KJ Maye

Donate To GopherHole
F

forestlaker

Member
Joined
May 4, 2009
Messages
205
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Sorry if already posted but why was he missing from the bowl game?
 

forestlaker said:
Sorry if already posted but why was he missing from the bowl game?
Click to expand...

I was wondering the same thing, especially with the lack of depth we had at WR going in.

He was at the bowl game, I saw him on kickoff return.
 

Same with Brandon Green. Did he make the field? Was he healthy?
 




tjgopher said:
Yes, that's exactly what I said.

But, why wasn't he playing WR as he had done in every single game this year? That is the question, especially given we were light there.
Click to expand...
I would guess it had something to do with the gameplan. A vast majority of the formations were multiple TE or H-back sets. I don't recall a lot of sets where they used a slot receiver. When they used a back in motion across the formation, it was #31 (Cole Banham) or Rodrick Williams. They've used Maye in that role earlier in the season though, so I'm not sure why he wasn't in there.
 

Not going to jump on Kill too much, but the disappearance of Maye is frustrating to an extent (unless he's injured). I think this is why it is very important to go slowly when burning red-shirts. If a freshman isn't going to be playing at the end of a season, why should he be playing at the beginning of the season? There's probably more to this and my comments may be ill-informed, but I've always erred on the side of caution when it comes to things like this.
 

50PoundHead said:
Not going to jump on Kill too much, but the disappearance of Maye is frustrating to an extent (unless he's injured). I think this is why it is very important to go slowly when burning red-shirts. If a freshman isn't going to be playing at the end of a season, why should he be playing at the beginning of the season? There's probably more to this and my comments may be ill-informed, but I've always erred on the side of caution when it comes to things like this.
Click to expand...

He was playing, it's not like the guy got no time. But also, it's hard to just simply predict a guy won't in a late season game when he's killing it in practice and contributing early on. I think Kill saw him as an instant impact. Remember, before this season, it was hard to tell what we had. The backfield wasn't exactly proven, and the receiving crew was a huge question mark (still is) so why not try to get him on the field when you really lack impact guys. He may not have had as much impact as he or we hoped, but he did make some plays this year, it wasn't a complete waste.

I'm guessing, with the team we got in the bowl game, we knew we had to pound it out a lot and keep their offense off the field. Things would have probably been different had we played a team where spreading the field a little bit would have been beneficial. Not sure what team that would be, but Tech wasn't it.
 

What did Maye do to earn additional playing time? I wouldn't trade Williams for Maye right now, that's for sure. I hope Maye develops, but he didn't show me much of anything when he was playing. That's not to say he won't be good; just often a reality for a freshman, particularly one as undersized as he is.

Not sure why Banham was playing instead of Maye in the bowl game, but again, it was as irrelevant as Maye had been for most of the year.

Again, not a rip on Maye, just a fact.
 



50PoundHead said:
Not going to jump on Kill too much, but the disappearance of Maye is frustrating to an extent (unless he's injured). I think this is why it is very important to go slowly when burning red-shirts. If a freshman isn't going to be playing at the end of a season, why should he be playing at the beginning of the season? There's probably more to this and my comments may be ill-informed, but I've always erred on the side of caution when it comes to things like this.
Click to expand...

Maye contributed and played a lot this year. As a coach you gameplan to give you the best chance of victory and sometimes certain positions/players get de-emphasized in that. Maye hasn't exactly lit it up this year where you HAVE to get him some touches each game either.
 

TCF=UnitedWeStand said:
What did Maye do to earn additional playing time? I wouldn't trade Williams for Maye right now, that's for sure. I hope Maye develops, but he didn't show me much of anything when he was playing. That's not to say he won't be good; just often a reality for a freshman, particularly one as undersized as he is.

Not sure why Banham was playing instead of Maye in the bowl game, but again, it was as irrelevant as Maye had been for most of the year.

Again, not a rip on Maye, just a fact.
Click to expand...

You're making my point. If a guy is looking like he's going to be irrelevant, why burn the red-shirt? I think the kid has some talent, but it takes some time for these kids to fit into college-level schemes. Unless Marcus Jones' knee injury totally set him back, I don't see why Jones wasn't in the sets that featured Maye.
 

But I don't think they thought he was going to be irrelevant. I just think they expected more of Maye based upon fall practice, but once the games started, didn't see the production they were hoping for (I didn't see it either). But, after you've played him a game, there are no do-overs, so, to your point, they had to play him - we've spent the red-shirt, lets play him and see if he develops. My sense (which means nothing), is that they got to the point where they just felt somebody else (in the case of the bowl game, Banham), gave them a better chance to produce right now.
 

