guarding someone capable of taking it to the hoop and/or taking a short J. Hollins gets out of position and lacks strength at ward of bigger players.

Fundamentally on D, this team is probably lacking the most of Tubby's recent teams. I am sure he would prefer to have a Nolen or DJ out there and throw in the pressure D with the press too but not at this time.

Length and quickness should help with Tubby's d. Williams and Hollins should be two players that can benefit from that system. My only complaint is that I would think they could adjust against some players they know are lights out shooters more than they do.
 

This is humorous. I would hope you'd be able to get a rebound with no opposition.
The NBA is filled with "bunny" rebounds. I'm a fan of Kevin Love, but he gets a ton uncontested. It's just the nature of that league. Watch a Big 10 contest and an NBA game and notice the difference in effort level and rebounding.
They say Jerry Lucas got hundreds (if not thousands) of extra rebounds retrieving meaningless last-second misses that no one else would go after.


:clap:
welcome!!! finally someone else with a keen eye..
GW, you're my bff.. guys like gopherjake will tell you with a straight face that KG is 'the greatest rebounder in NBA history'.. :eek:
Dr Don doesn't believe there are 'bunny' rebounds..

later, you & i will discuss the 'bunny' points... guys who curl up around the ball, under a minute remaining, up by 15, knowing the foul will come and they get to pad their point stats.. jake/DRDon deny this happens..
 





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