Nolan Groves

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All I know is I wouldn't want to be the one evaluating and trying to get the right players. At this point Groves ability appears to be somewhere between mid major and P4 on a better team than the Gophers. Time will tell what end of the spectrum he lands on. I do doubt he dropped out of the Ivy League to sit the bench for Texas Tech. In the past it was completely understandable to have a more narrow focus on recruiting with limited scholarships to give each year. In the NIL world teams are bringing in 5-10 players every year. No excuse for not spending more time getting to know the Gatorade player of the year from your own state. Even if you think he is a scorer off the bench you offer. This isn't a guy from some 1A outstate school. He is on a well coached team that played against the best teams in the state regardless of class.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
It was just a verbal commitment, and that means very little in today's world. His new interest also came before he decommitted, it always works that way.

Yale has also been the best Ivy league program over the past decade with a history of finding under the radar recruits and developing them into really good players. If they were interested, there's no reason the Gophers shouldn't have been as well.

How many MN recruits hit the transfer portal this year that were not recruited out of high school that we would have loved to take now? There were many. Those are the guys you can fill out the end of your bench with and develop a program with, rather than not even trying.

It's the not trying for so many local recruits that has always bothered me and many others about Ben. Well after the fact that the Gophers problems were always someone else's fault. It was never his, just ask him.
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Why did Wisconsin and TT wait until now to offer also? It's pretty telling to me when he went from 0 top offers to 3 as soon as he decomitted. Your point would make more sense IMO if he was getting these better offers throughout his senior season.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I'm far from a supporter of Ben Johnson (in fact, I'm one of his biggest haters), but to blame him for not recruiting Groves is not only dumb, but also stupid. He didn't have a high-major offer until a few days ago. You can't simultaneously say the Gophers are settling for low-major talent and then complain when they don't offer low-major players.

I also saw a guy on Twitter comparing Groves to Perich. Yes, I'm sure Groves is a once-in-a-generation type player who immediately starts and is one of the best freshmen in the country.
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There's a way to say this without calling people stupid.
 

GophersInIowa said:
In this case though, Groves was committed to Yale well before he blew up. He's only getting all this attention now because he decommitted and is now available again.
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Don’t think you could say he blew up. Three solid offers . A couple because of location and one with a relationship with a staff. At this point I would look at him as a mid major player and it’s good to see he will get a chance to prove he’s better than that.
 

Blackhammer said:
Don’t think you could say he blew up. Three solid offers . A couple because of location and one with a relationship with a staff. At this point I would look at him as a mid major player and it’s good to see he will get a chance to prove he’s better than that.
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Well whatever you want to call it. His best offers came after his huge senior season.
 


Bad Gopher said:
There's a way to say this without calling people stupid.
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I'll try. The fact that Ben didn't recruit this kid isn't his (Ben's) fault. The Orono coach calling it unfortunate that Ben didn't show interest could be said about every other high major D1 school who also never showed any interest. Ben's job was to try and put a winning team together with experienced talent. He spent more time, as he should have, trying to recruit from the portal, but he did also show a knack for finding talented high school kids (Payne, Christie, kids this year Jefferson, etc.)

The Orono coach is an alum of the U and has a lot of connections and is a well known person in the basketball community. The comment is a little strange from someone who is that well connected and understands the landscape and how things work. More of an emotional comment than an objective one.
 

Juicer said:
I'll try. The fact that Ben didn't recruit this kid isn't his (Ben's) fault. The Orono coach calling it unfortunate that Ben didn't show interest could be said about every other high major D1 school who also never showed any interest. Ben's job was to try and put a winning team together with experienced talent. He spent more time, as he should have, trying to recruit from the portal, but he did also show a knack for finding talented high school kids (Payne, Christie, kids this year Jefferson, etc.)

The Orono coach is an alum of the U and has a lot of connections and is a well known person in the basketball community. The comment is a little strange from someone who is that well connected and understands the landscape and how things work. More of an emotional comment than an objective one.
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Well put.
 

Slim Tubby said:
There's far too much logic being applied in this post to deny it's legitimacy.

Ben's gone...I prefer to focus on what the new guy can get done as he establishes his recruiting network locally and nationally. If you win on the court, recruits will start paying more attention, too.

