NCAA to take another look @ UNC academic fraud

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Oh, probably another problem for Cleveland State.
 

Cleveland St

Dr.Don said:
Oh, probably another problem for Cleveland State.
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The Cleveland St references are really tired. In recent history the NCAA with all it's faults has laid the hammer down on USC football/basketball, Penn St football, Ohio St football, UConn basketball et al.

I don't think they they would shy away from giving NC the same treatment.
 




Ope3 said:
In recent history the NCAA with all it's faults has laid the hammer down on USC football/basketball, Penn St football, Ohio St football, UConn basketball et al.
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Debatable.
 

Ope3 said:
The Cleveland St references are really tired. In recent history the NCAA with all it's faults has laid the hammer down on USC football/basketball, Penn St football, Ohio St football, UConn basketball et al.

I don't think they they would shy away from giving NC the same treatment.
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No they're not.
 

Ope3 said:
The Cleveland St references are really tired. In recent history the NCAA with all it's faults has laid the hammer down on USC football/basketball, Penn St football, Ohio St football, UConn basketball et al.

I don't think they they would shy away from giving NC the same treatment.
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I've kind of started wondering how effective such punishments are. I believe USC football recently had a recruiting class with an average star rating above 4, meaning that a 4 star recruit would have been below average in their class. Penn State football has a top 5 recruiting class going right now, Ohio State football brought in a top flight coach and was one game away from 25 straight wins and a national championship game bid this past season, and UCONN just won a basketball title the year after being ineligible for the post season.

Regardless of what the NCAA does, North Carolina basketball will still be North Carolina basketball, and after a down year or two (which is what, an NIT berth? An 11 or 12 seed in the NCAA?), you'd have to think they'd just keep on rolling.
 




penalties

Cayman said:
I've kind of started wondering how effective such punishments are. I believe USC football recently had a recruiting class with an average star rating above 4, meaning that a 4 star recruit would have been below average in their class. Penn State football has a top 5 recruiting class going right now, Ohio State football brought in a top flight coach and was one game away from 25 straight wins and a national championship game bid this past season, and UCONN just won a basketball title the year after being ineligible for the post season.

Regardless of what the NCAA does, North Carolina basketball will still be North Carolina basketball, and after a down year or two (which is what, an NIT berth? An 11 or 12 seed in the NCAA?), you'd have to think they'd just keep on rolling.
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It's all relative. USC was the top program in country, now they are 3rd best in the state of California. Penn St has lost out on 2 Bowl bids. Ohio State lost out on going to the 2012 BCS Title game & UConn on a 2013 Tourney bid. To me that means the penalties were more than just for show.
 

Ope3 said:
It's all relative. USC was the top program in country, now they are 3rd best in the state of California. Penn St has lost out on 2 Bowl bids. Ohio State lost out on going to the 2012 BCS Title game & UConn on a 2013 Tourney bid. To me that means the penalties were more than just for show.
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The question I have is "was it the cheating that got USC to be the top team in the country", or would they have been there anyway.

When Minnesota did the things that UNC is being accused of doing they made the final four, is it the cheating that has kept UNC at the top all these years, what's going to happen when they aren't allowed to do it anymore, how much harder will it be for them to recruit players and keep them eligible.
 

Cayman said:
I've kind of started wondering how effective such punishments are. I believe USC football recently had a recruiting class with an average star rating above 4, meaning that a 4 star recruit would have been below average in their class. Penn State football has a top 5 recruiting class going right now, Ohio State football brought in a top flight coach and was one game away from 25 straight wins and a national championship game bid this past season, and UCONN just won a basketball title the year after being ineligible for the post season.

Regardless of what the NCAA does, North Carolina basketball will still be North Carolina basketball, and after a down year or two (which is what, an NIT berth? An 11 or 12 seed in the NCAA?), you'd have to think they'd just keep on rolling.
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That's why equal punishments really aren't equal. The same punishment that would merely slow UNC down would kill another institution. It's like chemotherapy: it kills the cancer but largely spares the rest of the body.
 

Cayman said:
I've kind of started wondering how effective such punishments are. I believe USC football recently had a recruiting class with an average star rating above 4, meaning that a 4 star recruit would have been below average in their class. Penn State football has a top 5 recruiting class going right now, Ohio State football brought in a top flight coach and was one game away from 25 straight wins and a national championship game bid this past season, and UCONN just won a basketball title the year after being ineligible for the post season.

Regardless of what the NCAA does, North Carolina basketball will still be North Carolina basketball, and after a down year or two (which is what, an NIT berth? An 11 or 12 seed in the NCAA?), you'd have to think they'd just keep on rolling.
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A big program will spend more effort and more money to rectify the situation. There will be a temporary lull, followed by, often, significant success. Sometimes recovery is stimulated by a "stick it to the man" mentality, especially if the penalties are deemed too harsh given the transgressions.
 



Let's see if they get the same scholarship restrictions that the Gophers got, and the banners torn down too. I am staunchly on the side that our Final Four doesn't count because we cheated and it was invalidated. I'm going to have a lot of trouble maintaining that view if the NCAA doesn't give the same punishment for effectively the same transgression by another institution.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I'm going to have a lot of trouble maintaining that view if the NCAA doesn't give the same punishment for effectively the same transgression by another institution.
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If every transgression were punished fairly, half the NCAA record books would be wiped out. IMO the reasonable view is to accept that we got caught and swallow the punishment that buried our program for years afterward, but that doesn't mean accepting the fiction that it never happened or that we were meaningfully advantaged compared with what other high level programs were/are are doing.

Roy Williams would simply join Calhoun, Wooden, Calipari, and many other champions whose programs were known to cheat ... some got caught and punished, some got caught and the NCAA didn't take action, and some avoided getting caught.

Wooden and an Inconvenient Truth

By the way, the fine print to the Gangelgate scandal is that George Dohrmann had uncovered the same thing at UCLA while working for his prior paper (Times? I forget) but the school was able to put the kibosh on it. So he moves here and starts scoping around for the same thing, finds a couple willing whistleblowers, and then our administration happily stabs itself in the heart instead of fighting back like UNC.
 

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