TCF=UnitedWeStand said:
But I don't think they thought he was going to be irrelevant. I just think they expected more of Maye based upon fall practice, but once the games started, didn't see the production they were hoping for (I didn't see it either). But, after you've played him a game, there are no do-overs, so, to your point, they had to play him - we've spent the red-shirt, lets play him and see if he develops. My sense (which means nothing), is that they got to the point where they just felt somebody else (in the case of the bowl game, Banham), gave them a better chance to produce right now.
Click to expand...

But that's why you don't pull a red-shirt until you have more information. There are a lot of guys who look great in practice who can't make it translate to game situations. My guess is the temptation is great when the coaching staff sees a freshman lighting it up in fall practice. But that's why a balanced approach needs to be taken. One thing I've noticed about Kill (and I'm not saying he's wrong) is that he is pretty impulsive in a lot of his decision-making. If he wants to build the program for the long haul, he's going to have to slow down a bit (at least in my estimation, but as I'm not paying him, he can do whatever he wants).
 



50PoundHead said:
But that's why you don't pull a red-shirt until you have more information. There are a lot of guys who look great in practice who can't make it translate to game situations. My guess is the temptation is great when the coaching staff sees a freshman lighting it up in fall practice. But that's why a balanced approach needs to be taken. One thing I've noticed about Kill (and I'm not saying he's wrong) is that he is pretty impulsive in a lot of his decision-making. If he wants to build the program for the long haul, he's going to have to slow down a bit (at least in my estimation, but as I'm not paying him, he can do whatever he wants).
Click to expand...

Where would you get more info besides fall practice?
 

badgergopher said:
Where would you get more info besides fall practice?
Click to expand...

Practices early in the regular season. I just think Kill is too impatient on this matter. Again, if he intends on building the team for the long haul, I think he should be more judicious in how he proceeds on the red-shirt decisions. He himself said this was a building project from the "bottom up" and that he'd have to lay the foundation first. I don't think burning Maye's red-shirt threatens to erode what Kill has done as he's probably never going to be a true every-down impact player, but I would have gladly not gone "bowling" this year if it ensured more lasting progress down the line. I'm probably in a minority there.
 

50PoundHead said:
But that's why you don't pull a red-shirt until you have more information. There are a lot of guys who look great in practice who can't make it translate to game situations. My guess is the temptation is great when the coaching staff sees a freshman lighting it up in fall practice. But that's why a balanced approach needs to be taken. One thing I've noticed about Kill (and I'm not saying he's wrong) is that he is pretty impulsive in a lot of his decision-making. If he wants to build the program for the long haul, he's going to have to slow down a bit (at least in my estimation, but as I'm not paying him, he can do whatever he wants).
Click to expand...

It has been discussed here in relation to many players but in general I think fans spend a lot more time worrying about red-shirts than coaches. All things being equal if they can save the year they will but when they look at their players and evaluate who they feel can help the team win, if they think a true freshamn is good enough to be in the rotation he will be.

Coaches know their butt is on the line year in and year out. They are not going to worry about what the roster looks 5 years from now if they think a guy can help them win this year. Sometimes this will lead to a guy playing before he is ready and not having the impact the coaches expect but that just comes with the territory.
 

50PoundHead said:
Practices early in the regular season. I just think Kill is too impatient on this matter. Again, if he intends on building the team for the long haul, I think he should be more judicious in how he proceeds on the red-shirt decisions. He himself said this was a building project from the "bottom up" and that he'd have to lay the foundation first. I don't think burning Maye's red-shirt threatens to erode what Kill has done as he's probably never going to be a true every-down impact player, but I would have gladly not gone "bowling" this year if it ensured more lasting progress down the line. I'm probably in a minority there.
Click to expand...

By how important those extra 15 practices are made out to be, I think making any bowl helps ensure that progress down the line.
 

50PoundHead said:
But that's why you don't pull a red-shirt until you have more information. There are a lot of guys who look great in practice who can't make it translate to game situations. My guess is the temptation is great when the coaching staff sees a freshman lighting it up in fall practice. But that's why a balanced approach needs to be taken. One thing I've noticed about Kill (and I'm not saying he's wrong) is that he is pretty impulsive in a lot of his decision-making. If he wants to build the program for the long haul, he's going to have to slow down a bit (at least in my estimation, but as I'm not paying him, he can do whatever he wants).
Click to expand...

Of the returning running backs, who else was he going to play? Besides Kirkwood and Gillum, the non-freshmen options were Banham, Wright, and Cobb. Based upon how the season played out, for whatever reason, none of these three saw hardly any playing time outside of special teams. Thus, it was inevitable that one of the freshmen was going to play. At the start of the season, seeing as how we had Kirkwood and Gillum (both similar backs), I'm guessing the thinking was that Maye was the best "change-up/speed" option. When he wasn't productive, and neither was Gillum, it seems the coaches realized, "well, crap - we need to play our best guys", which so happened to be Williams and Kirkwood, and based upon what I saw, it wasn't even close - those were definitely our best two running backs.

