One guys thoughts on Illinois

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Oh please. This guy is a frickin' TRACK coach at TOLEDO. A coach for a sport no one cares about at a school no one knows exists. I'll give his word all the consideration it deserves.

Illinois has the potential to be a great job - a job just below that elite Alabama, Texas, Ohio St., USC, etc. level. It is secluded enough that it has a passionate fanbase, yet close enough to major population centers with a ton of great football players. It is in a football-crazy state. The right coach at Illinois could hand-select the top prospects from both Chicago and St. Louis and have a perennial Big Ten-contending team. This guy is less than clueless and should've just shut his mouth.
 

Got to agree, there must be an angle to this, track coaches are very rarely heard, even on twitter.

Illinois CAN be a great job, unfortunately IMO they've been outdone by schools in the Chicago region. NW has their academics, and a passionate coach like Fitzgerald, Iowa pulls alot of Chicago/Illinois kids and have been successful under Ferentz. Wisconsin pulls a few top kids from Chicago, Notre Dame probably gets who they want, etc. Illinois rising would most likely coincide with either a coach finding a solid niche of some sort and exploiting it against those regional teams, and taking advantage of downswing years.
They've had their shots, even under Zook, but bungled away good chances over and over.
Beckman seems ok, I'm not sure he's a great fit there though.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Illinois has the potential to be a great job - a job just below that elite Alabama, Texas, Ohio St., USC, etc. level. It is secluded enough that it has a passionate fanbase, yet close enough to major population centers with a ton of great football players. It is in a football-crazy state. The right coach at Illinois could hand-select the top prospects from both Chicago and St. Louis and have a perennial Big Ten-contending team.
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The last time they were a perennial Big Ten contending team was in the 10s and 20s.

Three BT titles since Minnesota's last one (44 years ago) puts you just above Minnesota, not just below Alabama, Texas, Ohio State, etc.

Illinois is a job that can provide a year or two of good/great success (Zook to Rose Bowl/Turner to Sugar Bowl/Mackovic went 7-1 in year two then 4-4 in year four before leaving)....then it's over.

Passionate fan base? Memorial holds 60,000+. Illinois has averaged that three times in the last 20 years. Averaged 43,000 the year before the last Rose Bowl. 39,000 in the late 90s.

Crap town, crap stadium, good job if you take a better one at the first sign of success.
 

Maximus said:
The last time they were a perennial Big Ten contending team was in the 10s and 20s.

Three BT titles since Minnesota's last one (44 years ago) puts you just above Minnesota, not just below Alabama, Texas, Ohio State, etc.

Illinois is a job that can provide a year or two of good/great success (Zook to Rose Bowl/Turner to Sugar Bowl/Mackovic went 7-1 in year two then 4-4 in year four before leaving)....then it's over.

Passionate fan base? Memorial holds 60,000+. Illinois has averaged that three times in the last 20 years. Averaged 43,000 the year before the last Rose Bowl. 39,000 in the late 90s.

Crap town, crap stadium, good job if you take a better one at the first sign of success.
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Perhaps you didn't take note of the fourth word in my post:

Potential

When's the last time Illinois had even a decent, let alone good, coach? Sound like anyone else you know?
 


dpodoll68 said:
Perhaps you didn't take note of the fourth word in my post:

Potential

When's the last time Illinois had even a decent, let alone good, coach? Sound like anyone else you know?
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I've always been curious to why they have never been able to hit a home run with a coaching hire. Going the MAC route might finally get them something more then a one year wonder.
 

Maximus said:
Crap town, crap stadium, good job if you take a better one at the first sign of success.
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I'll agree with the crap part. I was not at all impressed with anything at the U of Ill.
 

