Let's talk about it: Tubby's rotation

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BigGopherFan

BigGopherFan

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Right when the offense starts clicking and the starters share the wealth -- **HORN** -- and in comes the second line. To me, it's frustrating. I understand he's experimenting and tweeking the rotation in these non-conference games, but this happened in the B1G season last year too. Thought?
 

His explanation is that it will keep both units fresh at the end of games. I can't stand it myself. Like you said, once the first unit starts getting in a flow, in comes five new guys and it takes them a couple minutes to get into it. It doesnt make sense, especially with the severe drop in talent and experience between the 2 units.
 

Honestly maverick should never see the floor.
Igraham and Oseneiks should only see the floor if there is serious foul trouble.
 


I've always found the "keeping units fresh" explanations hilarious. It's 40 total minutes of basketball, with TV breaks every 7 minutes and halftime. If you're not in shape enough to play hard for that amount of time, in those spurts, well I just don't know what to tell you. I get the occasional or whatever, but the idea that five players all need to have 10 minutes out of the game to stay fresh for the end just isn't right. Strategically they may need to play less, but as far as staying fresh, I just don't buy it.
 


Rosemountian said:
Honestly maverick should never see the floor.
Igraham and Oseneiks should only see the floor if there is serious foul trouble.
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I'm glad you will never be on the coaching staff of any of my favorite basketball teams, including my old high school's team. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.
 

Rosemountian said:
Honestly maverick should never see the floor.
Igraham and Oseneiks should only see the floor if there is serious foul trouble.
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I completely disagree with that. Oto is one of the only players that can stretch the floor for us. Mav was again solid tonight, I think that if Andre and Julian struggle in games, he will be a serviceable backup.
 

Oto, Andre and Austin could become honorable mention all-league players someday.
 

fej said:
I've always found the "keeping units fresh" explanations hilarious. It's 40 total minutes of basketball, with TV breaks every 7 minutes and halftime. If you're not in shape enough to play hard for that amount of time, in those spurts, well I just don't know what to tell you. I get the occasional or whatever, but the idea that five players all need to have 10 minutes out of the game to stay fresh for the end just isn't right. Strategically they may need to play less, but as far as staying fresh, I just don't buy it.
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Especially since they are all around 20 years old. Tubby should find eight guys (max) and play them.
 



Most coaches lengthen their benches in the OOC season to see who will be in the main 8 man rotation in the conference season.
 

I don't know why people are confused about this, Tubby has done this every year since he's been here. And it's not just during the OOC games either, during B10 play he still uses a 10-12 man rotation.
 

I was thinking about this tonight and I wonder if we'd see more development from our players if Tubby played a shorter rotation. I think it's possible, maybe even likely, that Julian Welch or Chip Armelin would improve much more if they got all the minutes that the other is currently getting. Sure that means that whoever doesn't play out of Julian or Chip likely wouldn't improve, but I am not sure either guy benefits from short minutes and 2-3 shots a game. The same goes for Joe, Oto, and Andre Ingram. If Tubby tightened the rotation, I think we'd see a couple guys step up and play better because they would get a true feel for the game. It's so much easier to shoot the ball well when 1. You are actually in the game long enough to get a feel for it and 2. Know that you are going to get more than 1-3 shots to make an impression.
 

thebarnsback said:
I don't know why people are confused about this, Tubby has done this every year since he's been here. And it's not just during the OOC games either, during B10 play he still uses a 10-12 man rotation.
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Tubby does shorten his bench in the Big Ten season. Go look at box scores. Using the Purdue game early in the Big Ten season. There were 9 players in the Box Score. Armelin played 4 minutes, and Mav played one. That means 195 minutes went to 7 players.

Purdue at Minnesota Jan 13, 2011
 



We have worn out our opponent 3 games in a row by keeping fresh legs. It's no coincidence we are pulling away late.
 

Gold Vision said:
We have worn out our opponent 3 games in a row by keeping fresh legs. It's no coincidence we are pulling away late.
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Agreed, and he also played his starters a little more tonight. I was getting a little nervous with Mbakwe getting 34 minutes and going to floor so much. If he gets injured, seasons over. Also I think Ralph gimped of the floor late vs. Fairfield.
 

The line change has to go. It has to go. I can't remember how many times our starting 5 had great momentum going last year and then were subbed out at the first TV timeout, killing any momentum we had. I've never seen a collegiate basketball sub in such a line change manner...anyone else?
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
The line change has to go. It has to go. I can't remember how many times our starting 5 had great momentum going last year and then were subbed out at the first TV timeout, killing any momentum we had. I've never seen a collegiate basketball sub in such a line change manner...anyone else?
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Just at Mariucci
 


I don't have a problem rotating a bunch of guys in the back court early on this season. There's no clear-cut starters and back-ups right now.
 

