Kragthorpe Fired

[gophergrad]

Came in as the kill shot hire at Louisville and it just never worked out. Not a huge surprise. A lot of the same names getting thrown around as people have mentioned here if Brewster were to be canned. Although I haven't heard any talk that Louisville's in talks with Tony Dungy

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4695416

 

[Gold Rush]

I guess a 15-21 three year record isn't good enough for the University of Louisville!!

Kragthorpe had been mentioned as a replacement up here for Glen Mason and I think
Louisville was afraid someone would come in and take him so they signed him before
they really evaluated a lot of people.

Kragthorpe had done a pretty good job at the University of Tulsa and shows that just
because someone does well at one of the lesser schools, it does not necessarily
translate to victories at a higher level. He took a team that had been playing on
New Year's Day and really crashed it onto the rocks. I have a guy who played for
their football team under John L. Smith at my work and he just hates the guy. He was
hoping they would lose just so they could get him out of there.

Maybe this time they will evaluate the candidates a little better and take a little time to
come up with the best coach possible. They can't have Brewster though -- he's OUR guy!!

 

[Nine]

how could he fail?

How in the world could he fail?

He had coordinator and head coaching experience. Strange.

 

[koppco1]

Kragthorpe took a program that was rolling and turned it into a pile of crap in three years.

 

[Jwill535]

Petrino left that program in shambles and let the players do what they wanted. When Kragthorpe got there, IIRC he had 20-30 players dismissed or that left the program.

Two players specifically I remember being CJ Peake and Dale Martin. Peake went there because it "was more fun". Peake lasted 2 years and Martin quit 4-5 games into his first year.

 

[Schnoodler]

Kind of makes you wonder about michigan.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Minnesota is no worse than they were 3 years ago, so you can't fire the coach. Michigan might take a mulligan and go after Harbaugh though.

 

[Gold Rush]

It isn't at all unusual when a coach leaves to see several players leave
right after the coach is gone. If Brewster were to leave or get fired, we would probably see
some of the guys he recruited leave, too - that is just the way it usually goes.
That is another reason why I don't think that firing Brewster at this point
would be a good idea.

RichRod gets one more year. They will lose him if he has another subpar year.
As far as the Gophers go, if Brewster doesn't pick it up next year, I think his
recruiting will start to fall off because the recruits will start losing faith that
he is going to get it done here. Take a look at Illinois and their recruiting, for
a good example on that. If Brewster doesn't recruit well, then he will be in big
trouble because that is the biggest thing that he brings to the table. I guess
with the jury still out on Brewster we can say at least say
we didn't hire Kragthorpe!!!

 

[Gold Rush]

Minnesota is no worse than they were 3 years ago, so you can't fire the coach. Michigan might take a mulligan and go after Harbaugh though.

I would say the Gophers offense is not just worse, but significantly worse now than when Mason was fired.

However, I do think their defense is better and their overall talent level is better so that is a
definite plus.

 

[charlesbenjamin7]

Minnesota is no worse than they were 3 years ago, so you can't fire the coach. Michigan might take a mulligan and go after Harbaugh though.

That is just not true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[50PoundHead]

Petrino strikes me as kind of a goof. One of those guys for whom lightning strikes in one place and then completely goes away.

 

[RedPoo]

That is just not true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Based on what??????????????
In 2006, the Gopher's had the same regular season record as this team (6-6), though with an easier schedule. They will likely even go to the same bowl.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that a big part of the backlash against this team is the tendency of casual/less observant fans to fixate on the offense. Mason's teams could move the ball and put up points in bunches. Everyone just assumes those teams were better than we've been the past 2 years, but that's just demonstrably NOT TRUE. 6-6 is 6-6, regardless of how you get there. The biggest differences between Mason's career and what we can extrapolate of Brewster's are:

1- Mason had a great offense, some atrocious defense and special teams, and an unbelievable capacity for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. They did win some games against lesser opponents in very impressive ways.
Brewster's team is basically the polar opposite. They don't move the ball with consistency, but they seem able to come through at the end of tight games, often with big special teams plays and turnovers. When they win, it's often ugly.

2- Brewster has some talent in the pipeline. Other than that, his record is basically program-average over the last couple decades.

 

[koppco1]

Based on what??????????????
In 2006, the Gopher's had the same regular season record as this team (6-6), though with an easier schedule. They will likely even go to the same bowl.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that a big part of the backlash against this team is the tendency of casual/less observant fans to fixate on the offense. Mason's teams could move the ball and put up points in bunches. Everyone just assumes those teams were better than we've been the past 2 years, but that's just demonstrably NOT TRUE. 6-6 is 6-6, regardless of how you get there. The biggest differences between Mason's career and what we can extrapolate of Brewster's are:

1- Mason had a great offense, some atrocious defense and special teams, and an unbelievable capacity for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. They did win some games against lesser opponents in very impressive ways.
Brewster's team is basically the polar opposite. They don't move the ball with consistency, but they seem able to come through at the end of tight games, often with big special teams plays and turnovers. When they win, it's often ugly.

2- Brewster has some talent in the pipeline. Other than that, his record is basically program-average over the last couple decades.

+100 Great post!

 

[charlesbenjamin7]

Based on what??????????????
In 2006, the Gopher's had the same regular season record as this team (6-6), though with an easier schedule. They will likely even go to the same bowl.

I love how you guys can't keep yourselves from wanting to revise history. It's sad.

The year that Mason got fired = .684 win percentage of opponents (before the Bowls)
This year = .622

 

[charlesbenjamin7]

Based on what??????????????