Here's the list of schools who are:

a) within 200 miles of two top-20 metropolitan areas;
b) are BCS schools; and
c) both of those metropolitan areas turn out a large number of DI-A football prospects on an annual basis (thus meaning that being close is actually a bonus in that there are a lot of players to choose from)

1. USC (LA and San Diego)
2. UCLA (LA and San Diego)
3. Notre Dame (Chicago and Detroit)
4. Texas (Houston and Dallas)
5. Texas A&M (Houston and Dallas)
6. Baylor (Houston and Dallas)
7. Illinois (Chicago and St. Louis)

That's it. That's the list. Outside of Baylor and Illinois, all of those schools have been elite powers at one point or another, and what we are seeing at Baylor is evidence that it can happen for Illinois with the right coach.
 

I think Illinois is ripe for being a good program. As Dpo said, they have a lot of built in advantages with recruiting. I understand that Notre Dame, Northwester, WI, and even Iowa go into that state. However, keeping more talent in state is easier than cultivating talent where it does not exist. The state of Illinois is about the same as Michigan when it comes to instate talent, even if Notre Dame and Sconny pluck a few, there still is quite a bit of talent.

It all depends upon if he's a good coach or not. If they have some success and he makes an effort to shut down the borders, eventually it will be much more difficult for Notre Dame, WI, IA to dip into Illinois for talent.

My concern would be more for Beckman. He did a nice job at Toledo, but he is a defense guy who has never really had good defenses. He was at Ok St before Toledo as a Dcoordinator and their defense wasn't great and Toledo's defense isn't great either. But who knows? I do wonder if Louis Ayeni will be going with him to Illinois. Ayeni played football at Woodbury and then Nwestern.
 



Illinois is a basketball school through and through. Football has and will always be secondary.

That being said here is a take from the Nothern Illinois blog Red and Black Attack about Tim Beckman: http://www.redandblackattack.com/20...h-sick-of-losing-to-northern-illinois-changes

Former head coach of the Toledo Rockets, Tim Beckman, appears to have taken the coaching vacancy at Big 10 school University of Illinois.

Beckman is 21-16 in his three years at Toledo with zero conference championships, or even a MAC West division title to his name. You may know Beckman from such exciting games as a complete collapse in the 2010 Little Caesar's Pizza Bowl to Florida International. It's too bad we couldn't have watched Beckman faceoff this Bowl season against Air Force in the Military Bowl Presented by Northrop Gumman. Rockets vs. the Air Force, YEEHAWW.

2009 was the first year for Beckman as the Rockets head coach and was most famous for coaching the team that put a dirty hit on Chandler Harnish, injuring his knee, but also changing him from Bruce Wayne to Batman. After that incident, Chandler put a picture of Beckman on his wall, motivating him for the rest of his career. He hasn't looked back since.

The next year Chandler would get his revenge, putting up 65 points and absolutely demoralizing the Rockets. For the former defensive coordinator at Oklahoma State, Beckman decided this was about average and moved on with the season.

Not so fast. 2011 was supposed to be the year for the Rockets to take the MAC Championship or at least win their division. Even Phil Steele thought so, and he is a person that knows things. But no, they were denied in a 63-60 shootout and also couldn't get his hands to form a T-shape as time was winding down. Considering Illinois projects never to be in the lead at ends of games, they ignored these oversights during the interview process.

When contacted for reasoning for taking the job at Illinois, Beckman exclaimed, "I just came to the realization that I could never beat NIU again as head coach of Toledo. I tried to take out their QB, but he just came back out of nowhere and I can't even sleep now because he haunts my dreams at night.

Now I will take my experience as a winner of zero postseason games as a head coach and will spread my coaching prowess to the Fighting Ilini. The best part about this deal is that I won't have to face NIU in the near future. They almost beat the Orange & Blue in 2010 and we'll duck them as much as we can under my watch."

Let the MACtion spread. Let it spread.
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Qualified for the Rose Bowl twice in the last decade.

