Kill on Sport Huddle this a.m.
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gophmeister
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The funny thing about the Mason era was every triumph was followed by a tremendous failure. I was at that Indiana game and will never forget how disappointing it was. Beforehand Tom Moe gave a short speech about how it was the beginning of big things. The big thing turned out to be Mason's one-man blitzkrieg to get the Ohio St job. He literally left town thinking it was all but assured that he got the job. He should have been fired for his behavior, but he had us over a barrel with his bloated contract and the fall out from Ganglegate.
For the life of me, I cannot figure out Masonites. I appreciate that he raised the competitiveness level of the program, scored a few upsets and got us to some bowls, but the program was on a steady decline in his final three years. Add to that his near constant job hunting and there is no doubt the U did the right thing when they let him go.
Great points. I wonder if anyone has ever told Mason that he pissed a lot of coaching talent away. He had some serious momentum going here at times.
The 2nd half meltdowns were tough, but to me the biggest disappointment is wondering how much better it could have been if he had some humility and personality. How many recruits were turned off by his disposition? I know one local HS head coach that was disappointed by his attitude while he recruited his players. I know another who was embarrassed by the way his players were treated when the program hosted his team. One instance I remember was a function for area coaches and remember feeling good about leadership qualities the U was getting from J. Robinson and even Dan Monson (It was early in his stay), but thought good thing Mason can coach because he's not a friendly guy and sure didn't want to be there.
In the end it caught up to him. It was less about the Texas Tech comeback and more about losing the faithful because he couldn't build relationships. I wonder if he has the ability to reflect on how things worked out and how he contributed to the ending. Too bad because he was a good coach and had the ability to take this program to the Rose Bowl. Now he can't get a sniff at Indiana.
That is a perfectly balanced and correct view of his tenure. I also give him the most credit for speaking up about getting football back on campus. I will always give him credit for speaking up even when his bosses were kicking his butt to shut up. Imagine what the program would look like right now without the stadium. I believe he was the guy who convinced the chairman of TCF that it was a big deal, so that is a terrific accoimplishment. He actually may have saved Gopher football by starting the momentum for the stadium.
He did not do it with running the program, he got complacent the last three years and he needed to get coaches who could recruit. Most of his assistants were terrible recruiters. The only guy who could recruit out of state was Browning; he was as good in Ohio and St. Louis as anyone on Brewster's staff was anywhere. That is one coach Brewster could have kept and helped himself.
He did not do it with running the program, he got complacent the last three years and he needed to get coaches who could recruit. Most of his assistants were terrible recruiters. The only guy who could recruit out of state was Browning; he was as good in Ohio and St. Louis as anyone on Brewster's staff was anywhere. That is one coach Brewster could have kept and helped himself.
Question
So Browning was the best and pretty much only recruiter on Mason's staff?
Hammock, Miller and Phelps are clearly the best on Kill's staff we are saying.
How many recognized top recruiters were on Brewster's staff? Hammock is one obviously.
Brewster is two right? Sounds like Kill might be an effective closer though. Was Brewster more than that at Minnesota? I know he was great in his other places with Mack but how big a role did he play prior to sealing the deal on guys at Minnesota? Who else was a big time recruiter on Brewster's staff? Somewhere it has to be factored in Brewster's staff recruited a lot of red flag guys that washed out one way or another...hence 9 juniors or whatever the number etc
So Browning was the best and pretty much only recruiter on Mason's staff?
Hammock, Miller and Phelps are clearly the best on Kill's staff we are saying.
How many recognized top recruiters were on Brewster's staff? Hammock is one obviously.
