MN Daily: Paying student-athletes

[mnsportsgeek]

I usually stay far away from the daily, but today this article caught my eye. To my surprise, it was actually a pretty decent article.

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The Big Ten recently announced the addition of the University of Maryland and Rutgers University, bringing the conference to 14 members. In addition to bringing inroads into the East Coast TV markets and the all important revenue that will result, the two research institutions also joined the Committee on Institutional Cooperation with considerably less fanfare. The CIC consists of the Big Ten institutions, plus the University of Chicago, which was a founding member of the Big Ten until it withdrew from the conference in 1946 in order to prioritize academics over athletics. The decision would be unthinkable today.

Prior to the addition of Maryland and Rutgers, the Big Ten earned nearly half a billion dollars from football revenue alone and profits somewhere around half of that. Yes, some of this goes to support other sports and supports Title IX-mandated women’s sports. The new TV deals stemming from the addition of Maryland and Rutgers are predicted to add some additional $200 million annually. Coaches make big bucks — Iowa’s football coach Kirk Ferentz is the highest-paid employee of the state of Iowa, commanding some $3.8 million annually. Minnesota’s own Jerry Kill makes at least $1.2 million a year. Announcers and TV networks profit. Vendors profit. Contractors are paid for the new facilities. All in all, college athletics is a high-dollar affair.

But where do the student-athletes fall in this scheme? Generously, a full-ride scholarship is in the ballpark (pun intended) of $50,000, covering tuition, room and board, books and health care. This figure omits the extra “gifts” players receive upon earning bowl berths. Of course, athletes are also prohibited from receiving fringe benefits from boosters, which at big-name schools can include big-ticket items like cars or money from selling jerseys. Violations have led to high-profile sanctions upon the biggest programs. Yes, such practices may not be completely ethical, but given the short end of the stick athletes get in the NCAA, it is hard to blame them for taking outside boosters up on their offers. Many students come from humble backgrounds and cannot even afford to fly family members to bowl or tournament games.

Recently, the NCAA decided to allow colleges to provide student-athletes with a pittance of an extra $2,000 stipend but quickly suspended the measure after backlash from institutions unwilling to commit the extra $1 million for athletes to pay for their families to travel to see them play. Student-athletes are also prohibited from earning more than that $2,000 working a part-time job. While, yes, receiving pay without working would be unethical, such a prohibition seems to only incentivize players to take advantage of those other offers given by boosters outside the NCAA’s ability to effectively monitor and control. Simply paying athletes a reasonable compensation for the services they provide in generating millions of dollars in profits for their university, which also fail to include the alumni donations brought in by exposure of the athletics programs that benefit the general student population, seems reasonable.

As the super-conferences align and the ever-increasing TV revenue deals continue to provide college athletics with expanded revenues, the time has come to abandon the antiquated and unfair idealism of clinging to amateurism. These institutions owe a lot to their athletes and should compensate them as such.

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http://www.mndaily.com/2012/12/06/paying-student-athletes

 

[e.bigelow]

I am pretty much all for paying athletes. The problem lies in, what sports do you pay students in and which ones you do not, and at what level of competition do athletes stop gettting compensated?

Does one sport, say fooball, garner more of a 'pay-out' than a full scholarship B-ball player? There are SO many things to consider when doing something like this. Just playing a little bit of devil's advocate.

But, like I said, I am pretty much all for Football and Basketball athletes being compsensated. Especially when there likenesses (word?) are being used by the NCAA to promote said NCAA, for events or otherwise.

 

[RodentRampage]

Baseball has it right: college for those who want college, minor leages for those who don't. If you don't like the compensation that colleges offer, you can take what the minor leagues offer.