Sign me up.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Here's the list of schools who are:

a) within 200 miles of two top-20 metropolitan areas;
b) are BCS schools; and
c) both of those metropolitan areas turn out a large number of DI-A football prospects on an annual basis (thus meaning that being close is actually a bonus in that there are a lot of players to choose from)

1. USC (LA and San Diego)
2. UCLA (LA and San Diego)
3. Notre Dame (Chicago and Detroit)
4. Texas (Houston and Dallas)
5. Texas A&M (Houston and Dallas)
6. Baylor (Houston and Dallas)
7. Illinois (Chicago and St. Louis)

That's it. That's the list. Outside of Baylor and Illinois, all of those schools have been elite powers at one point or another, and what we are seeing at Baylor is evidence that it can happen for Illinois with the right coach.
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How is Baylor going 9-3 with an Alamo Bowl berth evidence that Illinois can be an elite power? Seems much more likely that this good year by Baylor (with a certain quarterback) will match Illinois' history of a very good/great season followed by going into the tank and firing its coach soon after.
 

Maximus said:
How is Baylor going 9-3 with an Alamo Bowl berth evidence that Illinois can be an elite power? Seems much more likely that this good year by Baylor (with a certain quarterback) will match Illinois' history of a very good/great season followed by going into the tank and firing its coach soon after.
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You say that Baylor got lucky for one year with a great QB and will sink back to normal. I say that Baylor is much better as a team than you give them credit for (you can't win with nothing else besides a great QB - see Vanderbilt with Jay Cutler), that Briles has improved Baylor dramatically over where they were when he was hired (just as he did at Houston), that Baylor has finally found a good coach, and that they will continue to be good while he is there. Neither of us can disprove the other at this point. Let's see where it ends up over the next few years.

As for Illinois, nothing anyone can say will ever dissuade me that they are little more than hiring a good coach away from being a very good-to-great team. People want to try every reason under the sun for why their college football team is no good, but the difference between sucking and not is almost always boiled down to whether you have a good coach or not. Minnesota hasn't had a good coach other than Lou Holtz for almost 50 years, and that's why we've sucked. Notre Dame hasn't had a good coach since Lou Holtz, and that's why they've sucked. UCLA hasn't had a good coach since Terry Donahue, and that's why they've sucked. Indiana finally had a good coach, and then they sucked a little less, but then he died, and now they've resumed sucking. I could go on. It's a lot less complicated than a lot of people want to make it out to be. Illinois has a lot more inherent advantages than most (see above), and that's why they are a good coaching hire away from being great. I'm 99.9% positive that Tim Beckman is not that coach, and thus Illinois will continue to wander in the desert like many who fail to be successful with their coaching hires.
 



dpodoll68 said:
Here's the list of schools who are:

a) within 200 miles of two top-20 metropolitan areas;
b) are BCS schools; and
c) both of those metropolitan areas turn out a large number of DI-A football prospects on an annual basis (thus meaning that being close is actually a bonus in that there are a lot of players to choose from)

1. USC (LA and San Diego)
2. UCLA (LA and San Diego)
3. Notre Dame (Chicago and Detroit)
4. Texas (Houston and Dallas)
5. Texas A&M (Houston and Dallas)
6. Baylor (Houston and Dallas)
7. Illinois (Chicago and St. Louis)

That's it. That's the list. Outside of Baylor and Illinois, all of those schools have been elite powers at one point or another, and what we are seeing at Baylor is evidence that it can happen for Illinois with the right coach.
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I think you could add these schools to your list:

1) Maryland (Balt and DC)
2) Virginia (Balt and DC)
3) Rutgers (NYC and Phil)
4) Connecticut (Boston and NYC)
5) Boston College (Boston and NYC)
6) West Virginia (Balt, Wash DC, Pitt - all fringe)
 

tjgopher said:
I think you could add these schools to your list:

1) Maryland (Balt and DC)
2) Virginia (Balt and DC)
3) Rutgers (NYC and Phil)
4) Connecticut (Boston and NYC)
5) Boston College (Boston and NYC)
6) West Virginia (Balt, Wash DC, Pitt - all fringe)
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None of New York City, Boston, Baltimore, or Washington, D.C. turn out very many DI-A football players, especially not on a per-capita basis. Basketball players, yes - tons. That is why I added rule #3 - it doesn't do very much good to be near huge population centers if they don't turn out many players. I don't know exactly why the Northeast corridor doesn't turn out very many quality football players, but if they did, the Big East wouldn't be such a joke in football.
 

dpodoll68 said:
None of New York City, Boston, Baltimore, or Washington, D.C. turn out very many DI-A football players, especially not on a per-capita basis. Basketball players, yes - tons. That is why I added rule #3 - it doesn't do very much good to be near huge population centers if they don't turn out many players.
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You serious?? You may want to check some recruiting data bases before ruling out hotbeds of Baltimore, Wash DC, Philly, and NY/NJ. Those markets produce TONS of D-I talent, way more than St. Louis. Not even close.