Brewster is two right? Sounds like Kill might be an effective closer though. Was Brewster more than that at Minnesota? I know he was great in his other places with Mack but how big a role did he play prior to sealing the deal on guys at Minnesota? Who else was a big time recruiter on Brewster's staff? Somewhere it has to be factored in Brewster's staff recruited a lot of red flag guys that washed out one way or another...hence 9 juniors or whatever the number etc
imthewalrus
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We will closely study the Big Ten record: game by game, season by season and decade..
by decade. The problem is quite simple. Too many people don't have a clue just how difficult it is to win Big Ten games in large numbers. Too many people don't realize just how difficult it is to win Big Ten games on the road. Too many people don't realize that it is even difficult to win Big Ten games on the home field. Too many people just don't realize what the past half century of Big Ten Football has been like for the University of Minnesota Football Program. Why have so many coaches failed to even go .500 in Big Ten play? Why have so many failed to go even .400 in Big Ten play? The five years before Mason arrived produced a Big Ten winning percentage of .200. The four years following his departure produced a .250 Big Ten winning percentage in a combined effort by a gm/recruiter and an interm replacement coach. Just what should the "expectations" for a new Minnesota coach be in Big Ten play? Quite possibly, not too high for the first few years, based upon the history of the past 38 seasons of Gopher Football. The average has been a Big Ten winning percentage of .355 in a combined effort from Coaches Stoll, Salem, hoax, Gutey, Wacker, Mason, brewster and Horton.
It will be a while before Coach Kill can be expected to start winning Big Ten games at even the much bashed and hated 40% rate that Mason compiled over a decade playing in the damn dome and having prexy b and maturi as his administrators for the final five seasons or so. I say that Coach Kill has not been left with that much to work with. He, of course, will assess the talent he does have and will put that talent in the best possible schemes to allow them to compete in and win games...ooc games and a few Big Ten games. I look for Coach Kill to win 3 ooc games in his first year and any where from one to possibly three Big Ten games. It MAY be possible for him to qualify for a bowl game in year number one, but I certainly wouldn't count on it. I look for between four and six wins in season number one. And that would be an OUTSTANDING coaching job in my estimation. I hope for more wins, but, wins in Big Ten play are very hard to come by.
The new stadium SHOULD help in recruiting and possibly by creating a home field to defend. I look for Coach Kill to sell that to his players. Will he be able to sell that to the student section if there are some heartbreaking or bad losses early in the season when the weather starts getting cold and "Noverberly?" Our student section has proved to be a major disappointment in the new stadium. They have been a non-factor to a "no-show" element.
Just remember: Big Ten wins are not easy to come by when the schedule includes Michigan, MSU, wisky, iowa, Nebraska and NU. Purdue won't always be as bad as they have been lately and some years Illinois can be pretty tough. You don't get to shed PSU and OSU in the same season all that often and they will be rotating back on the schedule eventually.
It is great that prexy b is as good as gone and that maturi will be gone eventually. Prexy K's arrival may signal a new day...a new dawning...a new era. I hope.
by decade. The problem is quite simple. Too many people don't have a clue just how difficult it is to win Big Ten games in large numbers. Too many people don't realize just how difficult it is to win Big Ten games on the road. Too many people don't realize that it is even difficult to win Big Ten games on the home field. Too many people just don't realize what the past half century of Big Ten Football has been like for the University of Minnesota Football Program. Why have so many coaches failed to even go .500 in Big Ten play? Why have so many failed to go even .400 in Big Ten play? The five years before Mason arrived produced a Big Ten winning percentage of .200. The four years following his departure produced a .250 Big Ten winning percentage in a combined effort by a gm/recruiter and an interm replacement coach. Just what should the "expectations" for a new Minnesota coach be in Big Ten play? Quite possibly, not too high for the first few years, based upon the history of the past 38 seasons of Gopher Football. The average has been a Big Ten winning percentage of .355 in a combined effort from Coaches Stoll, Salem, hoax, Gutey, Wacker, Mason, brewster and Horton.
It will be a while before Coach Kill can be expected to start winning Big Ten games at even the much bashed and hated 40% rate that Mason compiled over a decade playing in the damn dome and having prexy b and maturi as his administrators for the final five seasons or so. I say that Coach Kill has not been left with that much to work with. He, of course, will assess the talent he does have and will put that talent in the best possible schemes to allow them to compete in and win games...ooc games and a few Big Ten games. I look for Coach Kill to win 3 ooc games in his first year and any where from one to possibly three Big Ten games. It MAY be possible for him to qualify for a bowl game in year number one, but I certainly wouldn't count on it. I look for between four and six wins in season number one. And that would be an OUTSTANDING coaching job in my estimation. I hope for more wins, but, wins in Big Ten play are very hard to come by.
