Kyle Theret/ Mike Rallis

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GopherNation5

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Is it just me or do we need to find a new safety to replace these two guys. It seems like theret is constantly getting beat in pass coverage. He is a pretty solid tackler in the open field but he has got to be the slowest safety in the big 10. In rallis's case I think he is as good of caliber of a football player as your gonna find out of a walk on but he doesn't seem ready for d1 football right now. Was I the only person who was getting frustrated seeing these two out there tonight?
 

Yeah, I think that Theret was burnt on at least the first two TD's for sure. Nothing against these Theret and Rallis, but a few years from now these are the types of recruits that will be on the bench due to superior recruiting from Brewster. (I realize that Theret was a Brewster recruit, but that was a 3 week recruiting class).

Last year when Brew signed his great class, Tom Lemming said that it was a nice class, but it would take 3-4 of these classes to make us a force. I think we saw that tonight. We simply need more good players.

As a side note, anybody on this board that is wishing for Mason right now is high. We probably would've given up 70 with him yesterday. Kansas played in a conference with perhaps the best offenses in college football history; thus the 7-5 record. They would've been in top 2-3 in the Big Ten.
 

Theret is excellent within 15 yds of the LOS whether its run support or open field tackling. HE has a really good burst of speed in short ranges but he doesn't have the long speed in pass coverage and he's been exposed there a few times. Rallis seems like a very athletic LB they're playing at safety for some reason. I was hoping that Dandridge would be a backup S but they like Rallis better. I hope he moces to his mroe natural spot next year
 

I'm guessing Kim Royston pushes for playing time next year at that spot.
 

Theret is a huge meathead who will not be a starter next year. Solid in the run, but puts his head down and misses a lot of tackles. Liability in coverage. Royston immediately usurps him.
 


As a side note, anybody on this board that is wishing for Mason right now is high. We probably would've given up 70 with him yesterday. Kansas played in a conference with perhaps the best offenses in college football history; thus the 7-5 record. They would've been in top 2-3 in the Big Ten.[/QUOTE]

The Big 12 and SEC should invite USC to join them in the "Almost Pro" conference. From the looks of the post-season, it's obvious those two conferences are head-and-shoulders above everyone else and it really isn't even close.
 

Kind of agree with Oleboy. I think Rallis would work well at a LB spot.
 

A lot of great football minds here. Theret was in man-to-man coverage with some top-shelf receivers. Is that his fault? He's a FS. FS do not cover top receivers man-to-man. I blame Roof and his lazy scheme for 90% of the problems last night. The Gopher zone was easy to spot pre-snap, and a veteran QB had a field day. Just what you'd expect. They didn't mix up coverages and they didn't disguise them well. Is a 3-4 defense the answer to a spread offense? No. Not when 2 of your LB (Davis & Hightower) cannot play in space. With that alignment, you have no choice but to play zone....and get picked apart. I would have rather seen a 4-man front, 1-2 LB and extra corners on the field. A 4-2-5 would have been much more versatile. Don't blame the safeties.
 

Actually you're 100$ wrong. They constantly disguised coverages and shifted before the snap. The problem was we couldn't get enough pressure and we couldn't cover them. Our LBs didn't disrupt the passing lanes and our CBs and Safeties were poor in coverage. The problem was personel. Our LBs and safeties are too slow out there. Theret is good near the line, Rallis should be an LB, and Campbell and Triplett aren't good in pass coverage. We need an infusion of speed in the middle of the field and off the edges
 



One receiver went for 200 another went for 100. There was a good mixture of straight man and zone.

Yup safeties were our problem. They might have only gone for 150 and 75. :rolleyes:
 

Yes, if Royston doesn't start next year I'm discouraged. Theret should be a great special teams players and a back up at Safety. Do people not realize why were were recruiting Leon?

Rallis played Safety this year because we needed a second string safety. How screwed would we have been at safety if we didn't have Theret from the 2007 class and had to rely on somebody from 2005-2006 recruiting classes to fill that spot? I think Rallis will bulk up and move to OLB next year to compete for Hightower's spot.
 