2- Brewster has some talent in the pipeline. Other than that, his record is basically program-average over the last couple decades.

Another lie:

Tim Brewster win percentage = .378
Glen Mason = .504

Huge difference!

 

[Doc1001]

CharlesBenjamin

You have a private message. Hope you have time to respond. Thanks.

 

[achiever]

Another lie:

Tim Brewster win percentage = .378
Glen Mason = .504

Huge difference!

He also had ten years compared to three. But don't let the sample size detour you from making generalized statements.

The program is no worse off now than when mason was here. In fact, it is probably better off now.

 

[koppco1]

I love how you guys can't keep yourselves from wanting to revise history. It's sad.

The year that Mason got fired = .684 win percentage of opponents (before the Bowls)
This year = .622

Hey Glen, er Charles, the statistical difference above is meaningless to the point of being absurd. Win percentages of opponents means very little unless you look at every single opponent your opponent played too (i.e. maybe all of your opponents played a very soft schedule). This is especially true when you note that the non-conference schedule in 2006 included the powerhouses of Kent State, Temple, and NDSU. Also, your comment on "revising history" is particularly funny coming from you. Your hate for all things Brewster related borders on Pantherhawk-like insanity. A team that was 6-6 in 2006 is definitely no better than a team that is 6-6 in 2009 (and for that matter probably worse if like me you saw that Insight Bowl implosion in person).

 

[charlesbenjamin7]

Hey Glen, er Charles, the statistical difference above is meaningless to the point of being absurd. Win percentages of opponents means very little unless you look at every single opponent your opponent played too (i.e. maybe all of your opponents played a very soft schedule). This is especially true when you note that the non-conference schedule in 2006 included the powerhouses of Kent State, Temple, and NDSU. Also, your comment on "revising history" is particularly funny coming from you. Your hate for all things Brewster related borders on Pantherhawk-like insanity. A team that was 6-6 in 2006 is definitely no better than a team that is 6-6 in 2009 (and for that matter probably worse if like me you saw that Insight Bowl implosion in person).

Opponent of your opponent? Are freaking kidding me?

The original poster said, "In 2006, the Gopher's had the same regular season record as this team (6-6), though with an easier schedule." Quite simply: That is false and the statistics prove it.

 

[charlesbenjamin7]

Based on what??????????????


1- Mason had a great offense, some atrocious defense and special teams, and an unbelievable capacity for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. They did win some games against lesser opponents in very impressive ways. Brewster's team is basically the polar opposite.

QUOTE]


Gross over-exaggeration #3: The defense under Brewster is not terribly better as you proclaim. I think that some people might that impression because they remember the unfortunate late game disappointments. However, Brewster’s defenses are statistically no better than Mason’s.

Note: I got this data from Rivals, which only goes back to 2003.

Under Brewster:

2009
6th PPG
6th YPG

2008
6th PPG
10th YPG

2007
11th PPG
11th YPG



Under Mason:

2006
6th PPG
10 YPG

2005
7th PPG
5th YPG

2004
7th PPG
9th YPG

2003
6th PPG
5th YPG

 

[PigAxeJug]

Opponent of your opponent? Are freaking kidding me?

The original poster said, "In 2006, the Gopher's had the same regular season record as this team (6-6), though with an easier schedule." Quite simply: That is false and the statistics prove it.

dumb. Maybe the mac teams may have better records and win % then teama like syracuse or air force, but i have no doubt syracuse or air force beats 80-90% of mac teams

 

[charlesbenjamin7]

dumb. Maybe the mac teams may have better records and win % then teama like syracuse or air force, but i have no doubt syracuse or air force beats 80-90% of mac teams

Dumb?
Statistics are objective measures. I am sure that some Brewster fans might argue that 2 + 2 ≠ 4. The schedule in 2006 was OBJECTIVELY tougher than this year. You would be DUMB to argue otherwise.

 

[60 Cent]

dumb. Maybe the mac teams may have better records and win % then teama like syracuse or air force, but i have no doubt syracuse or air force beats 80-90% of mac teams

4-8 Syracuse beat 3-9 Akron 28-14.

Air Force, despite being "just" 7-5 lost four games by a TD or less. Their other three losses were TCU (3), at Navy (3), and at Utah (7). Their only bad loss was at BYU.

Air Force could have easily been 10-2 (losing to TCU and BYU).

 

[RedPoo]

Dumb?
Statistics are objective measures. I am sure that some Brewster fans might argue that 2 + 2 ≠ 4. The schedule in 2006 was OBJECTIVELY tougher than this year. You would be DUMB to argue otherwise.

-Yes, but win percentage of opponents is NOT a measure of quality of opponents. It's a measure of win percentage. The football team of my high school was undefeated this year...does that make them better than Ohio State?
You have to look at Strength of Schedule measures. I think the Gophs are something like 20th this season. If you want to find out what they were Mason's last year, be my guest. Might be interesting.

-I never said Brew's defenses are great. I said they find ways to win ugly/tight games. Your record is your record. It doesn't matter how you get there.

-Counting Brewster's first-season record against him isn't fair. It was ugly, for sure, and maybe Mason would have won 4 games instead of one. But that year was about rebuilding more than anything else, and even if Jesus was our coach, we weren't going to make a breakthrough bowl that season with the talent we had.

 

[50PoundHead]

Statistics are objective but they are earned within a subjective environment. Every game unfolds differently and game patterns may make the earning of various statistics misleading.

 

[McGopherFan]

Thank You!

He also had ten years compared to three. But don't let the sample size detour you from making generalized statements.

The program is no worse off now than when mason was here. In fact, it is probably better off now.