Notre Dame Considers Not Going It Alone

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They're the obvious pick to join the BT, if you ask me. Geographically, rivalry-wise, history-wise, academics-wise .. it all fits. If they're willing to consider, the BT should be willing to talk A LOT to them.

However, it seems like Swarbrick is taking a reactionary, rather than proactive, approach to the whole thing -- see how the chips fall, then scramble to join somewhere.
 

Maybe the bigten has been flirting with Rutgers, Pitt, and such to make Notre Dame realize this might be their last chance to get into the bigten. If a lot of big moves happen, they could be the ones left holding the bag, especially if a play-off system is started, and they have to scramble to join a conference to hope to participate regularly in good bowls. I think the best option for for adding to the bigten is Notre Dame (or just cut a team and get back to 10). Notre Dame has to come to terms with not being able to hand pick their schedule every year and join a real conference. They'll still have 4 free spots open for their non-bigten rivals.

GO GOPHERS!
 

FWIW, Notre Dame is the ideal candidate to join. Regionally, historically, economically, academically they make the most sense. Notre Dame-Northwestern would instantly become the biggest game in Chicago every year. Not to mention they already play 3-4 games annually with the big ten already. With four non-conf games they could easily maintain their rivalry with USC and split the remaining 3 games between the service academies and anyone else.
 

I don't hate ND as much as many on this board, but I have to question just why they cling to their football independence so dearly? I get the prestige, some freedoms like scheduling and since they are already known nationally don't need any added exposure. but i've read they would make more money in the big 10. Is there something else I'm missing? Is ND really just that arrogant?
 


Notre Dame to Big Ten?

I think it would be a great idea. Location, academics. history, plus they are in the middle of Big Ten country.

They would still make out fine money-wise. Just tell NBC to null their contract. Easy? Probably not, but it would be worth a try.:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Go Gophers!!!!!
 

gophergrad said:
I don't hate ND as much as many on this board, but I have to question just why they cling to their football independence so dearly? I get the prestige, some freedoms like scheduling and since they are already known nationally don't need any added exposure. but i've read they would make more money in the big 10. Is there something else I'm missing? Is ND really just that arrogant?
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They might be. But maybe they're so used to operating unfettered that it scares them to get tied down. I look at my own business associations over the years and understand that kind of caution. Sometimes things that have worked well fall apart when you change the recipe. Here's an example that has nothing to do with football, just business: There was a popular restaurant in the Lake Minnetonka area. The place had people standing out the door most every night, but for sure on Fridays and Saturdays. This went on for many years. Finally an adviser convinced the owner that he could make a lot more money if he expanded the dining room. The restaurant expanded and a year later closed its doors for good. What happened? Expansion changed everything. It changed the way customers saw the place. No longer did they need to hurry and stand in line to get in. When they did go it didn't seem that crowded anymore, like it wasn't the hot spot any longer. Time to move on. The place lost its unique appeal. The cost of expansion saddled them with higher overhead than they had ever experienced and they couldn't handle the decreased business, even for a few months. I'm not saying ND is a restaurant, but cautious executives are careful about leaping into deals that forever change the face of an organization.
 

First of all I'd love to add Notre Dame to the B11 but why is everyone saying it is a perfect fit? Sports sure but wouldn't Notre Dame fit in better academically and size wise with the Big East that also has many small, private catholic schools? I thought this expansion wasn't only about sports to the higher ups.
 

Notre Dame would be one of the top schools in terms of academics in the Big Ten (behind only Northwestern and MAYBE Michigan) and they have one of the top 15 largest endowments in the country. Not to mention the fan following they bring. Academically and financially, the Big Ten would love to have them.
 



The Big Ten would be better for Notre Dame than the other way around. Texas is the school the Big Ten wants. They have the academics and would catapult recruiting prowess (or at least perceived recruiting prowess) for most Big Ten squads even or past that of the SEC.

Texas, take the money and run (from the Big 12
 

I think all this expansion talk has just been to get Notre Dame to make a decision. If Notre Dame thinks the Big Ten offer will be there forever, they will stay independent as long as possible.
 

It helps that 10 wins gets them into a BCS game where they get to keep all the money for themselves...10 wins might not get you there in the B10 or any other conference.
 