Here's a table for minor league salaries:

Level 1st Year 2nd Year 3rd Year
Rookie $1150 $1200 $1250
Short Season A $1150 $1200 $1250
Low A $1300 $1350 $1400
High A $1500 $1550 $1600
Double A $1700 $1800 $1900
Triple A $2150 $2400 $2700

http://www.yougoprobaseball.com/how-much-money-do-minor-league-baseball-players-make-get-paid.html

 

[Coolew01]

Under Title IX wouldn't you have to pay women too?

 

[Markous15]

Generously a full ride scholarship costs $50,000? It sure costs a hell of a lot more than that at the U. Four years of instate tuition costs $48,240.40 as of this year. Out of state tuition would cost you $69,240.00. When you throw room and board, health care, and books into the mix that's a pretty big chunk of change. Decent article, but that cost of a scholarship is pretty far off for pretty much all big ten schools.

 

[dpodoll68]

Do they mean that it's worth $50 k to the player over 4-5 years? If so, that's laughably short of reality. Reality is at least 2-3 times that.

 

[Ski U Master]

Scholarship is more than enough.

 

[Markous15]

Also the whole fair compensation argument gets really complicated if you start thinking of it both ways. Should a player who gets a full ride scholarship but never really sees the field have to pay back the school?

 

[RailBaronYarr]

Tuition, fees, room and board, and miscellaneous at the U is worth just shy of $25k a year now (in-state). Out of state players with a full ride are realizing closer to 30k a year. That makes for a total value of $100k to $120k over a 4 year period to play football (officially) 5-6 months in a given calendar year (Aug-Nov, spring practice), plus other time performing team duties and workout. All the while they also get access to an education that can set them up for a career outside sports. This also does not include perks such as room and board preference (pick first over other students), free tutor services, access to amenities a typical student doesn't have, access to local business partners for career help, and much more. Consider that a liberal arts degree typically makes ~$30-35k a year AFTER school is over and compare the deal a student athlete is getting.

I agree that the "business" of college football is outrageous in the sense that instead of taking money to fulfill a bigger mission (ie fund MORE student athlete scholarships and sports, funnel money back in to research and keeping tuition down), the money will instead go toward higher and higher salaries, multi-million dollar PRACTICE facilities (as if the giant ones they already have aren't enough) and more perks for certain athletes. However, paying the football players, basketball players, and possibly hockey players at some schools is not the answer to the problem of the sheer amount of money flowing around college football and basketball.

 

[MNSpaniel]

I've said this before .... a scholarship is more than enough. Plus the benefits of private tutors and other benefits. I'm a parent of two children in college right now and both will have loans of over $60,000 even with the help we have been able to give them. So don't give me these poor athlete stories. I was one of them in my day and very much appreciated the money I received. They should not be paid. They already receive a huge payment and they should be made aware of that. Then turn and thank as many people as they can for the future they have been given.

 

[FanSinceTheFifties]

College sports should be amateur sports. I'd like to see these rules established for scholarships. 1. Scholarships must be awarded to an individual, deserving student athlete for five years of education unless the student graduates in four. 2. If a scholarship athlete leaves the program for any reason other than medical, that scholarship must be re-assigned to a student non-athlete for its remaining term thus providing an educational opportunity for a deserving kid. This would encourage schools to recruit prospects who will stay with their program and graduate by being good citizens and students. The NFL and NBA would then create minor leagues to develop those athletes who choose not to be students and now use college sports as a showcase thus denying a scholarship and roster spot to true student-athletes. This is the baseball model. While this would likely lower the average individual skill level on the field and court, it would improve team play as players stayed with their programs longer and more spots would be filled by upperclassmen. Of course this would never happen because major college sports' primary concern isn't student development, it's money.

 

[e.bigelow]

Tuition, fees, room and board, and miscellaneous at the U is worth just shy of $25k a year now (in-state). Out of state players with a full ride are realizing closer to 30k a year. That makes for a total value of $100k to $120k over a 4 year period to play football (officially) 5-6 months in a given calendar year (Aug-Nov, spring practice), plus other time performing team duties and workout. All the while they also get access to an education that can set them up for a career outside sports. This also does not include perks such as room and board preference (pick first over other students), free tutor services, access to amenities a typical student doesn't have, access to local business partners for career help, and much more. Consider that a liberal arts degree typically makes ~$30-35k a year AFTER school is over and compare the deal a student athlete is getting.

