Long Beach State
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SelectionSunday
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They get Auburn tonight (10/ESPN2) in the semifinals, then potentially K-State in the title game on Christmas Night. Especially if LBSU wins this tournament, they'll be in a pretty good position for an at-large berth, so long as they don't lose a bunch of games in the Big West. If they end up anywhere near the bubble, they're exactly the kind of team the Selection Committee is likely to reward for playing (and winning a few of 'em) a killer nonconference schedule.
Monson's team is a classic mid major formula and they have not just played a tough schedule. They are a good team with experienced players and will be a team none of the big boys will want to play in March. They have been very close the last two years and ran into buzz saws in their conference tournament. They're due.
GopherJake
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A lock? Get serious.
LBS played very tough defense last night and have a few guys that are fearless going to the basket. Horrible free throw shooting though. 12-22 with about 7 minutes left. Didn't see how they ended up. Xavier couldn't buy a basket though.
Xavier was down by 16 midway through the 2nd half and went on an 8-0 run. Monson called TO and LBS went on a 10-1 run. Never close after that.
Bad Gopher
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I haven't checked any RPI sites, but they're sitting at No. 28 in the Sagarin ratings and can boast the nation's toughest schedule thus far based on Sagarin's calc. Not sure what their conference schedule will do to them mathematically, but I like their chances of becoming upset proof in their conference tournament by being good enough to qualify as an at-large.
Mid-20's Sagarin ranking is about where Gonzaga was when Dan took them to the Final 8 back in the day. Look out.
If you're wondering, Minnesota is barely top-50 in the Sagarin at this moment in time.
LBS should breeze through their conference barring injury. I'd guess one or two losses in conference. The two issues they have are height and depth. Otherwise they are fast, athletic and can shoot. A deadly combo.
dpodoll68
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Assuming they don't completely trip over their own d*cks in their conference schedule...yes, they are a lock. They are 6-5 right now, so assuming they finish somewhere in the ballpark of 25-8 or so (depending on how far they go in their conference tourney), with wins over Pitt, BYU and Xavier (all probable top 6 seeds in the NCAA), and losses to UNC, Kansas, Louisville, and SDSU (3 of the 4 by single digits, SDSU in OT, all on the road)...yes, they are a lock.
From the Barn
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BYU won't be a 6 seed and hasn't played LBSU (they played BYU-Hawaii, a DII or DIII school), so I'm not sure why you brought them up.
They'll have one very good win and one decent (xavier wasn't close to full strength). Good enough? Maybe.
They also lost to Montana which likely cancels out one of the wins, and after this tournament they have no chance for any other good wins.
They'll have one very good win and one decent (xavier wasn't close to full strength). Good enough? Maybe.
They also lost to Montana which likely cancels out one of the wins, and after this tournament they have no chance for any other good wins.
Big Play
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Are you serious!! Look at who they have beaten and played!!
GopherJake
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Guys. Any chance an injury or two could impact their "lock" status? How about a couple unexpected losses? An upset in their conference tourney? Calling a low/mid-major a lock before the conference season begins is premature, at best. Lots of huge assumptions involved in calling any team like this a "lock."
To each his own.
Gopher Warrior
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LBSU has lots of work to do. Far from a lock. They have only 4 wins so far this year (that the Committee will care about - 2 'wins' came against non-DI oppoenents).
They also have only 28 real games this season.
They also have only 28 real games this season.
BreakTheGopherCurse
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Serious Question
I love the Gophers, but I don't follow it as closely as most of you. So, here is my sincere question: Why was Monson successful at Gonzaga, having success at LBSU, but seemed like a tired, defeated, burned-out coach while leading the Gophers? He always seemed so down-in-the-dumps and frustrated. Was the Haskins scandal a monumental setback for him to overcome? Does it have to do with his system not working in the Big Ten? Do Gonzaga and LBSU attract better players than Minnesota in general? Really interested in understanding better. Thanks.
I love the Gophers, but I don't follow it as closely as most of you. So, here is my sincere question: Why was Monson successful at Gonzaga, having success at LBSU, but seemed like a tired, defeated, burned-out coach while leading the Gophers? He always seemed so down-in-the-dumps and frustrated. Was the Haskins scandal a monumental setback for him to overcome? Does it have to do with his system not working in the Big Ten? Do Gonzaga and LBSU attract better players than Minnesota in general? Really interested in understanding better. Thanks.
XMan
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The other side of this story is Xavier. This is a very good team that should have and would have still been defeated if the fight with cincinnati hadn't happened. They have no one to blame but themselves. The coach should have shut down the gangsta talk stuff and trash talk way before the altercation. Cost them two losses so far. The team and Coach got off too easy in my opinion. So did the Cincinnati guy who really clocked the Xavier player.
