Offensive coordinator.

Schnoodler

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I'm having a really difficult time finding something to build from. For a while, I thought I was seeing a semblance of game plan but it never materialized and so I doubt it was there. What strength does this offense have that would show that we can build something useful next year? Anybody? There must be something.
 

I'm having a really difficult time finding something to build from. For a while, I thought I was seeing a semblance of game plan but it never materialized and so I doubt it was there. What strength does this offense have that would show that we can build something useful next year? Anybody? There must be something.

Your thoughts are coming off a little unclear and cluttered. But you are wondering what value this offense has, right?

Offensively, I think you can look at the receiving corps as something you can build with. Lots of players who can do some damage there. It's really too bad about Broderick Smith though - he was going to make it rain this year.
 

Quick question re: the offense - can someone please post the SIZE of the RBs who have committed so far? I've seen flashes of ability that excite me in Whaley but am concerned that we'll have nothing but smallish RBs in the stable going forward. Are any of the commits bigger more workhorse type backs?
 

Yes, I am pretty excited about McKnight. Considering he's still learning at a basic level he looks really good. And I do like green too. So yes i'd agree.

Sorry if the post was unclear. I'm just trying to get a sense of what we can accomplish for next year. I thought by now we'd have a little bit of a positive identity. I'm hoping someone else can see it so then maybe I can too.
 

Your thoughts are coming off a little unclear and cluttered. But you are wondering what value this offense has, right?

Offensively, I think you can look at the receiving corps as something you can build with. Lots of players who can do some damage there. It's really too bad about Broderick Smith though - he was going to make it rain this year.

How bad are things when we miss Broderick Smith?

We have to continue to be a pass-happy team if Weber is still the no.1 guy imo.

If Grey gets a chance-we will have to become a running team very quickly.

I just don't see how we will become a balanced (successful) team without something dramatic happening with the O-Line.
 


For comparison purposes, whaley came in listed 5-9 166.

Kirkwood 5-10 197
Huff 5-10 185

Not big, but bigger.
 

I really think one of the problems is that Fisch put too much into the offense. He has to scale it back a bit in my estimation.
 

Gray...

My take is that one of the big keys on the "attack" side of the O is M Gray.

Arguably the most talented, big and athletic play-making weapon in the entire G O arsenal.

For example, if he had been used at Iowa as the WR in that red zone fade...instead of Troy S...the result might have been 6 since he has many of Deck's skills and leaping ability.

The question is: Where is he used most effectively to put up points?

QB where he was recruited or at WR now being suggested by Brew?

Or, maybe at RB as suggested by some or Brew's favorite...TE?

Beyond JF's obvious need to scale back the O to a level that collegiate athletes can implement consistently, Gray is probably the #1 key and the decision on exactly where to use him may be the most important O personnel decision Brew is facing next year imho.
 

I wish I would have heard what Brew said about Gray. Was he talking about a position switch or a second position while he's waiting for a legit chance to be QB. Is Brew giving up on Gray as a QB or just searching for more ways to get him in the game with Weber. Right now, the way they do it i think makes the offense worse as I don't think either QB can get comfy. More talent should make it a team better.
 



For comparison purposes, whaley came in listed 5-9 166.

Kirkwood 5-10 197
Huff 5-10 185

Not big, but bigger.

Any idea if Kirkwood has room on his frame for a few extra pounds?
 

I'm having a really difficult time finding something to build from. For a while, I thought I was seeing a semblance of game plan but it never materialized and so I doubt it was there. What strength does this offense have that would show that we can build something useful next year? Anybody? There must be something.


I think the thing to build on is that there was a game plan in place. There were a lot of complaints about a lack of identity here, but I saw the opposite. I saw, like you, what they were trying to do. The problem is that they did not do it. Maybe this is unfounded optomism on my part, but with pretty much everyone we saw on the field on Saturday coming back, I expect things to get a lot better.