I agree that the "business" of college football is outrageous in the sense that instead of taking money to fulfill a bigger mission (ie fund MORE student athlete scholarships and sports, funnel money back in to research and keeping tuition down), the money will instead go toward higher and higher salaries, multi-million dollar PRACTICE facilities (as if the giant ones they already have aren't enough) and more perks for certain athletes. However, paying the football players, basketball players, and possibly hockey players at some schools is not the answer to the problem of the sheer amount of money flowing around college football and basketball.

Rail, I think the second part of your post is what I was trying to get at. You did a much better job of translating your thoughts into punching the keyboard than I did.

 

[lakesgopher]

I've said this before .... a scholarship is more than enough. Plus the benefits of private tutors and other benefits. I'm a parent of two children in college right now and both will have loans of over $60,000 even with the help we have been able to give them. So don't give me these poor athlete stories. I was one of them in my day and very much appreciated the money I received. They should not be paid. They already receive a huge payment and they should be made aware of that. Then turn and thank as many people as they can for the future they have been given.

You have never played a college sport. Anyone can get tutors so that was dumb, your kids don't matter in this issue, they obviously don't play athletics. Your kids have the option to have a job, student athletes do not!

 

[RailBaronYarr]

You have never played a college sport. Anyone can get tutors so that was dumb, your kids don't matter in this issue, they obviously don't play athletics. Your kids have the option to have a job, student athletes do not!

Not direct access, anytime to tutors. Yes, student tutors are available for free but not paid university employees specifically set aside for athletes.

Yes, they do. They can get jobs in the summer or winter ("non-term time") as interns or anything else, just like the rest of us. Being capped at $2,000 a year means a maximum of $72 a week during term time (14 weeks per semester), at $8 an hour that is 9 hours a week. I know many students have the option of working any amount they want, but they also dont have $25-30k in free tuition, fees, room, and board either.

 

[MNSpaniel]

You have never played a college sport. Anyone can get tutors so that was dumb, your kids don't matter in this issue, they obviously don't play athletics. Your kids have the option to have a job, student athletes do not!

Some things are above your comprehension.

 

[lakesgopher]

Not direct access, anytime to tutors. Yes, student tutors are available for free but not paid university employees specifically set aside for athletes.

Yes, they do. They can get jobs in the summer or winter ("non-term time") as interns or anything else, just like the rest of us. Being capped at $2,000 a year means a maximum of $72 a week during term time (14 weeks per semester), at $8 an hour that is 9 hours a week. I know many students have the option of working any amount they want, but they also dont have $25-30k in free tuition, fees, room, and board either.

there is zero time to have a job in the season or in the non season. i played at umd and had no time for work, i had one night a week to be a college kid and that was usually saturday night. there is less time at major conference d1 football. there are strength and conditioning practices, team lifts, study tables, there are team meetings, captains practices, film study, then there are community and fundraising projects your part of, obviously thats different at the U, but i remember having to work security or be the mascot at umd...athletes work much much harder then regular students...i remember a few guys that took the summers off to work and they lost their spots to undeclassmen that worked on their craft all summer...again this is at crappy d2 football in duluth, not major conference football in the big ten. i have friends that played at und anit was the same deal there, some of you think these guys have it so easy because they have a full scholarship and all you see and hear is a handful of things that go on in their daily routine, many of you have no clue

 

[lakesgopher]

i dont think these student athletes deserve tens of thousands of dollars, but $400.00-500.00 extra a month hile they are enrolled in school and receiving a full scholarship imo is more than deserved. i think if your sport is making money after coaches, facilities, etc then that is where the money should come from, if not then those sports dont receive the same treatment. i would argue students that are gifted in the classroom should have the same opportunity if they are on a full academic scholarship and making money for the university in research. as long as there is additional overhead im good with it.

just dont come on here and think because you think these guys ust practice and play games means they have a lot of extra time, they dont.