Atl Gopher
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I heard that some former players thought that he was completely over his head and out of control with the Gophers. They felt he simply could not coach at this level. It seems that his success with Gonzaga and Long Beach State discredit those comments to some degree. With the Gophers he obvioulsy had a lot to overcome with the Clem's issues. I always thought that he was a good guy and a decent coach, but he could not control the Chris Humphries of the world. It seemed like there was always a "superstar" on the team and there was no sence of team really.
From the Barn
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So, about those quality wins for LBSU. Pitt loses at home to Wagner and Xavier loses to Hawaii. And I appreciate the friendly reminder to be thankful that the Gophers are 12-1, because Hawaii and Wagner are not good basketball teams.
BarnBurner
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Yet the talk here is the Gophs are an easy in with 20 wins.
Take a stab at the Gophs record if they played the sched LBSU has played. My guess is the W's would be half of what they are currently.
SelectionSunday
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The key, as always, will be how those wins look on Selection Sunday, not how they look today. For LBSU, how will the likes of Pitt & Xavier look? For the Gophers, how will the likes of Indiana State & Virginia Tech, etc. look? Of course, that's provided either or both of LBSU/Gophers do enough to merit at-large consideration during the remainder of the regular season.
Agree that we should be thankful for the 12-1 mark. There could have been major slip-ups, but there weren't. A lot of times that's half the battle.
Munse coached the Zags for two seasons. One NIT and one Elite Eight run with them.
This is his 5th season at LBSU. He has made one NIT in the previous 4 seasons although they could have made the Tourney instead of NIT last season. One thing is that this season, he has 7 players who contribute meaningfully (or play more than 6 minutes per game). Of those, 5 seniors, one junior, and one frosh. In other words, his team may go through a typical cycle for a decent mid-major team, making the Tourney every 4 seasons. And, this season is not over yet. I am not trying to be sarcastic about how well Dan is doing at LBSU. But, he is what I think he is. A good mid-major coach. Of course, one great run this season can catapult him back into the high major rank.
One of his biggest problems with us was that he could not recruit enough quality 4 yr players.
This is his 5th season at LBSU. He has made one NIT in the previous 4 seasons although they could have made the Tourney instead of NIT last season. One thing is that this season, he has 7 players who contribute meaningfully (or play more than 6 minutes per game). Of those, 5 seniors, one junior, and one frosh. In other words, his team may go through a typical cycle for a decent mid-major team, making the Tourney every 4 seasons. And, this season is not over yet. I am not trying to be sarcastic about how well Dan is doing at LBSU. But, he is what I think he is. A good mid-major coach. Of course, one great run this season can catapult him back into the high major rank.
One of his biggest problems with us was that he could not recruit enough quality 4 yr players.
Monson may have been in over his head in the Big Ten. His success at Gonzaga and Beach is in the context of west coast mid major basketball, which is very different than the intensity and consistent competition of the Big Ten. You can have success in the Big West and West Coast without dealing with major egos of players like happens here. He also said from the beginning of his tenure at the Beach that recruiting would be much easier and his contact base was on the west coast. At one point, he didn't have any players that were from more than 45 minutes from campus. It seems as though he is more comfortable with the life and lifestyle, much happier, and a better coach because of it.
He was behind the eight ball here, but he may not have been successful even if he wasn't given these factors. Ironically, he was hired at Beach for the same reason he was here. Integrity in dealing with academics. It worked better on the court there than here. He has found his niche. Good for him.
I was watching a LBSU game on ESPN back in November, for parts of the first half I thought he has really developed into a decent coach, he seems to have learned a bit. By the end of the game they had gone back into the same mediocre half court defenses in terms of both scheme and effort that the Gophers always exhibited, I realised he would and could never win in the Big Ten. LBSU is very similiar to the Gopher teams, they are talented and play a good game on the offensive side of the ball, completely hopeless on the defensive side. They may win a few games against talented teams where his defense fools the oppposition but get in a league where they know the system and have time to prepare he's never going to be successfull. He would have to have superior talent to be successfull anywhere in my mind, which he probably has in his league.
Bad Gopher
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A person could write a short book on what went wrong with Dan at Minnesota. It would be nice to have more inside info, because there was a lot going on in there, especially with the likes of Humphries in the mix. Even from the outside, a person can make some observations and speculate a little. It's obvious to me that he made some missteps early, got behind the 8-ball as Holy Man puts it, and was never able to get the car out of the mud after that. Key to me is who he hired as assistant coaches - friends rather than the best coaches he could have found. In the way of speculation, he was never as effective after Maturi replaced Dienhart as AD. Your boss profoundly impacts how effective you can be.
imthewalrus
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It seems to me that he was given a LOT tougher situation to deal with than Tubby has been given. Loss of scholarships...loss of recruiting visits...the whole NASTY image of the haskin's scandal. And just how well has Tubby done here at Minnesota under MUCH better conditions? Start looking at the numbers of Big Ten wins vs. Big Ten losses for Tubby. What is wrong here?
