Migrant Caravan



bottlebass

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Yes. (note: the R’s had full control of government for 2 years and did not address this budget.)

Yep the Rs are just as much to blame as the Ds. But notice how that means the Ds are just as much to blame. What have the Ds done? Why haven't they tried to get something for giving Trump the wall. He wants the wall so bad, shoot for the moon. At least try something.
 

cncmin

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Yep the Rs are just as much to blame as the Ds. But notice how that means the Ds are just as much to blame. What have the Ds done? Why haven't they tried to get something for giving Trump the wall. He wants the wall so bad, shoot for the moon. At least try something.

I had a post on this subject yesterday (Pelosi overplaying her hand), but what exactly did you want the Dems to do from Jan 2017 through Dec 2018 while they controlled zero branches of govt? The current mess is [almost] all on the R’s.
 

JimmyJamesMD

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I had a post on this subject yesterday (Pelosi overplaying her hand), but what exactly did you want the Dems to do from Jan 2017 through Dec 2018 while they controlled zero branches of govt? The current mess is [almost] all on the R’s.

I agree with you. For two years republicans had plenty of time but they had too much infighting (anti trumpers)
 


bottlebass

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I had a post on this subject yesterday (Pelosi overplaying her hand), but what exactly did you want the Dems to do from Jan 2017 through Dec 2018 while they controlled zero branches of govt? The current mess is [almost] all on the R’s.

I wanted them to work, do their jobs, pass legislation, compromise, negotiate get it done.
 

cncmin

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I wanted them to work (check), do their jobs (check), pass legislation (not allowed to do so), compromise (R’s didn’t need to compromise to pass legislation, therefore the Dems had nothing with which to compromise), negotiate get it done (not allowed to get anything done).

Bass, you understand what being powerless entails, right? Did the R’s cede the Dems some power that I’m missing, here? I’m trying to understand your point, which on the surface seems directed to the near future rather than the present or the past two years.
 

bottlebass

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Bass, you understand what being powerless entails, right? Did the R’s cede the Dems some power that I’m missing, here? I’m trying to understand your point, which on the surface seems directed to the near future rather than the present or the past two years.

So why even have members of congress in the minority party elected? Why not just send the losing party home after each election and tell them better luck next time? They are there because we elected them and none of them are doing their jobs. Just because they don't have the numbers they should do nothing? And when they do have the numbers they should just obstruct so nothing gets done? That is the problem.
 

howeda7

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Yep the Rs are just as much to blame as the Ds. But notice how that means the Ds are just as much to blame. What have the Ds done? Why haven't they tried to get something for giving Trump the wall. He wants the wall so bad, shoot for the moon. At least try something.

They did try. They had a deal with the Wall and protection for the Dreamers and Trump had agreed to it. Then his resident white nationalist got his ear and out came the "$5$%-hole countries" rant and the agreement blew up. If Trump wasn't incompetent and prone to agreeing with the last person he talked to, this would have been over months ago.
 



cncmin

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So why even have members of congress in the minority party elected? Why not just send the losing party home after each election and tell them better luck next time? They are there because we elected them and none of them are doing their jobs. Just because they don't have the numbers they should do nothing? And when they do have the numbers they should just obstruct so nothing gets done? That is the problem.

Partisanship is the problem. It’s not that the Dems SHOULD have been powerless, it’s that Ryan and McConnell made them such and refused D input on pretty much everything. Because they could, I guess. The problem is partisanship and refusal for bipartisanship . Fix that and the country is repaired.
 

JimmyJamesMD

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They did try. They had a deal with the Wall and protection for the Dreamers and Trump had agreed to it. Then his resident white nationalist got his ear and out came the "$5$%-hole countries" rant and the agreement blew up. If Trump wasn't incompetent and prone to agreeing with the last person he talked to, this would have been over months ago.

