More details emerge in UNC academic fraud case; McCants says Ol' Roy knew

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BleedGopher

BleedGopher

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It really is amazing how we were given the hammer (and rightfully so) and UNC is getting off easy. Per ESPN:

Rashad McCants, the second-leading scorer on the North Carolina basketball team that won the 2004-05 national title, told ESPN's "Outside the Lines" that tutors wrote his term papers, he rarely went to class for about half his time at UNC, and he remained able to play largely because he took bogus classes designed to keep athletes academically eligible.

McCants told "Outside the Lines" that he could have been academically ineligible to play during the championship season had he not been provided the assistance. Further, he said head basketball coach Roy Williams knew about the "paper-class" system at UNC. The so-called paper classes didn't require students to go to class; rather, students were required to submit only one term paper to receive a grade.

McCants also told "Outside the Lines" that he even made the Dean's List in Spring 2005 despite not attending any of his four classes for which he received straight-A grades.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...ll-star-rashad-mccants-says-took-sham-classes

Go Gophers!!
 

Boy did we get the hammer. The NCAA continues to be a bad joke. How can they look themselves in the mirror?
 

Anything materially different, other than them being UNC and us being the Goophers?
 


BarnBoy said:
Anything materially different, other than them being UNC and us being the Goophers?
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If my understanding is correct, in our case the athletic department was forging papers for the students. At UNC, the university itself has been enrolling athletes in fraudulent classes and giving them A's. IMO that's much worse than what happened here.

Not saying we didn't deserve our sanctions - we did - but it is indeed a joke if UNC receives anything less than what we got.
 


Golden_Sloth said:
If my understanding is correct, in our case the athletic department was forging papers for the students. At UNC, the university itself has been enrolling athletes in fraudulent classes and giving them A's. IMO that's much worse than what happened here.

Not saying we didn't deserve our sanctions - we did - but it is indeed a joke if UNC receives anything less than what we got.
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Didn't UNC already do an investigation? Or do we think these recent allegations/statements will re-open the door? Man, my faith in humanity would be somewhat restored if they took a banner down at UNC. A guy can dream.
 

BarnBoy said:
Didn't UNC already do an investigation? Or do we think these recent allegations/statements will re-open the door? Man, my faith in humanity would be somewhat restored if they took a banner down at UNC. A guy can dream.
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I'm actually not sure, but I don't see how the NCAA can just look the other way on this.
 

It's fun to poke fun at another school's misfortune, but it would be stupid to take away their title. I don't see a great basketball advantage gained over the schools with one and done players who don't have to even fake going to school in their final spring semester. McCants hurt himself by taking slacker classes and not graduating. He is hardly alone among athletes and non-athletes at universities today.
 

But Mccants says there was more including others writing his papers. Which sounds very familiar....
 



BarnBoy said:
Anything materially different, other than them being UNC and us being the Gophers?
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I think theirs was way, way worse. But I think timing matters with these things. Like the SI article about Oklahoma State football, the UNC thing is now way in the past. More details keep emerging, but it seems like the further in the past the scandal, the less likely anything will be done about it. Extreme example is the widespread knowledge now that Wooden's dynasty teams were assembled with booster-paid players, but that hardly gets talked about when UCLA's dynasty is mentioned in the media. In our case the PP broke the story not long after Gangelhoff was shown the door (which, ironically, is a main reason the story ever came to light).

Also, the university administration matters ... clearly UNC's administration is doing everything in its power to protect the basketball program (just like every SEC school would protect their football program). Our administration didn't, and probably still wouldn't. Just a cultural difference, unfortunately.
 

This is much worse than what happened at the U in the 90's. However, they are UNC, and they are not a mid-tier Big Ten team. Therefore, expect little to happen. Big programs in other conferences are essentially untouchable.

Expect, behind the doors, that people related to UNC are throwing around some big big big money to keep this story on the down-low.
 

AO54 said:
but it would be stupid to take away their titleQUOTE]

So your not one of the guys on here that says the final four never happened because we cheated then, right?
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cncmin said:
However, they are UNC, and they are not a mid-tier Big Ten teamQUOTE]

We wern't a min-tier big ten team at the time, we were on our way and probably would have remained a top 3 programs in the league if it didn't take place or we didn't get caught.
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HOOP DREAMS said:
cncmin said:
However, they are UNC, and they are not a mid-tier Big Ten teamQUOTE]

We wern't a min-tier big ten team at the time, we were on our way and probably would have remained a top 3 programs in the league if it didn't take place or we didn't get caught.
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??? In 1999 the Gophers were a #8 seed, and definitely not a top-3 "league" team; and while they were a #1 seed Final Four team in 1997, Clem never finished higher than 4th in the Big Ten in any other season, to my knowledge.

Further, while the Gophers were certainly not the first, the only, nor the worst academic cheater in D-1 sports - just the only to be caught AND prosecuted with large penalties - seems pretty clear that the academic cheating helps to enable better on-court success in several different ways, including keeping kids eligible who perhaps, academically, wouldn't otherwise qualify to be at a 4-year university.
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I know it'd be really petty, but any chance we could sue the NCAA into giving UNC the same punishment they gave the gophers?
 