Gopher07 said:
Notre Dame would be one of the top schools in terms of academics in the Big Ten (behind only Northwestern and MAYBE Michigan) and they have one of the top 15 largest endowments in the country. Not to mention the fan following they bring. Academically and financially, the Big Ten would love to have them.
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I agree that the Big Ten would love to have them and that they would brings TONS to the table. But the discussion of Notre Dame's academic prowess always makes me laugh. Don't get me wrong, it is an excellent school. But generally, the rankings most cited are the US News rankings. While all rankings differ somewhat, they place high points on HS standardized testing scores of applicants, alumni giving, Top 10% HS applicants, class size and acceptance rate. Those are areas that a school like Notre Dame excels in comparatively to other schools. Are those good indicators of a schools excellence. I'd argue not completely. Important, yes, but only part of the story. I would rate schools more along the lines of the quality of its faculty, its research dollar income, patents and individual programs. I am in no way disparaging Notre Dame academically because it is indeed an excellent school, but I would say they are clearly behind Northwestern and Michigan, similar to Penn State, Illinois and (I hate to say it) UW. It is a real challenge to rank schools like Notre Dame against large research schools, so its tough to get a real comparision. As for the rankings, I wish I could find it, but on another website a few years ago, some guy posted the "academic peer rankings" part of the US News rankings of Notre Dame and Boston College to prove they were scoring higher than they academically warranted due to their selectivity and alumni giving ratios. I don't fully subscribe to that (and not sure if it is still true today), but I have a hard time saying a school is better based on selectivity. I recall that ranking post because I used it in my argument with a former co-worker who was a Notre Dame alum who constantly referred to ND as an "Ivy". When that got debunked, he started in on how Northwestern and Stanford were safety schools for Notre Dame applicants. Yes, he believed it, it wasn't schtick. Which by the way answers the "are they really that arrogant" question pondered by another poster.
 



gophergrad said:
I don't hate ND as much as many on this board, but I have to question just why they cling to their football independence so dearly? I get the prestige, some freedoms like scheduling and since they are already known nationally don't need any added exposure. but i've read they would make more money in the big 10. Is there something else I'm missing? Is ND really just that arrogant?
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I could be getting a lot of "I'll NEVER donate to Notre Dame again if you join the Big Ten" messages from some influential alumni and donors. That could also explain why back in 1999, the Notre Dame faculty senate endorsed the idea with a near unanimous vote, the ND board of trustees decided against joining the conference.

Academically Notre Dame has a strong undergraduate program but I don't think that it's a strong research school. Studwell mentioned a few years ago that they have been spending a lot of money trying to change that.
 

FarmGopher said:
Maybe the bigten has been flirting with Rutgers, Pitt, and such to make Notre Dame realize this might be their last chance to get into the bigten. If a lot of big moves happen, they could be the ones left holding the bag, especially if a play-off system is started, and they have to scramble to join a conference to hope to participate regularly in good bowls. I think the best option for for adding to the bigten is Notre Dame (or just cut a team and get back to 10). Notre Dame has to come to terms with not being able to hand pick their schedule every year and join a real conference. They'll still have 4 free spots open for their non-bigten rivals.

GO GOPHERS!
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I agree that the B10 is likely using this process to help push ND (and possibly Texas if they're thinking really big) into realizing that the extra money that could be realized (thanks to the Big Ten Network) and the improvement in academics both point to joining the Big Ten. By threatening to take other schools instead, they also threaten to destabilize the current situations of both schools, thereby adding even more pressure to join up. This is especially true for Texas since losing Mizzou would hurt the Big XII TV deal (and likely convince Colorado to seek out the Pac-10 which would be a double whammy on the conference). But as Farm notes, it also works with ND b/c being an independent is less attractive in a world of super-conferences.

Assuming that this is the plan, the real beauty lies in the fact that you might uncover other options besides ND/Texas that prove to be worth pursuing. Or, you find out no one else works and you stay where you are (which is a really good spot to be). In the end, the one sure thing is that the Big Ten is in the driver's seat and can afford to be picky if they want. The only concern I see is that they get greedy/reckless and take a flyer on schools that might not deliver the goods TV money wise...but given the "traditional" nature of this conference I'm not terribly worried about that.
 

gophergrad said:
I don't hate ND as much as many on this board, but I have to question just why they cling to their football independence so dearly? I get the prestige, some freedoms like scheduling and since they are already known nationally don't need any added exposure. but i've read they would make more money in the big 10. Is there something else I'm missing? Is ND really just that arrogant?
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Well, I know the faculty boards/groups voted to join the Big Ten the last time the offer was extended so the academic side of the house wants in. I think its a "state of mind" thing. Call it arrogance or prestige or whatever, but like other posters have noted if that state of mind is tied to donations then it could end up being a monetary reason to stay on their own.