 

[RailBaronYarr]

there is zero time to have a job in the season or in the non season. i played at umd and had no time for work, i had one night a week to be a college kid and that was usually saturday night. there is less time at major conference d1 football. there are strength and conditioning practices, team lifts, study tables, there are team meetings, captains practices, film study, then there are community and fundraising projects your part of, obviously thats different at the U, but i remember having to work security or be the mascot at umd...athletes work much much harder then regular students...i remember a few guys that took the summers off to work and they lost their spots to undeclassmen that worked on their craft all summer...again this is at crappy d2 football in duluth, not major conference football in the big ten. i have friends that played at und anit was the same deal there, some of you think these guys have it so easy because they have a full scholarship and all you see and hear is a handful of things that go on in their daily routine, many of you have no clue

So... is it that they CANT have a job or they don't have time for one? If they don't have time for one, what are they needing this money you cite for?

Funny, my wife played softball at UST, a DIII national championship program with a more than serious level of work both "encouraged" in the off-season and required during the season. Go ahead and ask anyone who knows Tschida. I also work with a guy who played (started) on 2 UMD DII national championship teams. He had no problem having an ENGINEERING degree level of work, summer internships in his field (where he was able to make more than enough to cover the $400-500 a month you cite) and still make the conditioning. My wife was able to have summer internships with the Navy and a private business. I was able to attend the U in engineering (16 credits in engineering is roughly 2x the class time 12 credits in sports studies has, that is a fact), be in marching band (practice every day plus Friday night, Saturday morning just like the football team without the S&C and film meetings), have a 20 hour a week job, do pep band (hockey, so started in early October with a night practice after M Band and then 2 games a weekend at night when they played at home). And I still had plenty of free time to hang out with friends and go to parties.

Yes, our DI football players work extremely hard. They are more than compensated for their efforts, partiuclarly when you include all the perks they receive. Keep in mind, the cost of room and board that is included in a full ride is more than enough to cover meals, toothpaste, and even non-essentials. $8,000 a year is allotted for room and board. That is $666 per month annualized, or $1,000 a month in-term (if they are required to be on campus during winter or summer their room/board is covered. I'm quite sure that covers mid-range places on campus and food (especially considering how many free meals are given to them as part of their diet control and trips).

 

[lakesgopher]

So... is it that they CANT have a job or they don't have time for one? If they don't have time for one, what are they needing this money you cite for?

Funny, my wife played softball at UST, a DIII national championship program with a more than serious level of work both "encouraged" in the off-season and required during the season. Go ahead and ask anyone who knows Tschida. I also work with a guy who played (started) on 2 UMD DII national championship teams. He had no problem having an ENGINEERING degree level of work, summer internships in his field (where he was able to make more than enough to cover the $400-500 a month you cite) and still make the conditioning. My wife was able to have summer internships with the Navy and a private business. I was able to attend the U in engineering (16 credits in engineering is roughly 2x the class time 12 credits in sports studies has, that is a fact), be in marching band (practice every day plus Friday night, Saturday morning just like the football team without the S&C and film meetings), have a 20 hour a week job, do pep band (hockey, so started in early October with a night practice after M Band and then 2 games a weekend at night when they played at home). And I still had plenty of free time to hang out with friends and go to parties.

Yes, our DI football players work extremely hard. They are more than compensated for their efforts, partiuclarly when you include all the perks they receive. Keep in mind, the cost of room and board that is included in a full ride is more than enough to cover meals, toothpaste, and even non-essentials. $8,000 a year is allotted for room and board. That is $666 per month annualized, or $1,000 a month in-term (if they are required to be on campus during winter or summer their room/board is covered. I'm quite sure that covers mid-range places on campus and food (especially considering how many free meals are given to them as part of their diet control and trips).