Just a hunch but I think we get this kid unless the TT money is outrageous.
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We won't get him, I think TT wins out, but positive sign that we are pushing for it. NIko is hustling.

Tech spent 4M for one player. If I am a kid that won't crack either rotation, why would I come here for much less money?
 





kix4kix said:
We won't get him, I think TT wins out, but positive sign that we are pushing for it. NIko is hustling.

Tech spent 4M for one player. If I am a kid that won't crack either rotation, why would I come here for much less money?
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Lake Minnetonka >>>>> Lubbock, TX
 


Juicer said:
I'll try. The fact that Ben didn't recruit this kid isn't his (Ben's) fault. The Orono coach calling it unfortunate that Ben didn't show interest could be said about every other high major D1 school who also never showed any interest. Ben's job was to try and put a winning team together with experienced talent. He spent more time, as he should have, trying to recruit from the portal, but he did also show a knack for finding talented high school kids (Payne, Christie, kids this year Jefferson, etc.)

The Orono coach is an alum of the U and has a lot of connections and is a well known person in the basketball community. The comment is a little strange from someone who is that well connected and understands the landscape and how things work. More of an emotional comment than an objective one.
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He was also quoted as saying the "U needs to support the coach more or it won't matter" when Ben was fired.
 



kix4kix said:
Tech spent 4M for one player. If I am a kid that won't crack either rotation, why would I come here for much less money?
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Living in MN playing in front of your friends and family >>> Living in dust bowl Lubbock, TX
 

kix4kix said:
The real question is what answer would satisfy?

I was roasted on here and laughed at for throwing out figures that Payne was getting last year, only for those figures to double this year. On Gopherhole real info is met with not just skepticism but hate lol
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Hate?!
 

dpodoll68 said:
I'm far from a supporter of Ben Johnson (in fact, I'm one of his biggest haters), but to blame him for not recruiting Groves is not only dumb, but also stupid. He didn't have a high-major offer until a few days ago. You can't simultaneously say the Gophers are settling for low-major talent and then complain when they don't offer low-major players.

I also saw a guy on Twitter comparing Groves to Perich. Yes, I'm sure Groves is a once-in-a-generation type player who immediately starts and is one of the best freshmen in the country.
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I see Gophers fans consistently making this argument in defense of one of our many dog shit coaches in the past.

Groves is in our backyard. The Gophers, unlike Texas Tech, Colorado State and Wisconsin, have been absolutely horsecrap for multiple years now. Giving Ben Johnson a pass because elite programs that aren't in this state didn't recruit a gem until he became available is insane. A program like the Gophers needs to make sure they keep their late blooming in state recruits. You can keep in touch with a verbal commit. It's just lazy.

It's fine that Ben Johnson didn't recruit him as a sophomore in high school.

It's completely inexcusable they didn't make any contact this season. It doesn't matter now since he got fired, but as people already mentioned, Groves averaged 34 points a game and was 6'4ish all season. A visit in January should've been a no brainer, especially with the roster turnover every year.
 


dpodoll68 said:
I'm far from a supporter of Ben Johnson (in fact, I'm one of his biggest haters), but to blame him for not recruiting Groves is not only dumb, but also stupid. He didn't have a high-major offer until a few days ago. You can't simultaneously say the Gophers are settling for low-major talent and then complain when they don't offer low-major players.

I also saw a guy on Twitter comparing Groves to Perich. Yes, I'm sure Groves is a once-in-a-generation type player who immediately starts and is one of the best freshmen in the country.
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Considering some of the guys he did recruit I'm not sure your point holds water.
 

CoMn said:
And Dawson didn't commit for Richard....but Dawson did transfer back for Ben. Your point?
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Not to dump on Ben for this one but if I recall correctly didn’t Dawson leave NC to move back to Minnesota because his dad or some family member was having serious medical issues. I also believe he would have had to sit for a year had he transferred to anywhere but Minnesota due to the medical hardship waiver or whatever it was called. Maybe he absolutely loved playing for coach Johnson but I hardly think this decision was as cut and dry as he didn’t like Richard and only came here because Ben was now the coach.

Ben had some really solid individual recruits but struggled to fill his rosters around the edges. Similar to Pitino to a certain extent. Both of their problems was a lack of experience and vision. It’s not their fault but neither should have been hired when they were. I’m happy that Richard has found success elsewhere and I’m hopeful that Ben will to.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I'm far from a supporter of Ben Johnson (in fact, I'm one of his biggest haters), but to blame him for not recruiting Groves is not only dumb, but also stupid. He didn't have a high-major offer until a few days ago. You can't simultaneously say the Gophers are settling for low-major talent and then complain when they don't offer low-major players.

I also saw a guy on Twitter comparing Groves to Perich. Yes, I'm sure Groves is a once-in-a-generation type player who immediately starts and is one of the best freshmen in the country.
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Context...two days ago I didn't know who Groves was and i have not read most of the thread.
But, if a guy is averaging 34 points a game...thats incredibly tough to do. Score 20 one night...you need 49/50 to get back to 34 points a game. You gotta evaluate a guy like that.

He didn't get better in the spring. His body of work was his senior season. Taking Barry Wohlers word that Ben had no interest is not a good look for Ben. Texas Tech and Wisconsin think he can play. Niko thinks he can play. Ben was hired to get the local guys. Ignoring the Minnesota Gatorade Player of the Year seems short sighted, especially when you have 15 scholarships proposed and like to play 7 guys. There is no risk..only upside and positive local support..

I realize interest escalated when he de-committed. But Ben should have at least been interested all along and before he chose Yale because he had no other offers. Grades, character, the endorsement of Wohler and ability ...pretty big swing and a miss.
 
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dbmn said:
Maybe rehire CJB to recruit MN. Wasn't that his responsibility when Pitino was head coach and a primary reason for hiring him to replace Pitino. (sarcasm emphasized)
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Missed the sarcasm :)
 

60's Guy said:
Context...two days ago I didn't know who Groves was and i have not read most of the thread.
But, if a guy is averaging 34 points a game...thats incredibly tough to do. Score 20 one night...you need 49/50 to get back to 34 points a game. You gotta evaluate a guy like that.

He didn't get better in the spring. His body of work was his senior season. Taking Barry Wohlers word that Ben had no interest is not a good look for Ben. Texas Tech and Wisconsin think he can play. Niko thinks he can play. Ben was hired to get the local guys. Ignoring the Minnesota Gatorade Player of the Year seems short sighted, especially when you have 15 scholarships proposed and like to play 7 guys. There is no risk..only upside and positive local support..

I realize interest escalated when he de-committed. But Ben should have at least been interested all along and before he chose Yale because he had no other offers. Grades, character, the endorsement of Wohlerand ability ...pretty big swing and a miss.
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My main issue with Ben not offering is just the insane number of scholarships wasted every year. Even if you thought he was not a P5 player, our team is always littered with these types. This isn't specific to Groves, but why he didn't take flyers on additional HS players every year baffled me. If they aren't good - move on from them.

I think we are seeing PJ do this a bit more in the post-portal world. It's almost like a free look at a player who will almost certainly accept.
 




Bob_Loblaw said:
My main issue with Ben not offering is just the insane number of scholarships wasted every year. Even if you thought he was not a P5 player, our team is always littered with these types. This isn't specific to Groves, but why he didn't take flyers on additional HS players every year baffled me. If they aren't good - move on from them.

I think we are seeing PJ do this a bit more in the post-portal world. It's almost like a free look at a player who will almost certainly accept.
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PJ has been doing this the entire time he has been here. He has been in early on guys before they blew up like Bateman and Darius Taylor. Here are some other guys that didn't have any other P5 offers.

Jordan Howden
Cody Lindenberg
Mariano Sori-Marin
Thomas Rush
Chris Autman Bell
Maverick Baranowski

There are several others that only had 1 or a few P5 offers that were good to great players.

I remember when people argued on here that David Roddy wasn't a P5 player, that turned out alright for Niko. Kyan Evans best offer was CSU. Now he's at UNC. John Tonje wasn't even rated out of HS, and only had Omaha and Missouri Western State offers besides CSU. That worked out pretty well for Niko and eventually Gard.

You can't build an entire roster of under the radar recruits, which neither Niko or PJ does. But the good coaches know how to project players and find the right ones to develop within their system. Ben was incapable of doing that which is why he didn't even attempt to recruit Groves.
 


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