Part of the reason its good that this process could take 18 months to play out. Assuming ND is worried about losing money they'll have a lot of time to ponder whether the money gained from joining the Big Ten outweighs short term drops in funding from boosters who throw a hissy fit.
 

at the bar said:
First of all I'd love to add Notre Dame to the B11 but why is everyone saying it is a perfect fit? Sports sure but wouldn't Notre Dame fit in better academically and size wise with the Big East that also has many small, private catholic schools? I thought this expansion wasn't only about sports to the higher ups.
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Isn't the issue with Notre Dame's academics not the quality of the undergraduate programs but the fact that they aren't as big into research as the Big Ten schools are? If that is the case then joining the Big Ten would be a shot of adrenaline in this regard via the CIC.
AhliBobwa said:
The Big Ten would be better for Notre Dame than the other way around. Texas is the school the Big Ten wants. They have the academics and would catapult recruiting prowess (or at least perceived recruiting prowess) for most Big Ten squads even or past that of the SEC.

Texas, take the money and run (from the Big 12
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If my above note is an accurate assessment of ND's academics then I think adding ND would be mutually beneficial. ND adds more money for the Big Ten via the Big Ten Network and the Big Ten improves ND's research base. In the end both end up stronger.

Texas is the same, but with a guaranteed win/win right away via the already strong academics and better athletic program/cable base for the Big Ten Network. That's my thought about it anyway.
 

Son of a Badger said:
It helps that 10 wins gets them into a BCS game where they get to keep all the money for themselves...10 wins might not get you there in the B10 or any other conference.
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But if the current alignment turns into the "superconference" model then there is no guarantee that this easier path to the BCS wouldn't disappear. Also, joining the Big Ten would guarantee Notre Dame a BCS payout sized increase in revenue EVERY YEAR. Which would you choose monetarily:
1) $10 million a year from NBC plus the chance to earn the BCS payout ($15 million I think?).
2) A guaranteed $22 million (what all Big Ten schools make now) payout that will likely jump even higher thanks to your membership EVERY season.

Keep in mind that Notre Dame's delusions of grandeur aside, the last couple of years have proven that even an easy road doesn't guarantee the BCS berth.
 


if i could choose i would rather have texas than ND, if we did get texas do you think colorado would leave to the pac 10? and if that happened what would happen to the big twelve?
 


gopheraschells said:
if i could choose i would rather have texas than ND
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I'm kinda torn. I think Texas is better for the conference but worse for Minnesota but it would be a more exciting "get" to me. Ambivalence, sweet ambivalence.
gopheraschells said:
if we did get texas do you think colorado would leave to the pac 10?
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I'm sure they'd try. Whether the Pac-10 agrees is another question.
gopheraschells said:
and if that happened what would happen to the big twelve?
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World of hurt. Whether it stayed intact would probably depend on whether other conferences like the Big Ten, Pac-10, and SEC decided to steal any other schools away. But if it stayed together it's next TV contract would be really crappy.
 

Gopher07 said:
Notre Dame would be one of the top schools in terms of academics in the Big Ten (behind only Northwestern and MAYBE Michigan) and they have one of the top 15 largest endowments in the country. Not to mention the fan following they bring. Academically and financially, the Big Ten would love to have them.
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Notre Dame doesn't fit academically with the Big Ten at all. With the exception of Northwestern they have nothing in common at all with other Big Ten schools. They are an excellant school, they just do not match up with the Land Grant Research schools that dominate the Big Ten. That is why Penn State was such an excellant addition, they are not only athletically competitive they provided the same academic structure.
 

It has always been about Notre Dame and we all knew it in the back of our minds.... even if some of us don't want to admit it.

Get them on board and end these Texas and Rutgers shenanigans.

Oh and I think it is quite possible that Notre Dame might want to join the Big Ten in order to jump start its academic research programs. Being in the company of such high end research institutions will help provide the push needed for ND to break out of that 'non-research school' mold.
 

MrGopher said:
I think it is quite possible that Notre Dame might want to join the Big Ten in order to jump start its academics.
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Their football recruits have to be able to take freshman calculus.

Do ours?

:confused:
 

Studwell55 said:
Their football recruits have to be able to take freshman calculus.

Do ours?

:confused:
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Maybe that's why they can't win anymore.

You know he's talking about grad programs anyway, I mean, we all know that Notre Dame has crappy grad programs, they even let you in.
 

NateDawgUM said:
Maybe that's why they can't win anymore.

You know he's talking about grad programs anyway, I mean, we all know that Notre Dame has crappy grad programs, they even let you in.
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Circle gets the square!
 

If we are playing Hollywood Squares, is Studwell Bruce Vilanch?
 


I wonder what else would change at Notre Dame. Do you guys think they would start redshirting if they joined the Big 10?
 

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