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SelectionSunday

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I realize Izzo always plays a difficult non-league schedule & I know what's happened so far (5-3 vs. D-I competition) isn't earth-shattering considering who the losses have come against (UConn, Duke, Syracuse), but is there a more puzzling program in November and December than Sparty? Of the truly elite programs in the country, early every season it seems like it's MSU looking the most vulnerable, and this year it's not just a matter of waiting for Lucas to round into form. There have been a myriad of problems. ... rebounding, FT shooting, turnovers, still no signs of emergence from (a supposedly 100% healthy Delvon) Roe, the two heralded freshmen (Appling & Payne) have looked mostly lost.

In the end only a fool would count out MSU in March, but I have to believe at some point Sparty is going to get burned for their November-December struggles. Losing their most notable non-Big Ten games kills them when it comes time for NCAA seeding. At some point, Sparty's not going to be able to make the Final Four as a 5-seed like they have a couple times under Izzo.
 

It seems like every year MSU struggles/has a few bumps in the road in Nov and Dec but by BT time and tournament time they put it together. I expect the same this year.
 

It is a process to determine strengths and weaknesses every year, they will be ready start big ten schedule. They miss Allen's outside shooting right now.
 

I think it works to his advantage to have such a tough NC schedule (and by tough, I mean extremely difficult). You want to play games early that push your limits and exploit your weaknesses. Work on those during the season and against weaker opponents, and you start winning in January-February. As long as he doesn't fall below a 4 seed because of it, they should be fine. They're the most consistent tournament team of the last decade, bar none.

Minnesota can only schedule a couple tough games early on since we need those extra wins for seeding - or just to get in the tourney.

That said, MSU hasn't looked as good losing as they have in the last couple years...Syracuse by 13 for their 3rd loss??
 

In Myron's power poll I finally moved MSU down to #2 in the conference. Clearly OSU has had a better start to their season, but as I wrote last night, if I had to bet on one team to win the Big 10 right now I would still bet on MSU. Everyone's excited about OSU, but their two "big" wins are against mediocre Florida and Florida State teams.
 


SelectionSunday said:
I realize Izzo always plays a difficult non-league schedule & I know what's happened so far (5-3 vs. D-I competition) isn't earth-shattering considering who the losses have come against (UConn, Duke, Syracuse), but is there a more puzzling program in November and December than Sparty? Of the truly elite programs in the country, early every season it seems like it's MSU looking the most vulnerable, and this year it's not just a matter of waiting for Lucas to round into form. There have been a myriad of problems. ... rebounding, FT shooting, turnovers, still no signs of emergence from (a supposedly 100% healthy Delvon) Roe, the two heralded freshmen (Appling & Payne) have looked mostly lost.

In the end only a fool would count out MSU in March, but I have to believe at some point Sparty is going to get burned for their November-December struggles. Losing their most notable non-Big Ten games kills them when it comes time for NCAA seeding. At some point, Sparty's not going to be able to make the Final Four as a 5-seed like they have a couple times under Izzo.
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SS, great post. I watched 1/2 of the game last night. As I have said in my previous posts about MSU, I think that Izzo is really missing Allen. They could have used him last night.
 

Everyone who is worried about MSU raise there hand?

Yup that's what I thought.
 

I guess I'll raise my hand. I think MSU will continue to have problems without consistent strong inside play. That in itself puts extra burdens on the guards. A full recovery for Lucas to pre-injury days may be more than a year away, especially since he is needed on the court for 40 minutes. MSU is still a good team...but perhaps not great this year. Nix has rejoined the team, but is the chemistry where it needs to be? I'm an Izzo fan and I think he has his hands full this year. The early-season beat-downs have exposed weaknesses that will be difficult to strengthen with the current player situations.
 

Right now it looks like OSU is the best - and the rest of the Big10 will be up for anybody's guess.
 