A search of the Rivals database within 50 miles of each of the markets shows St. Louis is way, way behind. In fact, Baltimore/DC produce more BCS recruits than Chicago. New Jersey, Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Maryland are all in the Top 20 for states producing BCS football recruits. All more than Missouri (which also includes Kansas City).

In addition, many Big Ten teams have fringe Top 40 markets like Indianapolis, Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Milwaukee. Adding those metro areas (many hotbeds) reduces any perceived advantage Illinois might have by being close to St. Louis, IMHO. I would argue Indiana or Purdue actually have the same or better advantage than Illinois with Indy, Chicago, St. Louis, Detroit, Cincinatti all within 4-5 hours of campus. Obviously that hasn't helped those schools much. Michigan and MSU are each within 4-5 hours of Chicago, Detroit, Indy, Cleveland, Pittsburgh.

In addition to Balt/DC, many of those ACC schools also have Top 40 markets like Charlotte, Jacksonville, Orlando, Pittsburgh, to choose from, in addition to Miami and Atlanta being nearby.

I just don't see Illinois being anything that special. Apathetic fanbase, middle of downstate Illinois in arguably the worst of all Big Ten markets to live in, still a long way from Chicago, and competing against Notre Dame, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa and many others for recruits in Chicago/STL.
 

tjgopher said:
You serious?? You may want to check some recruiting data bases before ruling out hotbeds of Baltimore, Wash DC, Philly, and NY/NJ. Those markets produce TONS of D-I talent, way more than St. Louis. Not even close.

A search of the Rivals database within 50 miles of each of the markets shows St. Louis is way, way behind. In fact, Baltimore/DC produce more BCS recruits than Chicago. New Jersey, Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Maryland are all in the Top 20 for states producing BCS football recruits. All more than Missouri (which also includes Kansas City).

In addition, many Big Ten teams have fringe Top 40 markets like Indianapolis, Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Milwaukee. Adding those metro areas (many hotbeds) reduces any perceived advantage Illinois might have by being close to St. Louis, IMHO. I would argue Indiana or Purdue actually have the same or better advantage than Illinois with Indy, Chicago, St. Louis, Detroit, Cincinatti all within 4-5 hours of campus. Obviously that hasn't helped those schools much. Michigan and MSU are each within 4-5 hours of Chicago, Detroit, Indy, Cleveland, Pittsburgh.

In addition to Balt/DC, many of those ACC schools also have Top 40 markets like Charlotte, Jacksonville, Orlando, Pittsburgh, to choose from, in addition to Miami and Atlanta being nearby.

I just don't see Illinois being anything that special. Apathetic fanbase, middle of downstate Illinois in arguably the worst of all Big Ten markets to live in, still a long way from Chicago, and competing against Notre Dame, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa and many others for recruits in Chicago/STL.
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I agree, the original list may have seemed like a good idea, but using the "That's it. That's the list." comments are totally wrong and beg for others to show your errors. You can go around and also add various other schools using your criteria like San Diego State, etc...
 

I stand corrected on St. Louis and Baltimore-DC (not technically the same metro by MSA stats, but pretty much are for all intents and purposes). I thought St. Louis produced more, and the Baltimore-DC area produced less. NYC, though, especially for being the largest metro (by far) in the U.S., doesn't produce very much. In 2011, areas within 50 miles of Manhattan produced 45 DI-A signees. For comparison's sake, the Miami metro area (within 50 miles), with a population a little more than a quarter of the NYC metro, produced 112 DI-A signees in 2011.
 