Ok your me right I'm wrong I made the story up, all these kids have an abundance of time an dont need the help

 

[Sportsfan24]

The truth is the Big Ten could make Zillions and pay each coach billions, go to year round football (which would require only about aother 3 months or so) and folks would still say the don't deserve a dime.

So to be clear, college football players hit almost every day while their NFL counter parts contractually only have to hit once a week. Should a college football player get hurt his parents insurance pays for it (the school will cover co-pays or whatever the insurance doesn't). Team doctors are paid by the university so whose best interest they have in mind is always in question (right AJ?). The highly paid staffs can come and go whenever they want, the slaves....I mean athletes can't (don't get your panties in a bunch I mostly joking).

Do college football players have it better than the students who aren't on scholarship? I don't know lets ask AJ? Again mostly joking. The real answer is yes they most definitely do, but then those students don't generate half a billion dollars for the school.

But sportsfan, because of title 9 wont they have to pay the girls? No; revenue sports have been carrying women sports since the inception of title 9. The sad truth is aside from the females who play and 5 people who attend the games....nobody cares. Hell women don't care, if they did they would attend the games at least half as much as they attend men sporting events. I'm not saying women sports shouldn't exist. I am saying stop being silly and recognize the goose whose laying the golden eggs.

 

[minnyrules11]

Nobody is forcing athletes to play college football. Slavery lol. Also the general students do create a bunch of revenue for the school that can actually qualify by paying actual tuition dollars. I agree on your title 9 take though.

The truth is the Big Ten could make Zillions and pay each coach billions, go to year round football (which would require only about aother 3 months or so) and folks would still say the don't deserve a dime.

So to be clear, college football players hit almost every day while their NFL counter parts contractually only have to hit once a week. Should a college football player get hurt his parents insurance pays for it (the school will cover co-pays or whatever the insurance doesn't). Team doctors are paid by the university so whose best interest they have in mind is always in question (right AJ?). The highly paid staffs can come and go whenever they want, the slaves....I mean athletes can't (don't get your panties in a bunch I mostly joking).

Do college football players have it better than the students who aren't on scholarship? I don't know lets ask AJ? Again mostly joking. The real answer is yes they most definitely do, but then those students don't generate half a billion dollars for the school.

But sportsfan, because of title 9 wont they have to pay the girls? No; revenue sports have been carrying women sports since the inception of title 9. The sad truth is aside from the females who play and 5 people who attend the games....nobody cares. Hell women don't care, if they did they would attend the games at least half as much as they attend men sporting events. I'm not saying women sports shouldn't exist. I am saying stop being silly and recognize the goose whose laying the golden eggs.

 

[GopherInPittsburgh]

I think the power of Title IX is being underestimated here.

 

[MNSpaniel]

You never did any of that stuff. Your just making it up. .... See how that sounds Lakesgopher. You think your the only one that had a life prior to the present.

there is zero time to have a job in the season or in the non season. i played at umd and had no time for work, i had one night a week to be a college kid and that was usually saturday night. there is less time at major conference d1 football. there are strength and conditioning practices, team lifts, study tables, there are team meetings, captains practices, film study, then there are community and fundraising projects your part of, obviously thats different at the U, but i remember having to work security or be the mascot at umd...athletes work much much harder then regular students...i remember a few guys that took the summers off to work and they lost their spots to undeclassmen that worked on their craft all summer...again this is at crappy d2 football in duluth, not major conference football in the big ten. i have friends that played at und anit was the same deal there, some of you think these guys have it so easy because they have a full scholarship and all you see and hear is a handful of things that go on in their daily routine, many of you have no clue

 

[lakesgopher]

You never did any of that stuff. Your just making it up. .... See how that sounds Lakesgopher. You think your the only one that had a life prior to the present.

