MN, Michigan, Iowa and Nebraska

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Rickman55

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are supposedly going to be in the same division. I was listening to KSTP and Reusse, but went into an underground parking ramp and got crappy reception so didn't get the whole thing. Ressue said this is unconfirmed, but that Wisconsin wouldn't be in our division and didn't have the rest of the alignment. Take it for what it's worth.
 

Everyone seems to have "inside information". None of it seems all that reliable. It appears that there is a lot of arguing going on. The question is what plan, if any, will have enough votes to be approved?
 

RodentRampage said:
Everyone seems to have "inside information". None of it seems all that reliable. It appears that there is a lot of arguing going on. The question is what plan, if any, will have enough votes to be approved?
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How many votes are required for approval?
 

A cross over game every year with Wisconsin would be totally, totally unacceptable to me. Totally. Totally. We are going to have to play enough hard games in the Big Ten every year without having to play a quality program like Wisconsin every year while some of the people we would have to finish ahead of would get a mix of cross over games so they could have good years as well as bad years. We would get four of the top six teams in the league every year. Too hard, every year, just to get to the title game.
 

Who's be the other 2?

Michigan State & Illinois?

MN-IA-NE-MI-MSU-IL
WI-PUR-PSU-OSU-IN-NW
 


It's the Big Ten, it isn't supposed to be easy. The WAC has openings if the goal to obtain the easiest schedule.
 

Sounds good?

Is it just me, or does this alignment actually work out pretty well for the Gophers and our rivalries? It protects the Iowa and Michigan trophy games and would more than likely make the Wisconsin game our protected yearly cross-divisional game.

Isn't this what we wanted? I for one would be pleased with this arrangement, if true.
 

No one said they wanted it to be easy. But it should not be unreasonably difficult for some teams in the conference. Why not give the Gophers opponent one free point per game? That would be an unreasonable disadvantage. As it is now, some years are harder than others, but it averages out. A gerrymandered schedule with protected rivalries won't even out.
 

Would you rather NOT have wisconsin on the schedule?
 



ruralgopher said:
It's the Big Ten, it isn't supposed to be easy. The WAC has openings if the goal to obtain the easiest schedule.
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That's not the point, and you know it.

It's not about difficulty of schedule, it's about equity of schedule. Assuming it happens this way, what is fair about stacking the deck in OSU's favor so they have an easy path to the championship game every year? Is it fair that they get to play Indiana, Northwestern, and Purdue every single year, while we have to play Nebraska, Iowa, and (assuming they're ever good again) Michigan every year?

That's the great thing about the geographic alignment - you're not playing any favorites, and you're not trying to contrive some unattainable "competitive balance." Teams play the teams closest to them every year (as geographic location on a map will never change, though competitiveness, interest, money, etc. all will), and sometimes you'll get the "marquee" matchups, sometimes you won't. But it will always be fair and equitable. That's why the geographic alignment is the only acceptable one - anything else is contrived and therefore inferior.
 

snackeru said:
Is it just me, or does this alignment actually work out pretty well for the Gophers and our rivalries? It protects the Iowa and Michigan trophy games and would more than likely make the Wisconsin game our protected yearly cross-divisional game.

Isn't this what we wanted? I for one would be pleased with this arrangement, if true.
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I somewhat agree. My overall desire is for it to be West-East, but if it doesn't go that route, this is the best alternative I've seen:
-I care more about playing Michigan over Ohio State. This provides that the jug is played every season
-we can re-start our history with Nebraska, who we have played more than any of the other Big Ten schools have
-protects the Iowa game

As long as Wisconsin is our protected cross-over game, I have no anger about this arrangement if it won't go East-West. I'm guessing MSU will be with us to keep their rivalry with Michigan in tact. As far as Illinois or Northwestern being the 6th, doesn't make that much difference.
 

Tradition? Rivalries? Worth considering to be sure but, Minnesota hasn't won a Big Ten Title since 1967. They haven't qualified for a New Years Bowl for the same amount of years. They haven't been within "spitting distance" off 55,000 per game since 1987. They have been taking more money out of the Big Ten then putting in for years and they probably aren't much of a TV draw either.

Minnesota, no matter who the AD is, will much like Indiana, have little or no say in how the Divisions turn out.

And there's nothing any of us can do about it though honestly, it doesn't sound to bad to me either.
 