Perhaps it IS the fact that macturi has been in charge...you said it...I won't disagree!
; 0 )
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Ware and Anderson a combined 10-29 as LBSU falls to K-State 77-60.
GopherJake
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As athletic and polished as they looked in the the first 2 games, they looked even more wild and undisciplined in the final. God-awful free throw shooting too. Couple more losses like that to unranked opponents and they'll be a top 4 seed.
alchemy2u
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Don't get me wrong, Monson is a great guy and I wish him the best, but his teams were unwatchable. Since when did we start carrying on about "moral victories" for some mid-level program on the west coast and in the same note critize our team for going 12-1?
imthewalrus
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The Big Ten games start now. We'll see what kind of "chemistry is brewing with this team once the cup-cakes stop stopping by the BARN and it becomes all Big Ten Teams all of the time. That will be the acid test, won't it alchemy2u...
Big Ten wins in large numbers are needed to make our team "watchable..." The last half of last season's Big Ten Schedule was pretty darn unwatchable, wouldn't you say alchemy2u?
Good luck Gophers and WIN a LOT of Big Ten games during the Big Ten Season!
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Big Ten wins in large numbers are needed to make our team "watchable..." The last half of last season's Big Ten Schedule was pretty darn unwatchable, wouldn't you say alchemy2u?
Good luck Gophers and WIN a LOT of Big Ten games during the Big Ten Season!
; 0 )
GopherHomer
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I seriously don't see much difference in the program now than when Monson was here. This isn't a pro or anti Tubby post...it's just an observation. I was totally behind the firing of Monson AND the hiring of Tubby. Outside of the short period where we were 'cheating' I think we've seen a pretty good sample of what to expect at this University.
Walrus, with all due respect, only the Good Lord Himself could have helped the Gophers in the last half of last year with all of the happenings beyond anyone's control.
imthewalrus
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Hell, Don, the happenings that Monson faced were larger in numbers of scholarships lost and sanctions and the beat-down of the fans, players and coaches during that LONG haskin's induced penalty phase that Monson had to deal with. Not even the Good Lord Himself cared about the Gophers Hoops Program after the NCAA brought the hammer down on this program following haskin's many sins.
Just WHAT has Tubby done during Big Ten Seasons during the time he has been here? They have NOT really been competetive within the Big Ten Conference. There was ONE pretty nice run in the Big Ten Tourney...but...other than winning a lot of home cupcake games to pad the record, there just haven't been enough Big Ten wins. And, those one and out NCAA Tourney appearances never really got the magic going.
Tubby just hasn't been producing. Injuries happen. Academic problems need to be dealt with long before the Big Ten Season is on the line. Life is tough. The athletic director has been NO WHERE near either the Men's or Women's Hoops coaches putting the pressure on to "get it done...or ELSE..." The Women's Team is something like 8-6 through the cupcake portion of their schedule. borton needs the heat turned up and the house needs to be cleaned following this Big Ten Season IF the results aren't there.
Let's look at ALL THINGS fairly here Dr. Don. Tubby has had things pretty nice during his stay here. He needs to PRODUCE for once in Big Ten Play. We have to rate him according to his Big Ten Record. He is most certainly closer to the bottom third than the top third of the Big Ten Conference...
Certainly, some stuff has happened...but...Monson had a hell of a lot of stuff to deal with here as well...
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Just WHAT has Tubby done during Big Ten Seasons during the time he has been here? They have NOT really been competetive within the Big Ten Conference. There was ONE pretty nice run in the Big Ten Tourney...but...other than winning a lot of home cupcake games to pad the record, there just haven't been enough Big Ten wins. And, those one and out NCAA Tourney appearances never really got the magic going.
Tubby just hasn't been producing. Injuries happen. Academic problems need to be dealt with long before the Big Ten Season is on the line. Life is tough. The athletic director has been NO WHERE near either the Men's or Women's Hoops coaches putting the pressure on to "get it done...or ELSE..." The Women's Team is something like 8-6 through the cupcake portion of their schedule. borton needs the heat turned up and the house needs to be cleaned following this Big Ten Season IF the results aren't there.
Let's look at ALL THINGS fairly here Dr. Don. Tubby has had things pretty nice during his stay here. He needs to PRODUCE for once in Big Ten Play. We have to rate him according to his Big Ten Record. He is most certainly closer to the bottom third than the top third of the Big Ten Conference...
Certainly, some stuff has happened...but...Monson had a hell of a lot of stuff to deal with here as well...
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