What was the deal? Why didn't the alt right white nationalist baby hating grandma killing racists like it?
 

justthefacts

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What was the deal? Why didn't the alt right white nationalist baby hating grandma killing racists like it?

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...ut-the-looming-shutdown&p=1655438#post1655438

Here's a good article discussing something I talked about earlier in this thread. Trump could have already had his Wall funding, but he bungled it:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...wall-slip-away

Trump’s best chance for border wall funding at the level he wants came in February 2018, when Republican Senator Mike Rounds teamed up with independent Senator Angus King on compromise immigration legislation.

It included $25 billion over a decade to build a wall along the southern border and a path to citizenship for so-called Dreamers who were brought to the U.S. illegally as children. It also barred green card holders from sponsoring adult children for permanent residency and reoriented enforcement priorities to focus on criminals in the country illegally.

Trump torched the bill as a "giant amnesty" for narrowing the scope of deportations, and complained that it didn’t end diversity visas or stop "chain migration" -- his derisive term for laws that allow American citizens to sponsor siblings and parents for green cards.
"We had 54 votes without support from our leadership or from the White House. And there were 45 Democrats who agreed to spend $25 billion, not only authorized but appropriated, over a 10 year period of time," Rounds of South Dakota said in an interview Wednesday. "I still think it’s the correct thing to do. I think it would have been a step in the right direction."

"It needs the president’s support in order to proceed," he said.

Senator Lamar Alexander, a Tennessee Republican who backed the bill, said it "solved the DACA problem, gave the president what he wanted on border security." Alexander said there’s a lesson in the failure: "We better take these opportunities as they come."
A second opportunity for Trump presented itself in March, when Congress faced a deadline to fund the government and the two parties began negotiations to attach immigration provisions to the measure. Congressional Democratic leaders offered the president $25 billion to build the wall in exchange for a path to citizenship for undocumented youth eligible for DACA.

But the White House and GOP leaders opposed that and offered only a two-and-a-half year protection for DACA beneficiaries in exchange for the $25 billion wall. Democrats said no, arguing that it’d permanently give Trump his wish while leaving Dreamers in limbo after a few years, according to people familiar with the negotiations at the time.

_______________________________

Trump blew it. He'd now kill for those deals. But the midterms happened.
 

JimmyJamesMD

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http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...ut-the-looming-shutdown&p=1655438#post1655438

Here's a good article discussing something I talked about earlier in this thread. Trump could have already had his Wall funding, but he bungled it:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...wall-slip-away




_______________________________

Trump blew it. He'd now kill for those deals. But the midterms happened.

Thats interesting. And now he only wants $5 billion instead of $25 billion?
 



justthefacts

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https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/21/government-shutdown-immigration-graham-miller-354747

By ELANA SCHOR 01/21/2018 03:04 PM EST Updated 01/21/2018 04:28 PM EST
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Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) on Sunday renewed his criticism of White House aides' handling of immigration, portraying them as having undercut President Donald Trump's ability to cut a deal as the government shutdown entered its second day.

Graham singled out White House senior policy adviser Stephen Miller, a pugnacious conservative who has a keen focus on restrictive immigration policy.

"As long as Stephen Miller is in charge of negotiating immigration, we are going nowhere. He's been an outlier for years," Graham told reporters as he entered a meeting of more than a dozen senators from both parties who have worked since the shutdown began to carve out space for a compromise.

The South Carolina Republican appeared earlier this month to have forged a détente with Miller, who fought bipartisan attempts at an immigration deal in 2013 as an aide to then-Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.). But Graham, who has recently also tangled with fellow GOP Sen. Tom Cotton of Arkansas, gave specific examples on Sunday of Trump aides leaving the president ill-served in immigration talks.

"I’ve talked with the president — his heart is right on this issue," Graham said. "He’s got a good understanding of what will sell, and every time we have a proposal it is only yanked back by staff members."
 

howeda7

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What was the deal? Why didn't the alt right white nationalist baby hating grandma killing racists like it?