Here's why: the offense that Fisch is running takes time to perfect. Allen's poor routes at the end of the game were a perfect example. The discussions you saw on the sideline between Fisch and Weber were discussions about reads. Weber was expected to see one thing, but too often he didn't see it or the receivers saw something different. The receivers are expected to make a read and respond. Freshmen and sophomores have a tough time doing that, even by the end of a season. Timing also takes a while to get down, and it does not happen over the course of one season. It takes off-season practices, time in the film room, etc.

To answer the final part of your question, the most useful part of the offense next year will be that it will be the second year. It does not matter what play is called if it is not executed, and I expect to see more plays executed next year because it will be the second year in the offense. I am not sayig this because of unfounded hope. I am saying this because I have seen it happen over and over again.
 

To answer the final part of your question, the most useful part of the offense next year will be that it will be the second year. It does not matter what play is called if it is not executed, and I expect to see more plays executed next year because it will be the second year in the offense. I am not sayig this because of unfounded hope. I am saying this because I have seen it happen over and over again.


Agreed. Best thing about next year, if you want to call it that, is that the bulk of the offense is back, a year older, a year stronger, and year more in tune with this system. I expect big leaps out of a number of kids next season, and an offensive line that is head and shoulders above this year's version.
 

I can kind of agree 12th. It seemed every crappy play there was a breakdown somewhere. It wasn't usually talked about. But you could see the recievers wandering off their routes, either not completing them or lacking the crispness that would lead to an accurate connection. A part of the problem some of us see is too much complication. But maybe that just means it will take longer to bring it together. I hope you're right.
 



I still wonder if Brewster has seen something in Moses, that makes him think that Gray would be a better asset at rec. and MOses at QB??? Problem there is that then we go through next yr. with the same QB situation we have this yr, but with Moses and Weber. That would be terrible.
 

I wish I would have heard what Brew said about Gray. Was he talking about a position switch or a second position while he's waiting for a legit chance to be QB. Is Brew giving up on Gray as a QB or just searching for more ways to get him in the game with Weber. Right now, the way they do it i think makes the offense worse as I don't think either QB can get comfy. More talent should make it a team better.

Right now, given Brew's recent comments, the whole "How will Gray be used" issue seems to be a mystery for everyone here.

Maybe someone close to the program has the answer and will post.

Or maybe Brew will keep that move locked-down until the bowl.
 

I really think one of the problems is that Fisch put too much into the offense. He has to scale it back a bit in my estimation.

+1

Start with something fairly simple and add to it over time. Until we get to the point where our frosh and sophomores get a year or two of learning the system prior to getting on the turf, what Fisch put in this year is too much IMO.
 

I really think one of the problems is that Fisch put too much into the offense. He has to scale it back a bit in my estimation.

I've seen that happen before. You'd hope they'd scale back for the bowl game - try to put the best product out there possible - and then teach hard in the spring.

Fisch is trying to install his take on the Spurrier timing passing game. It's not complicated in theory:

* get receivers that compel the opponent to play zone;
* identify the zone being played;
* challenge individual defenders with two receivers;
* drop the ball into the slot the defender creates by his choice.

The running game is set up by the pass - the most basic running play is the sprint draw. Once the passing game is established, linebackers will be overly eager to drop into their zones - at that point, they're running away from the running back. If they don't, they'll soon see play action off the sprint draw look & the ball will be flying over their heads.

That's not what the Gophers offense looks like. I hope it's because the kids are still learning.
 

I really think one of the problems is that Fisch put too much into the offense. He has to scale it back a bit in my estimation.

Scale it back? The only play we run is fullback up the middle! ;)
 

man, when i want to read some good discussion about football i read the posts of 12man and braddad. putting aside whether they are right or not, i always seem to learn something about football--and usually gopher football.

too bad this place is such a circus, it is hard to cut through the clutter and identify the posters who make their posts count.
 

Agreed. Best thing about next year, if you want to call it that, is that the bulk of the offense is back, a year older, a year stronger, and year more in tune with this system. I expect big leaps out of a number of kids next season, and an offensive line that is head and shoulders above this year's version.

Are we absolutely certain that Fisch isn't going to be made a scapegoat here (rightly or wrongly)? Do we know for sure that he'll be back so that this continuity thing has a chance to materialize?
 