What kind of Gopher football team would be good enough to beat Nebraska, Michigan, Iowa and Wisconsin in the same year? Now we move on to the title game against OSU or PSU. There would never be an easier schedule than that. Additionally, we would get to play either PSU or OSU in a normal cross over game in some years. Are the younger fans aware of the fact that though we have won six National Championships in football, we have beaten Ohio State and Michigan in the same year ONCE in the long history of our program? I know bravado is all the rage amongst young males, but are you being realistic here? This proposed schedule means we will have to knock a minimum of five Top 25 teams off in conference on the "easy" years and six or seven off in the hard years just to win the conference.
 



dpodoll68 said:
That's not the point, and you know it.

It's not about difficulty of schedule, it's about equity of schedule. Assuming it happens this way, what is fair about stacking the deck in OSU's favor so they have an easy path to the championship game every year? Is it fair that they get to play Indiana, Northwestern, and Purdue every single year, while we have to play Nebraska, Iowa, and (assuming they're ever good again) Michigan every year?

That's the great thing about the geographic alignment - you're not playing any favorites, and you're not trying to contrive some unattainable "competitive balance." Teams play the teams closest to them every year (as geographic location on a map will never change, though competitiveness, interest, money, etc. all will), and sometimes you'll get the "marquee" matchups, sometimes you won't. But it will always be fair and equitable. That's why the geographic alignment is the only acceptable one - anything else is contrived and therefore inferior.
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OSU still has to go through Penn State & Wisconsin...this is better than the alternative that we've hearing about Penn State going west and either NW or IL going east, which would mean OSU had to go through Michigan & perhaps Northwester, Michigan State, or Purdue?

I agree that East-West is how it should be done....I guess I'm past the point of wishing for that & accepting the fact that it probably won't be that.
 

There are only 4 teams listed. If the other 2 are IN and IL, we get two of the easiest teams every year too. IA may or may not be good forever, same with NE, MI, OSU, etc. Programs ebb and flow, the LBJ, Axe and Floyd should NOT ebb and flow.

(and yes, I know we don't currently play MI every year.)
 

Doesn't the U have an equal say with the other schools? It seems like a big game of chicken. People have claimed that the western schools will accept the gerrymandering to asure that their rivalry games get protected. But that assumes that a bad deal will be foisted upon them if they don't agree to it. If they stick to their guns, nothing can be forced. Just depends on who blinks first.
 

Gopherhurrin said:
What kind of Gopher football team would be good enough to beat Nebraska, Michigan, Iowa and Wisconsin in the same year? Now we move on to the title game against OSU or PSU. There would never be an easier schedule than that. Additionally, we would get to play either PSU or OSU in a normal cross over game in some years. Are the younger fans aware of the fact that though we have won six National Championships in football, we have beaten Ohio State and Michigan in the same year ONCE in the long history of our program? I know bravado is all the rage amongst young males, but are you being realistic here? This proposed schedule means we will have to knock a minimum of five Top 25 teams off in conference on the "easy" years and six or seven off in the hard years just to win the conference.
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Even in East-West, the Gophers would have to beat Nebraska, Iowa & Wisconsin. If they were that good that particular season, I guess I'd be willing to take my chances with either OSU/PSU/MI......

What would be your solution that would be considered the most fair?
 

MrGopher said:
Would you rather NOT have wisconsin on the schedule?
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And that is exactly what will be put to us by the Big Ten.:mad: Wisconsin and Iowa should be in our division. Our cross over games should be random and have the reasonable advantage or having soft years and hard years. This plan will only give us an endless streak of very hard years mixed with impossible years when we randomly draw Penn State and/or Ohio State.
 

If it is indeed those four, and I would assume MSU and NW, I can live with that. I hate the idea of a crossover game. It goes against everything "competitive." But in this scenario, Wisconsin would be that game. In essence, everything works out. I think it's a stupid route to go about it, but I would live with it without throwing a fit.

MSU lmost has to be in that division, and I think NW would be the other. Doesn't Illinois have a couple rivalries with OSU and Indiana or Purdue?

So crossovers:

UM-UW
Mich-OSU
Neb-PSU
Iowa-Illinois
MSU-Indiana
NW-Purdue

I don't know...
 

Under this plan would Michigan fans cry about how unfair it is to play OSU every year????
 

Gopherhurrin said:
Are the younger fans aware of the fact that though we have won six National Championships in football, we have beaten Ohio State and Michigan in the same year ONCE in the long history of our program?
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We didn't play Ohio State annually for most of our glory years. Also, it's just a fact that OSU MICH PSU and NEB are getting split in 2s. It's also probably a lock that WI and IA are getting split up. That means that we are playing at least 4 of these teams each and every year. So just get used to that idea. It's for sure happening.
 