Maximus said:
The last time they were a perennial Big Ten contending team was in the 10s and 20s.

Three BT titles since Minnesota's last one (44 years ago) puts you just above Minnesota, not just below Alabama, Texas, Ohio State, etc.

Illinois is a job that can provide a year or two of good/great success (Zook to Rose Bowl/Turner to Sugar Bowl/Mackovic went 7-1 in year two then 4-4 in year four before leaving)....then it's over.

Passionate fan base? Memorial holds 60,000+. Illinois has averaged that three times in the last 20 years. Averaged 43,000 the year before the last Rose Bowl. 39,000 in the late 90s.

Crap town, crap stadium, good job if you take a better one at the first sign of success.
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And they are now stuck in a division with OSU, PSU and Bucky. Not to mention it's a basketball school all the way. Great basketball job. Middling football job at best.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I stand corrected on St. Louis and Baltimore-DC (not technically the same metro by MSA stats, but pretty much are for all intents and purposes). I thought St. Louis produced more, and the Baltimore-DC area produced less. NYC, though, especially for being the largest metro (by far) in the U.S., doesn't produce very much. In 2011, areas within 50 miles of Manhattan produced 45 DI-A signees. For comparison's sake, the Miami metro area (within 50 miles), with a population a little more than a quarter of the NYC metro, produced 112 DI-A signees in 2011.
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You need to check out the New Jersey portion of the NYC metro market. TONS of D-I talent there. Again, an absolute hotbed. Newark, Bayonne, Cherry Hill, Jersey City, Ramsay, etc. all have mucho talent; all within 50-75 miles of NYC. Penn State, Wisconsin, and Iowa have each gotten multiple all-Americans from there.
 


The track coach was just being loyal to his institution. Illinois should be a good gig for the right coach.
 


2 former MAC coaches...

Jerry Kill....solid hire for Minnesota

Tim Beckman...solid hire for Illinois...will be slightly overpaid, but that should keep his focus on the Illini and not on his next job.

Both programs should trend upward in the near future, although both have their work cut out for them.


The Zooker would make a good defensive assistant somewhere.
 

Well, here's that Toledo track coach's reply to the article about his tweets.

"Hard to even know what to say. This is all quite shocking to me that my tweets have caused such an uproar. I didn't even realize my twitter was really that followed. I was trying to express to Tim how much we love having him at Toledo and how much pride we have in this institution. How much pride that I personally have in our program and what we have built.

I feel horrible and anyone that knows me personally or professionally knows that I am sincere. I didn't mean to come across like I was bashing the University of Illinois. I am not sure what else I can say except I am sorry to the Illinois fans and didn't realize something like this would happen.

I genuinely feel bad."

So I would say that's a pretty classy gesture. The guy clearly made a mistake, fessed up to it, and apologized for it- so no harm, no foul in my opinion. It is certainly a different world what with all this social media stuff, and people need to be aware and cognizant of the fact that anything and EVERYTHING they say in that type of format might very well come back to bite them in the rear-end, as this guy found out today.
 


dpodoll68 said:
None of New York City, Boston, Baltimore, or Washington, D.C. turn out very many DI-A football players, especially not on a per-capita basis. Basketball players, yes - tons. That is why I added rule #3 - it doesn't do very much good to be near huge population centers if they don't turn out many players. I don't know exactly why the Northeast corridor doesn't turn out very many quality football players, but if they did, the Big East wouldn't be such a joke in football.
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Washington D.C. turns out a large number of DI-A football players, but overall I agree with you.

The problem with U of Illinois and the city of Chicago is that Illinois isn't viewed as Chicago's college team. That's why Notre Dame, Wisconsin, and Iowa make a living off of recruiting Chicago (NW is limited by academic standards). Illinois could turn that around, sure, but Urbana-Champaign is no more like Chicago than South Bend, Madison, or Iowa City, so I don't think they really benefit from having Chicago nearby anymore than 4-5 other Big Ten teams do.

Also, Notre Dame is damn close (Chicago, and 214 miles from Detroit) Ditto the Michigan schools with Chicago.
 

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