I don't know all the details, but it made DACA permanent with a path to citizenship for Dreamers in exchange for funding for the wall. Senators in both parties were happy with it. So was Trump until Stephen Miller got a hold of him. You'd have to ask him why he didn't like it, but I'm guessing the thought of brown people getting to stay here was more than his little racist heart could bear.
 

Sportsfan24

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why not? Sounds like a good negotiation tactic to me

For Trump, sure. That’s like if I had two cars and you took one and to get it back I traded my remaining car for it. You end up with a car and I end up 1 car short.


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Bad Gopher

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I don't know all the details, but it made DACA permanent with a path to citizenship for Dreamers in exchange for funding for the wall. Senators in both parties were happy with it. So was Trump until Stephen Miller got a hold of him. You'd have to ask him why he didn't like it, but I'm guessing the thought of brown people getting to stay here was more than his little racist heart could bear.

It's becoming clear how prominent the white nationalist factor is in all of this. It's not just Trump saying the right things in order to get people to come out and vote. Miller has him convinced he has to walk the walk, too. If that's the case, then we do essentially have a white nationalist administration, and the Republican Party, in aligning with Trump, is carrying that flag. I suppose this is how civilized nations end up going down this road.
 

diehard

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That White Nationalist BS is ignorant beyond insulting. Trump is producing positive results for the Black community and is making real inroads that scare the Ds. Fear is the source of your ignorance.
 

Sportsfan24

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That White Nationalist BS is ignorant beyond insulting. Trump is producing positive results for the Black community and is making real inroads that scare the Ds. Fear is the source of your ignorance.

“Positive” results in the black community are a by product of what was an improving economy that was started by the previous administration and until recently continued by Trump. What’s insulting is for dumb asses to assume black people are too stupid to realize this.


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diehard

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Glad yo are finally getting it. Took long enough.
 


howeda7

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“Positive” results in the black community are a by product of what was an improving economy that was started by the previous administration and until recently continued by Trump. What’s insulting is for dumb asses to assume black people are too stupid to realize this.


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So, you're saying "hey a few more of you got jobs, shut up and stop complaining about our blatant racism" isn't a way to win over minority voters?
 

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So, you're saying "hey a few more of you got jobs, shut up and stop complaining about our blatant racism" isn't a way to win over minority voters?

That just about sums it up.

Hitler greatly reduced the unemployment rate in Germany for non Jews by removing Jews from the work force......funny, I never hear anyone refer to him as a job creator?[emoji848]

And No snowflakes, I’m not comparing Trump to Hitler.


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TruthSeeker

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I wanted them to work, do their jobs, pass legislation, compromise, negotiate get it done.

You are sometimes bright and sometimes dim. You are very dim when discussing politics and power. Stick to othet topics.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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The lefties have to keep pushing the racism angle. It works on the uneducated. The truth is Trump is extremely dangerous to Democratic party power, due to his popularity among Blacks specifically.

His popularity is more than 3x the average for GOP candidates. The balance of power is so precarious that if Trump could pull 5% more than the National average, the D's would have no chance in 2020 and the Democratic party masters know it. That's why they must continue to demonize Trump as racist.

How can this happen? The truth is the Democratic party doesn't represent Black people anymore, just like they don't represent blue collar workers, or farmers anymore. Black people by and large, aren't as snowflakey as the wealthy White liberals who set the agenda. Blacks don't care about transgender bathroom issues, letting illegal aliens flood the country, etc. Like most normal people, especially middle class and working class people, they care about economics.

Black unemployment is at an all time low, and not just is unemployment low, but wages for low earners is up for the first time in a decade because Trump is working for Main St. rather than Wall St.

Couple that with his initiatives for opportunity zones that place incoming jobs in the inner cities, job training programs & he's giving Black people what they actually want, a fair chance economically.

Add in the prison reform/sentencing bill, and Trump has done more for Black people than any president since another Republican, Abraham Lincoln, freed the slaves.