They mixed up their coverages? It's pretty easy to tell what you're going to get when the personnel grouping is the same. We had 4 LB and 2 S out there the whole game. They can mix up their coverage all they want, but with that grouping, it's going to be a mis-match the entire game. On one of the TDs they went 3-wide to the left, with Meier on the inside. That puts the S in man-to-man if that's what you're running. When Kansas went 5-wide, the Gophers only shot would have been a zone when they're trying to cover them with a total of 2 CB. Kansas could find the match-ups they wanted all night with the personnel grouping we were running. When teams spread you out, you'd better mix in some guys with coverage skill or it's not going to happen. We didn't. We got crushed. Don't blame the S. Don't even blame the LBs that can't cover. They should never have been in that position.
 

It's not that we're blaming the safeties for the rough showing by the defense yesterday. I was just trying to make the point that theret and rallis need to be replaced by others next year because they just truly aren't the caliber of players that should be starting for a big 10 team IMO.
 



The first few touchdowns we gave up this year were because Theret simply blew the coverage. It usually appears to be a mental thing with him, which is frustrating.
 


Thanks for making his point

After arguing a positions of coaching error or scheme as the problem - "But with this grouping it's going to be a mismatch the entire game." is concenting that it is a personnel problem.

Who was on the bench last night that you would have played? with trips up either Meier or their real stud was going to be isolated with whomever you left over there. Who would have that been off the bench available last night?

tpbeight said:
They mixed up their coverages? It's pretty easy to tell what you're going to get when the personnel grouping is the same. We had 4 LB and 2 S out there the whole game. They can mix up their coverage all they want, but with that grouping, it's going to be a mis-match the entire game. On one of the TDs they went 3-wide to the left, with Meier on the inside. That puts the S in man-to-man if that's what you're running. When Kansas went 5-wide, the Gophers only shot would have been a zone when they're trying to cover them with a total of 2 CB. Kansas could find the match-ups they wanted all night with the personnel grouping we were running. When teams spread you out, you'd better mix in some guys with coverage skill or it's not going to happen. We didn't. We got crushed. Don't blame the S. Don't even blame the LBs that can't cover. They should never have been in that position.
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May not have the best talent but has heart. If you can't pressure the quarterback, a 5 star safety looks like crap. The kid plays his ass off and does not deserve to be called names, none of the players do. Some of the players read this board.
 

Don't we have any other CBs on the roster? Aren't CBs traditionally more adept at covering receivers in man-on-man situations? Do we really want 4 LB and 2 S as part of our back end against a spread team? With the personnel we had out there last night, we should have never been in anything but zone coverage. We had no chance to cover KU man-to-man. I'm questioning the coaches there. They had time to come up with something a little more creative.
 

Studwell55 said:
The first few touchdowns we gave up this year were because Theret simply blew the coverage. It usually appears to be a mental thing with him, which is frustrating.
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Actually it was Collado, our nickel back, which is why the Gophers didn't move in to a nickel back coverage to defend against the spread.
 

2008 All-Big Ten Conference Football Team HONORABLE MENTION: MINNESOTA: Kyle Theret, Adam Weber

Apparently Kyle wasn't the best in the big ten, but to say he isn't a Big Ten safety is contrary to the accolade he won. In fact he is sitting with pretty good company imo. Could he be replaced, maybe. It seems like he needs to continue to get better to play for Brewster. I have no doubt that he will work his butt off for the Gophers, and therefore I have my doubts about someone replacing him.
 

tpbeight hit the nail on the head. Why are we in 4-3 and 3-4 defense against 3 and 4, or 5 receiver sets? This is what ohio st. did against florida a few years ago, it worked great for them! Against a tradional team, and its 3rd and long, they bring in extra receivers and the defense will switch to a nickel or dime. Why didnt we play more nickel or dime? Again, the db's aren't great but I think the bigger issue is the lack of a pass rush. They doubled vandesteeg and only Mckinnley was able to do anything.
 

monk10 said:
2008 All-Big Ten Conference Football Team HONORABLE MENTION: MINNESOTA: Kyle Theret, Adam Weber

Apparently Kyle wasn't the best in the big ten, but to say he isn't a Big Ten safety is contrary to the accolade he won. In fact he is sitting with pretty good company imo. Could he be replaced, maybe. It seems like he needs to continue to get better to play for Brewster. I have no doubt that he will work his butt off for the Gophers, and therefore I have my doubts about someone replacing him.
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It always seemed strange to me how Theret was honorable mention and Brock did not make it. I'm curious if any fan at any point in the season thought that Theret was a better safety than Brock.