CollegeBBallFan said:
I guess I'll raise my hand. I think MSU will continue to have problems without consistent strong inside play. That in itself puts extra burdens on the guards. A full recovery for Lucas to pre-injury days may be more than a year away, especially since he is needed on the court for 40 minutes. MSU is still a good team...but perhaps not great this year. Nix has rejoined the team, but is the chemistry where it needs to be? I'm an Izzo fan and I think he has his hands full this year. The early-season beat-downs have exposed weaknesses that will be difficult to strengthen with the current player situations.
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Great points. I agree with you 100 %. One thing that I noticed last night was the level of confidence. You could see that veteran players have tons of it and new ones don't. This is the case every year with Izzo's teams at the begining of the season. Toward the end, he injects confidence and winning mentality into his new players' heads. I am not sure how he does it but he does it better than any other coaches in the country.

Go Gophers
 

One thing is for certain. The Spartans will screw me over come tournament time again. If I don't pick them to do anything, they will surely make a deep run. If I have them advancing far, they will fizzle out early like the Ager, Brown, and Davis team. :mad:

They sure haven't look good so far. And I really hate seeing any Big Ten team (yes, even Wisconsin) lose to any team from the Big East or ACC.
 

station19 said:
It seems like every year MSU struggles/has a few bumps in the road in Nov and Dec but by BT time and tournament time they put it together. I expect the same this year.
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That is certainly the case the last 2 years. The 7 previous years MSU finished 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 6th, 7th, and 4th place in the Big Ten, despite being predicted to win the Big Ten 4 of those 7 years. The Final Four run in 2005 really saved the perception of that program during those years. And of course, that 7 year span is bookended by Final Fours, a national title, and Big Ten championships, but for the majority of the 2000s, MSU underachieved rather significantly throughout the entire regular season.
 

Given a choice, I would rather have my team underacheive during the regular season than the NCAAs. But I think that's what pi**es Izzo off. He's big on winning any kind of championship, so as you said the Big Ten title drought (regular season or Big Ten Tournament) from the 2001-02 to 2007-08 seasons clearly got under his skin.

Still, I don't think 13 consecutive NCAA appearances (only Wisconsin in the Big Ten can come close to matching that with 12), 6 Final Fours, 1 national title, 1 national runner-up, 6 regular-season titles and 2 BTT championships is too bad of an accomplishment over a 15-year head coaching career. I think one of the main things hacking him off now is the lack of a BTT title since 2000 which, coincidentally, was the year Sparty won it all. If Izzo has a black mark, I think that's what I'd nit-pick at. ... Sparty has really underchieved in the BTT since their back-to-back titles. I don't think they've even made the championship game since?
 



ParaBadger said:
That is certainly the case the last 2 years. The 7 previous years MSU finished 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 6th, 7th, and 4th place in the Big Ten, despite being predicted to win the Big Ten 4 of those 7 years. The Final Four run in 2005 really saved the perception of that program during those years. And of course, that 7 year span is bookended by Final Fours, a national title, and Big Ten championships, but for the majority of the 2000s, MSU underachieved rather significantly throughout the entire regular season.
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Great post. Thanks for the info. I did not know any of this. Finishing 7th in Big10? It is very hard to believe.

Go Gophers
 

I never make an evaluation of Michigan State till after the 4th or 5th Big Ten game. Seems like they almost always struggle early, you don't know till about the halfway point of the season if they are going to be great, good, or above average.
 

If there is one team that could go 0-10 in their first 10 games, and still win the National Championship, it's MSU.

You can put $$$ on it; they'll be in the running for a Big 10 title no matter how bad they look right now.
 

Perhaps the top-end of the Big 10 is not quite as dangerous as we thought? I'm still impressed by the depth of the top 6, but the top 3 that were supposed to be world-beaters all seem to have issues. OSU looks great, but can they really stay top 5 all year running thier starters into the ground? All that said my money is still on Izzo.
 


That thread is Wisconsin fans way of saying they're envious they don't have anywhere near the postseason success that Izzo has. As a Gopher fan I'd trade places with Izzo's "underachieving" teams in a heartbeat.

Can't Badger fans just accept the fact they have a great coach (Bo), and MSU does, too? Is that so hard to acknowledge?

Coming in 30, 29, 28, 27 seconds. ... cue any Badger fan reading this to remind us of Bo's winning record vs. Izzo.
 

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