Nancy Pelosi...

Section2

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If your point is that Pelosi should support a policy of relaxed zoning that allows for more construction of affordable, multi-family housing, then I totally agree with you
Maybe 2% of the problem, but sure.
 

justthefacts

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Maybe 2% of the problem, but sure.

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OldBob53

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People, verbosity does not equal intelligence. A little yappy terrier can be very vocal, non-stop, but it seems much ado about nothing. Another example: The Donald's thousands of tweets--lots of volume, little or no substance.

The title of this thread is Nancy Pelosi but the postings veer off, in messages as unclear as they are long.
 


Angry

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You could give them free housing and it wouldn’t solve the problem.
 


MplsGopher

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People, verbosity does not equal intelligence. A little yappy terrier can be very vocal, non-stop, but it seems much ado about nothing. Another example: The Donald's thousands of tweets--lots of volume, little or no substance.

The title of this thread is Nancy Pelosi but the postings veer off, in messages as unclear as they are long.
Welcome to GopherHole and internet message boards/comment sections/FB post comments/Tweet comments/etc etc etc.

Written messages, for whatever reason psychologically, free the authors from the other emotional/physical factors that would normally come into play on even voice calls, let alone in-person interaction, often leading people to be complete a__holes.
 

OldBob53

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Mpls, good points. Written messages also tend to convey either the clarity or the fuzziness of the author's mind because there's no intervening body language, voice inflections, etc. to muddy perception. Writing makes people reveal themselves in a clearer light.
 

KillerGopherFan

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Welcome to GopherHole and internet message boards/comment sections/FB post comments/Tweet comments/etc etc etc.

Written messages, for whatever reason psychologically, free the authors from the other emotional/physical factors that would normally come into play on even voice calls, let alone in-person interaction, often leading people to be complete a__holes.
Is someone forcing you to post or read the OTB? If it’s not what you want it to be, you might want to look elsewhere to express your opinions. I believe everyone would consider that a win-win.
 

Section2

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Mpls, good points. Written messages also tend to convey either the clarity or the fuzziness of the author's mind because there's no intervening body language, voice inflections, etc. to muddy perception. Writing makes people reveal themselves in a clearer light.
Is this directed at JTF?
 



Section2

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No good place to put this but fits with the general shift in global politics. Maybe Thatcher was just really smart and not a heartless ghoul that the progressive feminist left hates despite diversity.

 






ROCK

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Solemn because she she just presided over the end of the D House majority.
 

MplsGopher

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Solemn because she she just presided over the end of the D House majority.
Problem with that is that Reps have to actually have non-slimy, old, white guys to actually run against the D's in those districts.

But that's the vast majority of the party.
 

tikited

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You could give them free housing and it wouldn’t solve the problem.

Yep. They need mental health help, drug abuse help, and jobs. Housing won't do squat for the previously mentioned issues.
 

MplsGopher

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Yep. They need mental health help, drug abuse help, and jobs. Housing won't do squat for the previously mentioned issues.
Right! They need to bootstrap themselves up from sleeping on the ground, and seek mental health help, drug abuse help, and of course get a job!

Having their fundamental, basic, human-rights needs met, first, probably won't enable them to do any of those things. Who needs an actual bed, or a shower, or clean clothes, so you don't stink? Who needs that?

Nor can we make it a requirement of staying in the shelter, that they seek those things. Nope, can't do that.
 

tikited

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Right! They need to bootstrap themselves up from sleeping on the ground, and seek mental health help, drug abuse help, and of course get a job!

Having their fundamental, basic, human-rights needs met, first, probably won't enable them to do any of those things. Who needs an actual bed, or a shower, or clean clothes, so you don't stink? Who needs that?

Nor can we make it a requirement of staying in the shelter, that they seek those things. Nope, can't do that.
If you think before you type...

Issues need to be handled before housing. Housing won't help them get off meth. Housing won't make the demons go away.

I am in favor of treatment provided before we just offer free housing. That is a incredibly stupid idea that will fail miserably.
 

MplsGopher

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Housing won't help them get off meth. Housing won't make the demons go away.
They can't get off meth or get rid of demons, if their fundamental, basic, human-rights needs aren't being taken care of.

It's not at all a chicken-egg. It's simple humanity and psychology.

Incredible stupid if you can't realize this.


Am I guaranteeing that people won't try to take advantage of it, and try to get a "free ride" out of it? No, of course not. I support requirements, proving that you're seeking help, trying to get better, as a requirement of staying in the housing.

It's not a hand-out. It's trying to help these people have something to live for.