What I have noticed from watching the bowls this season is how bad the Big 10 QB's and WR's were compared to the rest of the country. To me, Illinois and PSU had the best QB/WR corp combination in the conference. We didn't play PSU and despite beating Illinois, Juice Williams set a record for passing yardage against us with something like 450 yards. The passing offense of some of the other teams in the conference were horrible: Michigan State, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Indiana. Purdue and Northwestern were very mediocre and OSU was a mediocre passing threat that could qualify as average passing attack only because they were so good at running that they could throw play action over the top.

In that type of a conference, Kyle Theret didn't get lit up too often. However, against the good passing offenses he was beat consistently. Kansas isolated him and beat him when he either made a bad read (first TD) or for being too slow to cover a WR in man-to-man coverage (2nd TD & the Meier to Briscoe TD was a combo of beating Sherels for attacking the bubble screen and beating Theret for not having the speed to get over the top). To me Theret is clearly better as a SS where he can come up and help in run support because he doesn't have the speed or ball skills to play FS against a good passing offense. The Gophers would be better off with a FS that can freelance and ballhawk in coverage and moving Theret to SS where he would back up Brock this year and probably start in 2010 unless Lewis or Watkins is an absolute stud.
 

march madness said:
tpbeight hit the nail on the head. Why are we in 4-3 and 3-4 defense against 3 and 4, or 5 receiver sets? This is what ohio st. did against florida a few years ago, it worked great for them! Against a tradional team, and its 3rd and long, they bring in extra receivers and the defense will switch to a nickel or dime. Why didnt we play more nickel or dime? Again, the db's aren't great but I think the bigger issue is the lack of a pass rush. They doubled vandesteeg and only Mckinnley was able to do anything.
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With the 3-4 we were still rushing 4 but one of them would be a LB like Lawrence or Campbell instead of having 2 DT's & 2 DE's rushing. Off the top of my head McKinley had 2 sacks and WVDS had 1 sack which isn't too bad. Reesing had pressure on other plays too but he found running lanes and scrambled. Kansas was throwing too quickly on a lot of plays that it didn't matter what we were doing for rushing because we weren't going to get to the QB. My general thoughts with the 3-4 vs. the nickel is that the Gophers preferred to have Davis in there instead of Collado.
 

grunkiejr said:
It always seemed strange to me how Theret was honorable mention and Brock did not make it. I'm curious if any fan at any point in the season thought that Theret was a better safety than Brock.

What I have noticed from watching the bowls this season is how bad the Big 10 QB's and WR's were compared to the rest of the country. To me, Illinois and PSU had the best QB/WR corp combination in the conference. We didn't play PSU and despite beating Illinois, Juice Williams set a record for passing yardage against us with something like 450 yards. The passing offense of some of the other teams in the conference were horrible: Michigan State, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Indiana. Purdue and Northwestern were very mediocre and OSU was a mediocre passing threat that could qualify as average passing attack only because they were so good at running that they could throw play action over the top.

In that type of a conference, Kyle Theret didn't get lit up too often. However, against the good passing offenses he was beat consistently. Kansas isolated him and beat him when he either made a bad read (first TD) or for being too slow to cover a WR in man-to-man coverage (2nd TD & the Meier to Briscoe TD was a combo of beating Sherels for attacking the bubble screen and beating Theret for not having the speed to get over the top). To me Theret is clearly better as a SS where he can come up and help in run support because he doesn't have the speed or ball skills to play FS against a good passing offense. The Gophers would be better off with a FS that can freelance and ballhawk in coverage and moving Theret to SS where he would back up Brock this year and probably start in 2010 unless Lewis or Watkins is an absolute stud.
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The major thing I noticed this bowl season is that when we play QB's they have their career day sitting comfortable in a pocket picking and choosing who they throw to and when they want to throw. The occasional time we do put pressure on the qb they are able to scramble and either run or make a big play down field. You could pick any one of the four secondary and make a case against them like you are trying to railroad Theret into a backup position. Sherels got abused badly in the bowl game, and I don't see people calling for his starting job. This same thing happened last year with the hyping of Collado and the trashing of Theret.

Like I said earlier it is possible Theret loses his job, but to make an automatic with all these depth projections seems silly at best. We have a guy who couldn't start on another Big Ten team now being picked over a guy who was Honorable Mention Big Ten. Don't you think that is pretty ridiculous?
 

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