Are we absolutely certain that Fisch isn't going to be made a scapegoat here (rightly or wrongly)? Do we know for sure that he'll be back so that this continuity thing has a chance to materialize?


Unfortunately, we don't know for sure yet. Thing were ugly this year, to be sure. I am of the opinion, however, that another change in OC- even for someone running a similar offense- would be tough on the team. Small things like terminology and slightly different routes can throw players for a loop. Another year in the offense might not work at all, and the offense might be terrible next year also, but I think it is the best chance the team has right now. We can certainly hope.
 

Well, I've crawled off the ledge and am going to hope for improvement by the bowl game even if it is against Oklahoma's defense. Some time off for the players should benefit them greatly. While they have the time off, I would hope our coaches really examine things; decide why things went so wrong; come up with the best way to fix it; and then put in a game plan that gives us a chance. It just seems like this offense has too many moving parts. To make it worse, as it sputters, Fisch keeps putting in more moving parts. We get trick plays that don't work, penalties at the worse times, receivers that run poor routes, turnovers because players aren't on the same page, an ineffective pattern where another quarterback comes in for one play, delay of game penalties because people are confused, and, worse of all, a starting quarterback who has lost all confidence.

It's been said by others, but get some basic plays down first; don't keep building a house of cards that just collapses. Short slants have had the greatest chance of success; work on them even more. The play action long pass worked against Michigan State and Weber had a great chance early but McKnight short armed it. Get it ready, use it, but not over and over like you did against Illinois. Tight end over the middle? Good play; work on it even more. The bubble screen to Stoudermire has some promise so work on that also. I don't know enough about reads and defenses but get these plays down and run them when you call them. Adjusting to the defense sure as hell isn't working.

The running game is more problematic. Put Whaley in and go with him. You need a short yardage play. Find the best spot and then work it over and over with those linemen. It might be boring but it's needed more than putting in 3 or 4 multiple reverse plays.

Now as for next year. First, everything about the coaches and the system for the bowl game goes double for next year about simplifying. Several people said the offense needs time; players need experience; timing hasn't been established, etc. Problem with that theory is our offense has gotten worse the more time the players have spent in it.

Second, the receivers do have potential and I agree they should become better. That's the biggest asset we have on offense.

Third, hopefully, Whaley can put on ten more pounds without losing any quickness or else one of the new backs can add more power and speed.

Fourth, Weber has been absolutely awful at times, but he has also shown he can be a decent Big Ten quarterback. He seems like he works hard. Maybe a fresh start after an off season of drills on his mechanics and working with his receivers will give us an effective and consistent quarterback. Don't know what to think about Gray. Maybe it's not a problem, but it seems like if you go with him, you are again trying to get these players at least partially into another new system.

I realize I haven't mentioned our offensive line. I don't hold out as much hope for them as a returning unit, but maybe several of the present linemen can develop. Maybe Michel, Olson, and another redshirt can step in at times to give us some more toughness and agility.

We are basically young and these guys should be stronger along with the more experience. But I think the real key for next year will be how much Fisch learned from this year. I don't think we're going to have to wait until next year to find out; I think the bowl game will give us a pretty good indication of his potential as a coach.
 

It will be interesting to see what shakes out if Shanahan gets a coaching job in the offseason, or even Billick.

Fisch has an in with both, and it wouldn't be shocking if he gets a call to go back to the NFL.
 

While I wasn't impressed with Fisch's scheme this year (who would be, considering the results?), I don't know that firing him or losing him to the NFL would be a good thing. Assuming Brewster's contract doesn't get extended anytime soon, would anyone worth the title want to come in for a year or two?
 

I actually really like Fisch. I have said it all year. I think he is intelligent and is a hard worker. Also since he is young - he will only get better and more creative.

The problem is - that they're running his offense on first and third downs - but running the Marqueis offense on 2nd down.

Quarterback platoons rarely work - much less offensive system platoons. As soon as they decide to go with one offensive system the results will get better. Not 50+ppg right away, but it will improve.
 




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