I think if you were capable of actually viewing these people as humans, like your neice or cousin or something like that, rather than just scum, maybe you could comprehend this.
 

Section2

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If you think before you type...

Issues need to be handled before housing. Housing won't help them get off meth. Housing won't make the demons go away.

I am in favor of treatment provided before we just offer free housing. That is a incredibly stupid idea that will fail miserably.
I’m sure there are some people who in the short term find themselves homeless for one reason or another. But people who are long term homeless can’t be solved by giving them things, even treatment. You can lead a horse to water...
 

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I’m sure there are some people who in the short term find themselves homeless for one reason or another. But people who are long term homeless can’t be solved by giving them things, even treatment. You can lead a horse to water...

We should try though.
 

tikited

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They can't get off meth or get rid of demons, if their fundamental, basic, human-rights needs aren't being taken care of.

It's not at all a chicken-egg. It's simple humanity and psychology.

Incredible stupid if you can't realize this.


Am I guaranteeing that people won't try to take advantage of it, and try to get a "free ride" out of it? No, of course not. I support requirements, proving that you're seeking help, trying to get better, as a requirement of staying in the housing.

It's not a hand-out. It's trying to help these people have something to live for.

I think if you were capable of actually viewing these people as humans, like your neice or cousin or something like that, rather than just scum, maybe you could comprehend this.

You are going waaaay too far with your assumptions. Free housing gives them shelter (and it is a hand out-everyone else has to pay for housing) but doesn't help with the other issues that have led them to be homeless. They need help with those first. We should have something set-up for that before we give them a place to call home forever.
 

MplsGopher

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You are going waaaay too far with your assumptions. Free housing gives them shelter (and it is a hand out-everyone else has to pay for housing) but doesn't help with the other issues that have led them to be homeless. They need help with those first. We should have something set-up for that before we give them a place to call home forever.
Sorry but you are simply wrong. You have it backwards.

You can't get help for additions and mental illness, if you feel like you have nothing to live for.

They need help with fundamentals, first, then try to tackle those things which led to their situation.



Where are you getting "forever"?? No one is or should be talking about giving someone a condo -- let alone land with a house on it -- mortgage-free, from nothing.
 

Section2

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Right! They need to bootstrap themselves up from sleeping on the ground, and seek mental health help, drug abuse help, and of course get a job!

Having their fundamental, basic, human-rights needs met, first, probably won't enable them to do any of those things. Who needs an actual bed, or a shower, or clean clothes, so you don't stink? Who needs that?

Nor can we make it a requirement of staying in the shelter, that they seek those things. Nope, can't do that.
Fundamental basic human rights are life, liberty, property. Housing is not a basic human right. Necessities aren’t human rights.
San Francisco spends a ton of money on the homeless problem and none of it works. So maybe your playbook is wrong.
 


tikited

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Sorry but you are simply wrong. You have it backwards.

You can't get help for additions and mental illness, if you feel like you have nothing to live for.

They need help with fundamentals, first, then try to tackle those things which led to their situation.



Where are you getting "forever"?? No one is or should be talking about giving someone a condo -- let alone land with a house on it -- mortgage-free, from nothing.
I can't disagree more. If we do this for real (nothing has worked before because it has been band aid type thinking) you need to have facilities that actually work as temporary shelter (roof over head) and medical/mental health help. You seem to want to give them a roof over their heads and they will magically want to seek help.
 


MplsGopher

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You seem to want to give them a roof over their heads and they will magically want to seek help.
You seem to want to force someone with nothing to live for, who wears the same clothes for months, hasn't showered, and sleeps on the ground, to suddenly decide to stop doing that from nothing.

You could not be more out of touch with reality.

People who actually work with the homeless agree with me. I trust them over you.
 

Section2

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I can't disagree more. If we do this for real (nothing has worked before because it has been band aid type thinking) you need to have facilities that actually work as temporary shelter (roof over head) and medical/mental health help. You seem to want to give them a roof over their heads and they will magically want to seek help.
Giving them treatment will also not magically make them WANT help. You can't give people things to change their lot/situation. It needs to come from within. I obviously think homelessness sounds awful, for all the reasons MPLS described. But thinking that no one would WANT to be homeless is very different than thinking no one would fail to do whatever it took to escape it. And unfortunately that's wrong.
 

tikited

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You seem to want to force someone with nothing to live for, who wears the same clothes for months, hasn't showered, and sleeps on the ground, to suddenly decide to stop doing that from nothing.

You could not be more out of touch with reality.

People who actually work with the homeless agree with me. I trust them over you.
I never once wrote anything you just did. I want them to have shelter while getting help. You wrote they should get free housing.
 




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