FireDaveLee said:
Even in East-West, the Gophers would have to beat Nebraska, Iowa & Wisconsin. If they were that good that particular season, I guess I'd be willing to take my chances with either OSU/PSU/MI......

What would be your solution that would be considered the most fair?
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The East-West split with no protected cross-divisional games is clearly the most fair. It divides the top 6 teams evenly between the two divisions.
 

So here is our, for example, 2019 schedule with an eight game Big Ten schedule:

Nebraska
Illinois
Iowa
Michigan
random/OSU, PSU, NU, Purdue, Indiana
Michigan State
random/OSU, PSU, NU, Purdue, Indiana
Wisconsin

How many years do you think we are going to win six of those eight games? I'll answer that for myself. When we get either PSU or OSU as a random cross over game, we will win six out of eight of those games once a century.
 

RodentRampage said:
The East-West split with no protected cross-divisional games is clearly the most fair. It divides the top 6 teams evenly between the two divisions.
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I was asking Gopherhurrin, since he was upset about it......

I've stated that East-West is the best option.....
 

RodentRampage said:
Doesn't the U have an equal say with the other schools? It seems like a big game of chicken. People have claimed that the western schools will accept the gerrymandering to asure that their rivalry games get protected. But that assumes that a bad deal will be foisted upon them if they don't agree to it. If they stick to their guns, nothing can be forced. Just depends on who blinks first.
Click to expand...

No and yes.

No, they don't have a say equal to Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State according to everything that has been written. Even Iowa and particularly Wisconsin don't have that say something that Alvarez has been very candid about.

Yes, in that as you say, if the Western schools stuck together their votes could kill any plan. It just sounds like, from what has been written, hardly anybody is willing to do that.

Me, I have no idea if the Gophers will pull out of their mediocrity under Brewster or anybody else. What I do think is that Michigan's Football team, like their basketball team before them, is on the way to a big downswing. It's also not a sure thing that Nebraska's resurgence is long-lived or not, so no, this version doesn't upset me to badly.
 

Regardless, bring it on. Look at our schedule this year - replace Ohio State with Nebraska and to me, it seems practically a wash.

Four years ago, who'd have thought MI would be where they are right now? We lost 12-0 to Iowa last year, at Iowa. We were only down 7-0 at halftime last year at OSU. In both cases, we got nothing from our offense.

Given the style of play in the Big Ten, anything can happen, and I personally think we are getting closer to these other schools with regards to the quality of athletes we have coming up (we're not going to be starting 5'8 safeties and 5'7 corners for much longer, I don't think).

Wasn't it just two years ago (maybe three) that Illinois was in the Rose Bowl?
 

They each get an equal vote, don't they? They aren't giving OSU extra votes. It all comes down to whether or not the western schools have the balls not to cave.
 

Gopherhurrin said:
So here is our, for example, 2019 schedule with an eight game Big Ten schedule:

Nebraska
Illinois
Iowa
Michigan
random/OSU, PSU, NU, Purdue, Indiana
Michigan State
random/OSU, PSU, NU, Purdue, Indiana
Wisconsin

How many years do you think we are going to win six of those eight games? I'll answer that for myself. When we get either PSU or OSU as a random cross over game, we will win six out of eight of those games once a century.
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Which is EXACTLY the number of times that we've won 6 games in the Big Ten since 1968!! Though by then we'll have 9 chances to do it.

So Wren, your point is we shouldn't be hooked to the Badgers if this division proposal actually comes to be?
 

This reminds me of two other big time Gopher football debates I have seen in my Gopher football history and I therefore know how this one is going to turn out. Bravado is going to win out over brains once again. We are once again going to bravely "march off to the wonderful, new HumphreyDome" and enter the brave new plastic world of modern football under the Dome. The new Big Ten will be hard enough without us accepting an unbalanced, extra hard schedule every year when compared to some of our peers like NU, Pudue, Indiana, etc. Playing four of the six top programs every year is too hard. If you do not see that, than you are "braver" than I am.
 

Gopherhurrin said:
This reminds me of two other big time Gopher football debates I have seen in my Gopher football history and I therefore know how this one is going to turn out. Bravado is going to win out over brains once again. We are once again going to bravely "march off to the wonderful, new HumphreyDome" and enter the brave new plastic world of modern football under the Dome. The new Big Ten will be hard enough without us accepting an unbalanced, extra hard schedule every year when compared to some of our peers like NU, Pudue, Indiana, etc. Playing four of the six top programs every year is too hard. If you do not see that, than you are "braver" than I am.
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I ask you, what is your solution? And one that would be accepted?

Being in a division with Illinois-Northwestern-Purdue-Indiana isn't going to happen.
 

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