If we didn't have an opportunity to recruit new players every year, I would be more concerned about Maye, but seeing that we have Kirkwood and Williams back next year, Edwards coming in (along with potentially at least one more - two more RBs are apparently visiting in January), and assuming Cobb figures things out (and JoJuan Harper was redshirted), I think we'll have good competition for Maye to do what he needs to do to get on the field. I don't foresee him missing out on an extra year costing us a season.

And we are redshirting 20+ players this year. Once we get our classes balanced, I would bet that our precentage of redshirts will increase (I would think the goal would be to redshirt 80%-85% of them).
 

I realize the O skill positions were looking thin but thought that's what the JUCOs were for. Fruechte at WR and Gillum at RB. In addition to them, Kill burned the shirts of McDonald, Harbison (though he got it back), Maye and Williams which is a very high number even for a rebuilding project. 50Pound's point was that they could have waited at least until they saw how the JUCO/walkon/transfer (Barker and Engel) guys were panning out before burning several shirts.
 

I get it, I just don't have a problem with it at this point. If we're burning the redshirts of eight, nine guys in two years, then I'll have an issue.
 



People do seem to have the impression that Kill is red shirting more guys then the average coach so he can have more time to develop players. Not saying it's a good thing or bad thing, but only like 1/3 of last years class red shirted. I guess I don't have information on other teams, but this doesn't seem like a high amount to me.
 

btowngopher said:
People do seem to have the impression that Kill is red shirting more guys then the average coach so he can have more time to develop players. Not saying it's a good thing or bad thing, but only like 1/3 of last years class red shirted. I guess I don't have information on other teams, but this doesn't seem like a high amount to me.
Click to expand...

I think most people are thinking the opposite. I haven't heard anyone talk about Kill redshirting a lot of players but I've heard a lot of complaints about him "wasting" redshirts.
 

I don't understand the issue with Maye's redshirt, this guy has played quite a bit all season. This isn't a DaJon McKnight situation, he played quite a bit ALL SEASON.
 



I agree this isn't a D'jon McKnight situation. Maye played a lot and contributed so it's not like they simply put him in the first game or had him solely play special teams or waste him in that way. It's pretty obvious that Gillum, for all the hubbub, didn't turn out to be the guy they thought he was.

Kill gets to make these decisions and I don't begrudge him that, but I don't really buy the "his butt is on the line" business. That's why his contract is as long as it is. And as for the 15 extra practices, sure they were helpful, but if we take a step back next year, don't make a bowl and things start to swirl as a result, those practices won't mean diddly-squat. Kill's been the guy urging patience (and I'm old and have been a fan for over 50 years so believe me I'm patient) and he looks like the one who is being the most impulsive.

I agree that this whole issue is a tempest in a teapot, but, again, Kill has been talking long haul and then is making a lot of decisions that seem to go against that mantra.
 


50PoundHead said:
I agree this isn't a D'jon McKnight situation. Maye played a lot and contributed so it's not like they simply put him in the first game or had him solely play special teams or waste him in that way. It's pretty obvious that Gillum, for all the hubbub, didn't turn out to be the guy they thought he was.

Kill gets to make these decisions and I don't begrudge him that, but I don't really buy the "his butt is on the line" business. That's why his contract is as long as it is. And as for the 15 extra practices, sure they were helpful, but if we take a step back next year, don't make a bowl and things start to swirl as a result, those practices won't mean diddly-squat. Kill's been the guy urging patience (and I'm old and have been a fan for over 50 years so believe me I'm patient) and he looks like the one who is being the most impulsive.

I agree that this whole issue is a tempest in a teapot, but, again, Kill has been talking long haul and then is making a lot of decisions that seem to go against that mantra.
Click to expand...

I don't really think it is an either/or situation. You can burn redshirts but still be playing for the future. Even if you believe your best year might not be until 2014 you still want to win now and want to play the guys that give you the best shot of getting wins now. I still contend that most coaches don't spend a lot of time looking 5 years down the road because there is no guarantee they will still be at the school, they look a year or two into the future and project based on what they can reasonably control. With injuries, transfers, better players being recruiting, guys flaming out, there are too many variables to look all that far ahead.

Kill may have a 7 year contract but that doesn't mean he is guaranteed to be here for 7 years. Not sure why that is such a hard concept for people to get when they see coaches get fired after 2-3-4 years or deciding to leave on their own. Buyouts certainly come into play but if the school wants to make a change it will make a change regardless of what the contract looks like. A coaches world view consists of the current year, a maybe the next couple seasons. Anything beyond that isn't worth spending much time dealing with until it gets closer.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom