Next Up: Tim Miles

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MaturiGuy

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Tubby Smith has been an excellent basketball coach over the years going 191-73 in conference games before his arrival. He was an excellent hire. I thought it would work. Big name, past NCAA Champion, players in the NBA, preacher of solid defense.....still the same struggles. MN has no recent history of success, no great reputation for campus atmosphere, terrible climate for most. This is a difficult job. Haskins couldn't even finish above .500 in Big 10 play during his time. Monson is an excellent coach, he couldn't get his style to work outside of a season and struggled to keep talent in the state. Glen Mason, 32-48 in Big 10 games, said that as an assistant at Ohio State every call got returned....MN has no such luck. Tim Brewster knew he was in trouble when he couldn't even get kids to visit MN in his first season. We need an amazing recruiter that can sell MN....Tim Miles is the guy. He has brought excitement to Colorado State and his dream job has always been MN. Miles is the combo: excellent recruiter + 17 years as a HC. Make the move after this season.
 


I don't think that Tubby is going anywhere. If they fire him or let him walk without fulfilling what they promised him at the time of the hire no one is going to come here. I promise you that if they fire him, and still have a lame duck AD no one is going to come here. It will turn into the football hire all over again, and the U could never get lucky twice. I don't think anyone would come here without a practice facility UP AND RUNNING, a new long term AD in place, and a long term deal with guaranteed money. If all those pieces are not in place then it's going to be the Flip firing all over again, meaning it's just making a move for the sake of making a move.

Before anyone tries to say that a practice facility isn't a big deal I visited the Colorado program over the break and they couldn't stop talking about how great it was to a practice facility now. They said not having one makes it near impossible for players to get the right number of shots up a day, and this drastically changes your practice planning. Having just one court means you have at least three teams fighting for time, and no one gets the work in that they need too. In that visit the two things they talked about the most was the practice facility and the locker room. The locker room was VERY nice... and for as helpful in recruiting as they said the practice facility is, it was the worst one I had seen...

But in two-three years when Tubby leaves on his own, I would love a Tim Miles hire. There are a lot of coaches in Colorado who don't think he's a D-1 coach, I was told by more than one person that they feel his got a D-2 mindset. But I have only heard that out of people in Colorado.... I personally love the guy, and I have a friend who's brother played for him. His brother never got much playing time in his time under Miles but everyone in the family still loves him. Tim years later still remembers the family by first names.

On a side note, I spoke to a college coach in the area who thinks the U will make a push for Ben Jacobson when Tubby's time is done. He also thinks Tubby is going to be here for another three years then hang it up for good. I should state that he has no inside knowledge of this that's just his feel. Even if it just a feel, he's spent more time in the Barn than I have this year....
 

MaturiGuy said:
Tubby Smith has been an excellent basketball coach over the years going 191-73 in conference games before his arrival. He was an excellent hire. I thought it would work. Big name, past NCAA Champion, players in the NBA, preacher of solid defense.....still the same struggles. MN has no recent history of success, no great reputation for campus atmosphere, terrible climate for most. This is a difficult job. Haskins couldn't even finish above .500 in Big 10 play during his time. Monson is an excellent coach, he couldn't get his style to work outside of a season and struggled to keep talent in the state. Glen Mason, 32-48 in Big 10 games, said that as an assistant at Ohio State every call got returned....MN has no such luck. Tim Brewster knew he was in trouble when he couldn't even get kids to visit MN in his first season. We need an amazing recruiter that can sell MN....Tim Miles is the guy. He has brought excitement to Colorado State and his dream job has always been MN. Miles is the combo: excellent recruiter + 17 years as a HC. Make the move after this season.
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Completely agree with you on Tim Miles. I was hoping the U was his dream job.

Where I don't agree is that it's time to jump ship. No one wants to hear wait til next year, but wait til next year. Tubby will get the streak going again, and Tim Miles will be my first choice to continue it. I can't believe I'm the only one who can see how much talent Tubby is stockpiling. It just needs time to sort itself out and mature. I've been following the Gophers too long to think you can lose "The Beast" and Huge Mo and still make the dance.
 

Really?

What is he stockpiling? I think we have a couple decent young players but you say he is stockpiling talent that isnt performing on the court against a team like Iowa which is struggling to get back on its feet. The Gophers incoming talent over the last couple of seasons has been ok but it hasnt been great. If it was great we wouldnt have lost 9 straight Big Ten games. We lost one player to injury last year and we went into a tail spin. This year the team was a question because of all the youth and new faces and another star goes down and it appears the team will struggle to win five conference games.

Name more than one single player who improved their offensive game under Tubby Smith that he recruited? I am trying to think of a single Gopher over the last 3-4 years who developed into something more under Tubby and I cant think of a single guy.

Tubby Smith for all the excitement in his hiring and the hope he brought with his first two recruiting classes had me inspired for the future. It seems after some of the top recruits decided to leave for one reason or another Tubby has not been able to land the top recruits. I respect any kid who wants to be a Gopher but Tubby isnt bringing in the talent or isnt developing the talent he does bring in to perform at a top Big Ten level. His program should still be climbing at this point not falling backwards.
 


WolfontheProwl said:
What is he stockpiling? I think we have a couple decent young players but you say he is stockpiling talent that isnt performing on the court against a team like Iowa which is struggling to get back on its feet. The Gophers incoming talent over the last couple of seasons has been ok but it hasnt been great. If it was great we wouldnt have lost 9 straight Big Ten games. We lost one player to injury last year and we went into a tail spin. This year the team was a question because of all the youth and new faces and another star goes down and it appears the team will struggle to win five conference games.



Name more than one single player who improved their offensive game under Tubby Smith that he recruited? I am trying to think of a single Gopher over the last 3-4 years who developed into something more under Tubby and I cant think of a single guy.

Tubby Smith for all the excitement in his hiring and the hope he brought with his first two recruiting classes had me inspired for the future. It seems after some of the top recruits decided to leave for one reason or another Tubby has not been able to land the top recruits. I respect any kid who wants to be a Gopher but Tubby isnt bringing in the talent or isnt developing the talent he does bring in to perform at a top Big Ten level. His program should still be climbing at this point not falling backwards.
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the offense that tubby runs is the problem, not the players imo. when teams go zone on us we play a 2 man game with 3 guys just standing around. i dont feel austin hollins is being utilized properly and i think tubby has done a poor job with rodney. rodney shows he has the ability to be very good but for some reason he is just gun shy and i think its primarily due to the offense we run. in the first half yesterday we had nice flow, movement, off the ball screens, etc etc, then we did that ridiculous "line change" and lost our momentum and the game went to sh*t
 


Are you kidding, gaunt? We aren't winning and we have no end in sight because of the practice facility and the AD? You are kidding, right?

This is squarely on a stubborn, uninnovative coach.
 




highwayman said:
Are you kidding, gaunt? We aren't winning and we have no end in sight because of the practice facility and the AD? You are kidding, right?

This is squarely on a stubborn, uninnovative coach.
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Is that why gopher basketball has always been sooooooo good before tubby? Considering one coach (tubby) has almost 30% (2 out of the 7) of our NCAA tournament appearances in program history in only 4 years.

Tubby isn't perfect by any means and deserves some blame, but this isn't Duke folks.

That means, tubby has 30% of the tourney appearances while only coaching the team 6% of the years since the NCAA tournament started.

The hockey subs suck. The lack of aggressiveness (not sure of that's the coach or players tho) is disappointing, but the defense is pretty solid and apart from the last two seasons the team has been fairly successful. He needs to add tourney wins and some higher finishes in the big 10, but to act like we will be a perennial power like tOSU is not realistic right now. That doesn't happen in 5 years. It barely happened for Crean in 4 years and he took over a program with a LOT more history and prestige than the U.
 


Name more than one single player who improved their offensive game under Tubby Smith that he recruited? I am trying to think of a single Gopher over the last 3-4 years who developed into something more under Tubby and I cant think of a single guy.
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You didn't see Mbakwe in HS?
 

scher215 said:
Is that why gopher basketball has always been sooooooo good before tubby? Considering one coach (tubby) has almost 30% (2 out of the 7) of our NCAA tournament appearances in program history in only 4 years.

Tubby isn't perfect by any means and deserves some blame, but this isn't Duke folks.
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Are you saying we are supposed to accept mediocrity with this program for rest of our lives? You get the right coach, improve the facilities we have in place, as well as adding a practice facility, there is no reason we shouldn't be able to compete with the best teams in the country on a consistant basis. I won't accept the logic of us never being able to be on the "Duke" level.
 



MaturiGuy said:
Tubby Smith has been an excellent basketball coach over the years going 191-73 in conference games before his arrival. He was an excellent hire. I thought it would work. Big name, past NCAA Champion, players in the NBA, preacher of solid defense.....still the same struggles. MN has no recent history of success, no great reputation for campus atmosphere, terrible climate for most. This is a difficult job. Haskins couldn't even finish above .500 in Big 10 play during his time. Monson is an excellent coach, he couldn't get his style to work outside of a season and struggled to keep talent in the state. Glen Mason, 32-48 in Big 10 games, said that as an assistant at Ohio State every call got returned....MN has no such luck. Tim Brewster knew he was in trouble when he couldn't even get kids to visit MN in his first season. We need an amazing recruiter that can sell MN....Tim Miles is the guy. He has brought excitement to Colorado State and his dream job has always been MN. Miles is the combo: excellent recruiter + 17 years as a HC. Make the move after this season.
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So let me get this straight. The players couldn't knock down any shots in the second half and you think it is the coaches fault and he needs to be fired? Get lost. They had plenty of open shots last night and just had a poor night shooting. I understand you are frustrated and so am I. I was yelling at the tv last night. Ralph was pretty bad in the second half last night. He needs to be able to recognize the double team and either make an agressive move before it gets there or get rid of the ball instead of turning it over all the time. I have nothing against Tim Miles and thought he would be good here before we hired Tubby but I don't blame last nights loss on him. We need to be able to knock down open shots.
 

Eye of the Gopher said:
Are you saying we are supposed to accept mediocrity with this program for rest of our lives? You get the right coach, improve the facilities we have in place, as well as adding a practice facility, there is no reason we shouldn't be able to compete with the best teams in the country on a consistant basis. I won't accept the logic of us never being able to be on the "Duke" level.
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Not at all. But it took Duke a lot longer than 5 years to become Duke.
 

sunnyday2 said:
You didn't see Mbakwe in HS?
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saw him have 6 dunks in a high school game once-as a sophmore. Tubby didn't help him develop anything unless getting Trevor on the national team and in the elite camps that he went to was all Tubbys doing. Coaches get too much credit for developing players and too much blame if the players don't develop but most of a players development has to come from the players desire and effort. So a coaches job needs to be foster that or create an atmosphere where that happens.
 

scher215 said:
Is that why gopher basketball has always been sooooooo good before tubby? Considering one coach (tubby) has almost 30% (2 out of the 7) of our NCAA tournament appearances in program history in only 4 years.

Tubby isn't perfect by any means and deserves some blame, but this isn't Duke folks.
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Scher- Just remember that getting to the NCAAs is much easier than in the days of Dutcher and prior. Tubby has never finished better than 6th and his two NCAA appearances are "last four in" invites or close to it. Right now you finish in the top 6 in the Big Ten- you are pretty much in the NCAAs

Monson did that 3 times
Clem did it 10 times
Dutcher did it 6 times
Musselman did it 4 times

So that's 23 times 6th place or better in the 36 prior years to Tubby. Two sixth place finishes by Tubby don't cut it- even in this town where we are incredibly soft on expectations.

Yeah you can say Clem cheated but the point is that it can be done here- Clem was a great coach developing guys and would not have had to cheat to have a similar record.
 

He would have, and did cheat to keep the players on the team to allow them to develop.
 

From the Barn said:
He would have, and did cheat to keep the players on the team to allow them to develop.
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So let's say Clem loses a few guys academically because he doesn't cheat. Okay. I'll tell you this for certain, his coaching was still far better than this and we would have still have a good number of NCAA appearances- though perhaps not a final four.
 

WolfontheProwl said:
Name more than one single player who improved their offensive game under Tubby Smith that he recruited? I am trying to think of a single Gopher over the last 3-4 years who developed into something more under Tubby and I cant think of a single guy.
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Therein lies the major issue IMO. Name more than two guys who Tubby has recruited who has even played more than two seasons for him during his tenure here leading into this season? Ralph Sampson....the list stops there.

Some can act like he hasn't improved, but fact is, from his freshman year to now, he is a better player. Ralph didn't have the 15 ft. jumper and hook even in his repertoire when he got here, and though he's not what we hoped when he got here, he has no doubt expanded his offensive game.

Until Tubby can retain players for more than a year or two, he's not going to have a long list of guys who are going to show major improvements in their games. My beef with Tubby doesn't lie as much in his game day coaching as it does simply with his player retention, because honestly, more than any other element of his program, that has hurt like nothing else. There's no development because there's no continuity of players. Instead of having Royce White, Colt 45, Devoe Joseph, and Justin Cobbs, we have Welch, Mav, Ingram, and Oto.

Don't get me wrong, I respect those guys and their effort they put out there and what they are giving to the program, but that's four guys who are essentially underclassmen in the program (JUCOs Welch and Ingram in first year here), replacing four guys who would be upperclassmen with at least two years experience here at this point, and by most accounts are more talented players, that's just reality.

This is the absolute sole reason why we are struggling right now the way we are. All the other stuff, his hockey subs, his stubborness with upperclassmen players (which would pay dividends if that group I listed above were in the program), his lack of offensive acumen, none of that would be in play to near the level it is, if he just simply kept his players in the program.

This is my problem with Tubby, and it's not even necessarily all his fault, but as the coach, when a player leaves, it's his responsibility. Now if he was able to replace those guys with some studs who made us forget they were even here, then it wouldn't be a problem. But he hasn't, so it is.
 


highwayman said:
Are you kidding, gaunt? We aren't winning and we have no end in sight because of the practice facility and the AD? You are kidding, right?

This is squarely on a stubborn, uninnovative coach.
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Those comments had less to do with this team right now (but if you don't think it's having an impact you don't understand what recruiting, or player development is), and more to do with the idea of having to hire another coach. What would the point of firing Tubby if you couldn't get someone better? I know for a fact that the U will not get someone better until those things are in place. After watching Monson, Lickliter, and McDermott guys like Tim Miles, Ben Jacobson, Shaka Smart, Brad Stevens, Chris Mooney, and Chris Mack are not going to leave their schools for the U in it's present state. The type of coach you want has little to no interest in moving just to get fired in three years. It's not like these guys are getting paid in peanuts anymore, the different from what they are making and what the U would pay isn't going to coax any up and comer on it's own. If these guys are going to leave it has to be for a chance to win on a level they never could at Butler. That involves having top fight facilities, being able to pay big money so they can keep a staff long term, having a top tier AD to work for, and knowing that you can have access to a private plane for recruiting trips.

The fact is this is what it takes to be a top level program for more than a two year run. Everyone wants to be the best, but not understanding how to reach the top prevents many people from ever getting there. Don't kid yourself, I have spent a lot of time around college coaches trying to learn how get their jobs, I know no one that you would find acceptable it going to come here.
 

gaunt006 said:
Those comments had less to do with this team right now (but if you don't think it's having an impact you don't understand what recruiting, or player development is), and more to do with the idea of having to hire another coach. What would the point of firing Tubby if you couldn't get someone better? I know for a fact that the U will not get someone better until those things are in place. After watching Monson, Lickliter, and McDermott guys like Tim Miles, Ben Jacobson, Shaka Smart, Brad Stevens, Chris Mooney, and Chris Mack are not going to leave their schools for the U in it's present state. The type of coach you want has little to no interest in moving just to get fired in three years. It's not like these guys are getting paid in peanuts anymore, the different from what they are making and what the U would pay isn't going to coax any up and comer on it's own. If these guys are going to leave it has to be for a chance to win on a level they never could at Butler. That involves having top fight facilities, being able to pay big money so they can keep a staff long term, having a top tier AD to work for, and knowing that you can have access to a private plane for recruiting trips.

The fact is this is what it takes to be a top level program for more than a two year run. Everyone wants to be the best, but not understanding how to reach the top prevents many people from ever getting there. Don't kid yourself, I have spent a lot of time around college coaches trying to learn how get their jobs, I know no one that you would find acceptable it going to come here.
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Well said.
 




CentralGopher said:
So let me get this straight. The players couldn't knock down any shots in the second half and you think it is the coaches fault and he needs to be fired? Get lost. They had plenty of open shots last night and just had a poor night shooting. I understand you are frustrated and so am I. I was yelling at the tv last night. Ralph was pretty bad in the second half last night. He needs to be able to recognize the double team and either make an agressive move before it gets there or get rid of the ball instead of turning it over all the time. I have nothing against Tim Miles and thought he would be good here before we hired Tubby but I don't blame last nights loss on him. We need to be able to knock down open shots.
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Or recruit players that can make an open shot.

And who in in charge of recruiting players.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Marquise Hill? Yeah, he visited, but that wasn't until Brewster's 3rd season.
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Ah my bad. MarQueis Gray. Definitely should have looked that up first.
 

Can Tim Miles recruit? This program needs a top-notch recruiter and solid assistant coaches to take care of the Xs and Os. Look at the Ohio State and Texas basketball programs. They have high level recruiters as head coaches, not high level basketball intellects. Recruiting. Recruiting. Recruiting. Recruiting. Recruiting.
 


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