That's why he's polling in the high 30%'s with Blacks, rather than the usual GOP 10%.
 

TruthSeeker

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The lefties have to keep pushing the racism angle. It works on the uneducated. The truth is Trump is extremely dangerous to Democratic party power, due to his popularity among Blacks specifically.

His popularity is more than 3x the average for GOP candidates. The balance of power is so precarious that if Trump could pull 5% more than the National average, the D's would have no chance in 2020 and the Democratic party masters know it. That's why they must continue to demonize Trump as racist.

How can this happen? The truth is the Democratic party doesn't represent Black people anymore, just like they don't represent blue collar workers, or farmers anymore. Black people by and large, aren't as snowflakey as the wealthy White liberals who set the agenda. Blacks don't care about transgender bathroom issues, letting illegal aliens flood the country, etc. Like most normal people, especially middle class and working class people, they care about economics.

Black unemployment is at an all time low, and not just is unemployment low, but wages for low earners is up for the first time in a decade because Trump is working for Main St. rather than Wall St.

Couple that with his initiatives for opportunity zones that place incoming jobs in the inner cities, job training programs & he's giving Black people what they actually want, a fair chance economically.

Add in the prison reform/sentencing bill, and Trump has done more for Black people than any president since another Republican, Abraham Lincoln, freed the slaves.

That's why he's polling in the high 30%'s with Blacks, rather than the usual GOP 10%.

I am not calling you a liar, but your numbers don't add up. If he's low 40's or high 30's, then what you're saying isn't possibly accurate.
 

Sportsfan24

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The lefties have to keep pushing the racism angle. It works on the uneducated. The truth is Trump is extremely dangerous to Democratic party power, due to his popularity among Blacks specifically.

His popularity is more than 3x the average for GOP candidates. The balance of power is so precarious that if Trump could pull 5% more than the National average, the D's would have no chance in 2020 and the Democratic party masters know it. That's why they must continue to demonize Trump as racist.

How can this happen? The truth is the Democratic party doesn't represent Black people anymore, just like they don't represent blue collar workers, or farmers anymore. Black people by and large, aren't as snowflakey as the wealthy White liberals who set the agenda. Blacks don't care about transgender bathroom issues, letting illegal aliens flood the country, etc. Like most normal people, especially middle class and working class people, they care about economics.

Black unemployment is at an all time low, and not just is unemployment low, but wages for low earners is up for the first time in a decade because Trump is working for Main St. rather than Wall St.

Couple that with his initiatives for opportunity zones that place incoming jobs in the inner cities, job training programs & he's giving Black people what they actually want, a fair chance economically.

Add in the prison reform/sentencing bill, and Trump has done more for Black people than any president since another Republican, Abraham Lincoln, freed the slaves.

That's why he's polling in the high 30%'s with Blacks, rather than the usual GOP 10%.

Really? Aside from my ONE black friend who’s a minister, I don’t know of ANY black people personally who doesn’t believe he’s a racist let alone like him. And not that it matters but most of them are quite educated. Since we are playing this game....I don’t know of any white people who aren’t racist that supports Trump. I’m sure they probably exist, I just haven’t met any.

The Democratic Party doesn’t support black people you say? Yet, 90% of Black people support the Democratic Party? Oh that’s right, we need a white boy to tell us how and what we should think because we are too damn stupid to know for ourselves? I would expect something this racist and fuc••king stupid from BGA,S2 or Diehard?

The truth is blacks are usually ahead of the curve on racism, that’s the REASON why we haven’t voted for the GOP since they accepted the racists and started dog whispering to them. The GOP was all about the “policies” until Trump outed them.

Black folks are not monolithic, stupid or ignorant. Maybe you should give us just a LITTLE bit of credit? If 90% of us arrive at the same conclusion.........


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howeda7

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The idea that Trump's polling 30% with blacks while polling 39% overall is beyond ridiculous. Try 3%.
 




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