Could it be that Tubby is looking to the future? He's playing the guys that will be forced to play significant minutes next season.. all the while they're winning non-conference games, and gaining experience that can help us THIS SEASON. Start complaining when they're losing games they should win..

GopherHoopsFan
 

I agree that fresh legs have been the difference or at least a difference across 5 games. I mean, some of you want an 8 man rotation and others of you don't want to see Mav and Oto on the floor. These are mutally exclusive. Mav, Oto and Welch are your guys off the bench. (OK, Chip makes it 8.5.) That's just the way it is. And nobody plays 40 minutes anymore. You cannot play pressure defense for 40 minutes, I don't care if you're MJ. You cannot play pressure defense for 40 minutes, and the Gophers are not gonna win with their offense without a good on-ball pressure defense.
 

Rosemountian said:
Honestly maverick should never see the floor.
Igraham and Oseneiks should only see the floor if there is serious foul trouble.
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Ya, guy who is one of our better shooters shouldn't play. Serviceable PG shouldn't play either. Ingraham is a good guy to have, similar to Trev so when he goes in it's not like there is any matchup problems.
 

GopherHoopsFan said:
Could it be that Tubby is looking to the future? He's playing the guys that will be forced to play significant minutes next season.. all the while they're winning non-conference games, and gaining experience that can help us THIS SEASON. Start complaining when they're losing games they should win..

GopherHoopsFan
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Exactly
 

Players need rest

The poster who said players should be able to play 40 minutes without a rest obviously never played basketball. Clearly our fresh legs helped us in the first three preseason games.

I am extremely critical of Tubby, but I agree with him playing as many people as he can early in the season. Rodney with a whopping four points last night may play his way right off the floor. While Otto may prove to be someone who earns some playing time against some zone defenses.

I'm wasn't a big Ahamesi fan, but he is also playing his way into more minutes. Its no coincidence he is playing more than Welch, who seems to have trouble with lazy inbounds passes and trying to force the ball to the big men. I can't believe I'm saying this but Maverick has done nothing but improve since he has arrived and is currently the only point guard that keeps his head up the entire time he dribbles the ball. Yes watch the tape, both Dre and Welch are just not as comfortable with their ball handling. If Tubby didn't play all three early in the season, Maverick might not have gotten the minutes he deserves. I realize Dre is much more athletic so is a great option long term, but don't be surprised if Welch is the odd man out.

The only thing that I don't agree with is bringing all five in at once, but I expect that to change in close games.
 


Rosemountian said:
Honestly maverick should never see the floor.
Igraham and Oseneiks should only see the floor if there is serious foul trouble.
Click to expand...

I just saw this. Really? Oseneiks is easily the purest shooter on the team. Mav is easily the purest pg on the team. Maybe Dre gets there, but he is far from a pg at this point and Welch isn't as well from what I've seen. Mav and Oto are far from starting material, but we would be in big trouble without them this year. Right now I'd much rather see Mav bringing the ball up in a tight game. I'd much rather see Oto shooting a three than Williams in a tight game.
 

Big Ten Championship said:
The poster who said players should be able to play 40 minutes without a rest obviously never played basketball. Clearly our fresh legs helped us in the first three preseason games.

I am extremely critical of Tubby, but I agree with him playing as many people as he can early in the season. Rodney with a whopping four points last night may play his way right off the floor. While Otto may prove to be someone who earns some playing time against some zone defenses.

I'm wasn't a big Ahamesi fan, but he is also playing his way into more minutes. Its no coincidence he is playing more than Welch, who seems to have trouble with lazy inbounds passes and trying to force the ball to the big men. I can't believe I'm saying this but Maverick has done nothing but improve since he has arrived and is currently the only point guard that keeps his head up the entire time he dribbles the ball. Yes watch the tape, both Dre and Welch are just not as comfortable with their ball handling. If Tubby didn't play all three early in the season, Maverick might not have gotten the minutes he deserves. I realize Dre is much more athletic so is a great option long term, but don't be surprised if Welch is the odd man out.

The only thing that I don't agree with is bringing all five in at once, but I expect that to change in close games.
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Played plenty of basketball, thank you, and I'm not talking about playing 40 minutes straight. I'm talking about playing in maximum 7 minute spurts with halftime breaks after growing up your entire life playing 4-5 games in a day for tournaments. Yes, the defensive intensity is a lot less but to think that you need to play 12 guys and rotate your lineup massively to keep people fresh is ridiculous. Teams that rotate that many players in and say it's being done to keep fresh are usually just saying "we don't have any elite players".

Look at the really good teams in the NCAA, they going 10-12 with serious minutes going deep mostly? You get the rare exception, but 7-8 people should be able to handle a college game with no problem. Certainly from a fitness stand point. (Not to mention if we needed our "legs" at the end to close out the teams we're playing, we're going to be a hurting unit in the B1G)
 

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