AO54 said:
It's fun to poke fun at another school's misfortune, but it would be stupid to take away their title. I don't see a great basketball advantage gained over the schools with one and done players who don't have to even fake going to school in their final spring semester. McCants hurt himself by taking slacker classes and not graduating. He is hardly alone among athletes and non-athletes at universities today.
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Roy, is that you?

Ok, let's get our FF banner back, cool?
 

I remember when the scandal broke here. Clem seemed rather bewildered and his response was along the lines of of course we need to do this to keep kids eligible, duh. Now that response makes more sense to me.
 

The NCAA is a joke. They are in it for the money. They could care less about the students. They use weaker big conferences schools as examples while letting the big time schools who do the same or worse to carry on so the NCAA can cash a check by having the premier schools on television.

Burn down the NCAA. Enough is enough. Also, torch UNC as one final act.
 

What did Roy or UNC do to McCants to have him come out like this?
 

SelectionSunday said:
Rashad McCants, let me introduce you to Russ Archambault.
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I get the reference ss.

However, this is yet another example where the playing field is not level. At all.

I know you disagree, it is just hard to compete against this type of thing, imo.
 

If UNC doesn't get the book thrown at them by the NCAA in the same way that the U of M did back in the day it will be a bunch of complete and total B.S. This sounds very similar and UNC should have to deal with the same ramifications. Btw, is anyone keeping an eye on Cleveland State during all of this?! ;)
 

BarnBurner said:
I get the reference ss.

However, this is yet another example where the playing field is not level. At all.

I know you disagree, it is just hard to compete against this type of thing, imo.
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BB, if UNC goes unscathed after all this (read: no postseason sanctions + vacated banners/championships, the penalty that hits home the most), my line of thinking will tilt your way some! With the current state of the NCAA -- under heavy fire everywhere -- they're probably not looking for another PR hit. It'll be interesting to see how they handle it.
 

The NCAA will sanction UNC but I doubt they will strip them of the title. I would be impressed if they did.

Already brought up.....but why would McCants come out with this info?
 

Ax to grind

stocker08 said:
Already brought up.....but why would McCants come out with this info?
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Probably something similar to Russ Archambault. ... somewhere along the line there became an ax to grind. Now's his chance to get back at UNC or Williams for whatever perceived misdeed they did to him. I don't believe for a second he's doing this for the "betterment" of everyone in the future.
 

supadupafly said:
If UNC doesn't get the book thrown at them by the NCAA in the same way that the U of M did back in the day it will be a bunch of complete and total B.S. This sounds very similar and UNC should have to deal with the same ramifications. Btw, is anyone keeping an eye on Cleveland State during all of this?! ;)
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One main difference is that MN cooperated, rolled out the red carpet for the investigation.

UNC wont do it. Guaranteed.

Oh, they will say all the right things.
 

SelectionSunday said:
BB, if UNC goes unscathed after all this (read: no postseason sanctions + vacated banners/championships, the penalty that hits home the most), my line of thinking will tilt your way some! With the current state of the NCAA -- under heavy fire everywhere -- they're probably not looking for another PR hit. It'll be interesting to see how they handle it.
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Yes, it will.

The UNC situation appears every bit as egregious as MN. Perhaps even more.
 

BarnBurner said:
I get the reference ss.

However, this is yet another example where the playing field is not level. At all.

I know you disagree, it is just hard to compete against this type of thing, imo.
Click to expand...

And, to me, that's exactly what this is all about - whether every school is held to the same rules and, by extension, allowed to compete on an equal footing. It's ultimately a matter of competition. If it wasn't about competition we might as well watch the Globetrotters play the Generals every night.
 

Just to be devil's advocate, wasn't the crux of the Gophers problem that Clem had knowledge, organized, and encouraged the cheating while at the same time, the University was seen as not providing appropriate, minimum oversight?

I seem to remember Clem has some sort of oversight to the academic counseling program that Ganglehoff worked at and this was seen as different than other universities. In effect, the U was guilty of creating a system set up for cheating. It was a perfect storm.

Clem's actions were worse than whether Roy knew about the cheating. To be the same, it needs to be proven that Roy approved and organized the cheating. I suspect he was smart enough to avoid anything that will implicate him.
 

Winnipegopher said:
Just to be devil's advocate, wasn't the crux of the Gophers problem that Clem had knowledge, organized, and encouraged the cheating while at the same time, the University was seen as not providing appropriate, minimum oversight?

I seem to remember Clem has some sort of oversight to the academic counseling program that Ganglehoff worked at and this was seen as different than other universities. In effect, the U was guilty of creating a system set up for cheating. It was a perfect storm.

Clem's actions were worse than whether Roy knew about the cheating. To be the same, it needs to be proven that Roy approved and organized the cheating. I suspect he was smart enough to avoid anything that will implicate him.
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As an individual Roy may not be as guilty as Clem, as an institution North Carolina is just as guilty and probably more than the U. They should not get away with a wrist slap.

It also seems to me that if an individual or group of people wrote papers for athletes you could look at the papers and discern a certain style in the writing, everything is submitted electronically these days I would think, there should be a footprint/backup etc. of these papers for the last ten years.
 

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