Yep you're right I was wrong I'm done too many experts with friends that did it so everyone should. I'm over it you guys will know more than me i apologize

 

[RailBaronYarr]

The truth is the Big Ten could make Zillions and pay each coach billions, go to year round football (which would require only about aother 3 months or so) and folks would still say the don't deserve a dime.

So to be clear, college football players hit almost every day while their NFL counter parts contractually only have to hit once a week. Should a college football player get hurt his parents insurance pays for it (the school will cover co-pays or whatever the insurance doesn't). Team doctors are paid by the university so whose best interest they have in mind is always in question (right AJ?). The highly paid staffs can come and go whenever they want, the slaves....I mean athletes can't (don't get your panties in a bunch I mostly joking).

Do college football players have it better than the students who aren't on scholarship? I don't know lets ask AJ? Again mostly joking. The real answer is yes they most definitely do, but then those students don't generate half a billion dollars for the school.

But sportsfan, because of title 9 wont they have to pay the girls? No; revenue sports have been carrying women sports since the inception of title 9. The sad truth is aside from the females who play and 5 people who attend the games....nobody cares. Hell women don't care, if they did they would attend the games at least half as much as they attend men sporting events. I'm not saying women sports shouldn't exist. I am saying stop being silly and recognize the goose whose laying the golden eggs.

Players in college start taking no hit practices pretty early in the season for the same reason the NFLers do.. to prevent injury. Players can also have insurance against injury while in school (see Eric Decker from his senior season). And if parent's health insurance covers injury and the U covers the copay... what is the issue? Where is the amount the player/family has to pay?

Also, quite a hyperbole to say the players generate half a billion in revenue.. I think the highest revenue athletic departments bring in ~$150M in revenue (profit is another story, link), with the football programs bringing in sub $100M at even the biggest schools (again, revenue, they're not profiting in hundreds of millions as the spend ON these athlete like the facilities/gear/trainers/food/etc is so very high). But I get your point, it's not outrageous to think of an AD bringing in $500M in revenue in the foreseeable future.

I'm not in disagreement with you on the Title 9 issue. But it brings up a very good point: are people crying for these athletes to be paid because they spend so much time working on their sport that they truly deserve something? Or because they are the ones generating revenue? What about the non-scholarship football players who work just as hard? Or the half/quarter/no scholly players on various other sports?

I guess it's just way too hard for me to say a free education/living expenses AND free training in their desired sport for a chance at the next level (plus all the other goodies) just isn't enough.

 

[NewGopherFan]

College sports should be amateur sports. I'd like to see these rules established for scholarships. 1. Scholarships must be awarded to an individual, deserving student athlete for five years of education unless the student graduates in four. 2. If a scholarship athlete leaves the program for any reason other than medical, that scholarship must be re-assigned to a student non-athlete for its remaining term thus providing an educational opportunity for a deserving kid. This would encourage schools to recruit prospects who will stay with their program and graduate by being good citizens and students. The NFL and NBA would then create minor leagues to develop those athletes who choose not to be students and now use college sports as a showcase thus denying a scholarship and roster spot to true student-athletes. This is the baseball model. While this would likely lower the average individual skill level on the field and court, it would improve team play as players stayed with their programs longer and more spots would be filled by upperclassmen. Of course this would never happen because major college sports' primary concern isn't student development, it's money.

I have been browsing here for a while and would like to start becoming involved. FanSinceTheFifties- I completely agree with your post. It would be the perfect scenario. The trouble is that it will never happen. NCAA FB and BB are not about the player in anyway. Forced majors, long hours, and no cut of the pie. In my opinion, Jerry Kill is one of the good guys in this regard. I haven't followed closely since he came to Minn....but I do know in his prior HC jobs, he only dismissed 4 players! That is incredible. Take kids who you believe will buy into what you're doing. They don't have to come from perfect pasts (usually they come from just the opposite)- only have the desire for a better future- and mold them into your type of player. If your post was the way it worked- more schools would have to look at it the way Kill does.

 

[GophersInIowa]

there is zero time to have a job in the season or in the non season. i played at umd and had no time for work, i had one night a week to be a college kid and that was usually saturday night. there is less time at major conference d1 football. there are strength and conditioning practices, team lifts, study tables, there are team meetings, captains practices, film study, then there are community and fundraising projects your part of, obviously thats different at the U, but i remember having to work security or be the mascot at umd...athletes work much much harder then regular students...i remember a few guys that took the summers off to work and they lost their spots to undeclassmen that worked on their craft all summer...again this is at crappy d2 football in duluth, not major conference football in the big ten. i have friends that played at und anit was the same deal there, some of you think these guys have it so easy because they have a full scholarship and all you see and hear is a handful of things that go on in their daily routine, many of you have no clue

I'm on vacation and just taking a quick pass through to see what's going on. Had to comment in this thread. I played at the same level as UMD and completely disagree with your stance. Yes, it is tough to work during the season. During the winter, there is time for a little work study if you want. During the summers, I worked 40 hrs a week and still found time for 2-3 hrs a day to workout, etc. Unless you're taking summer classes, what the hell else would you be doing all summer? It's not like lifting, running, captain practices, etc. take up 10 hours a day. There is no reason most athletes can't find time for at least a part time job.

I never received a scholarship until I was a junior, and even then it was a partial one. I worked my ass off in school and as a player for four years. I was just thankful I received a partial scholarship after my second year. It's going to end up taking me 15 years to pay off my school loan. Without that it probably would take 20 years.

Athletes are getting paid already. They work (practice, working out, etc) and are paid (scholarship). I'm not bitter that I didn't get much of a scholarship even though I worked extremely hard and kept a very good GPA. But this whole "victim" thing is ridiculous. Many of these top athletes don't understand how lucky they are.

 

[GophersInIowa]

The truth is the Big Ten could make Zillions and pay each coach billions, go to year round football (which would require only about aother 3 months or so) and folks would still say the don't deserve a dime.

So to be clear, college football players hit almost every day while their NFL counter parts contractually only have to hit once a week. Should a college football player get hurt his parents insurance pays for it (the school will cover co-pays or whatever the insurance doesn't). Team doctors are paid by the university so whose best interest they have in mind is always in question (right AJ?). The highly paid staffs can come and go whenever they want, the slaves....I mean athletes can't (don't get your panties in a bunch I mostly joking).

Do college football players have it better than the students who aren't on scholarship? I don't know lets ask AJ? Again mostly joking. The real answer is yes they most definitely do, but then those students don't generate half a billion dollars for the school.

But sportsfan, because of title 9 wont they have to pay the girls? No; revenue sports have been carrying women sports since the inception of title 9. The sad truth is aside from the females who play and 5 people who attend the games....nobody cares. Hell women don't care, if they did they would attend the games at least half as much as they attend men sporting events. I'm not saying women sports shouldn't exist. I am saying stop being silly and recognize the goose whose laying the golden eggs.

It seems that your stance then is that 1) these top athletes have it pretty good, 2) but they don't get enough of the piece of the pie
Am I correct? Although I don't disagree with you to an extent, lets stop acting like these athletes are victims.

As for the title 9 thing, I just think in today's day and age there will be people coming out of the woodwork supporting women if they don't get paid but men do. The two arguments are: the men, generally, are producing the money for the athletic programs. But it's not the women athlete's fault and they work just as hard as the men. No doubt it would be a big mess but it will probably happen someday.

Like most arguments, things usually fall somewhere in the middle. The argument against getting paid a lot of times is that they get so many advantages already and that it's not that hard to be an athlete in college. In most situations, that is false of course. But then you have others that feel the athletes are being taken advantage of and are victims. I think it probably falls somewhere in the middle of those two arguments.