The new stadium SHOULD help in recruiting and possibly by creating a home field to defend. I look for Coach Kill to sell that to his players. Will he be able to sell that to the student section if there are some heartbreaking or bad losses early in the season when the weather starts getting cold and "Noverberly?" Our student section has proved to be a major disappointment in the new stadium. They have been a non-factor to a "no-show" element.
Just remember: Big Ten wins are not easy to come by when the schedule includes Michigan, MSU, wisky, iowa, Nebraska and NU. Purdue won't always be as bad as they have been lately and some years Illinois can be pretty tough. You don't get to shed PSU and OSU in the same season all that often and they will be rotating back on the schedule eventually.
It is great that prexy b is as good as gone and that maturi will be gone eventually. Prexy K's arrival may signal a new day...a new dawning...a new era. I hope.
calminnfan
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For Doogie
Meant to start new thread.
Meant to start new thread.
holygopher!
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+1
RodentRampage
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It's not that no one could do better than a .400 Big Ten record here. The U has just made some uninspired hires. Holtz was the only coach we have hired since Warmath who had a winning record as a D-I coach. Stoll had a losing record at Wake Forest. Salem had a good record in D-II, but no D-I experience. Gutekunst had no NC experience, and only two years of DC experience under Holtz. Wacker had good D-II success, but a 40-58-2 record in D-I. Mason had a losing D-I record. Brewster of course had no coordinator or HC experience.
Kill has a winning record as a D-I. It's a refreshing change of pace.
Kill has a winning record as a D-I. It's a refreshing change of pace.
I started this thread and I can assure you that neither Mason's nor Brewster's names came up in any of the discussion with Coach Kill and Sid and Dave.
Can the Walrus or someone else plz start a new thread: "Mason vs. Brewster".
Thx
imthewalrus
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Talk to the people who used this thread to start bashing...
Mason. I merely presented the other side of their slams and bashings of one of te best coaches who has been at Minnesota since Bierman was forced out. When the bashing of Mason begins, a contrast MUST be presnted. It is really very simple. When someone starts bashing, the other side must be presented.
It is also incredibly relevent to Coach Kill. Expectations of coaches are not very realistic here too often. Don't worry, all too soon Coach Kill will start feeling the heat for not winning enough...for not recriting well enough...for not passing the ball enough...for not doing this and not doing that. It will be a long time...if ever... before Coach Kill wins at least 50% of his Big Ten games. If Mason was bashed so badly for winning 40% of his Big Ten games and pulling upsets of some pretty good programs, Coach Kill will be crucified for not dominating Big Ten competition within two years.
Many people won't like his offense and certainly, many people will not like his defense. If he makes the Gophers competetive, that will not be enough.
So, blame the people who brought Mason into your thread. Get all over their cases because they needlessly bashed Mason and brought his name into your thread.
Everyone have a great day! ; 0 )
Mason. I merely presented the other side of their slams and bashings of one of te best coaches who has been at Minnesota since Bierman was forced out. When the bashing of Mason begins, a contrast MUST be presnted. It is really very simple. When someone starts bashing, the other side must be presented.
It is also incredibly relevent to Coach Kill. Expectations of coaches are not very realistic here too often. Don't worry, all too soon Coach Kill will start feeling the heat for not winning enough...for not recriting well enough...for not passing the ball enough...for not doing this and not doing that. It will be a long time...if ever... before Coach Kill wins at least 50% of his Big Ten games. If Mason was bashed so badly for winning 40% of his Big Ten games and pulling upsets of some pretty good programs, Coach Kill will be crucified for not dominating Big Ten competition within two years.
Many people won't like his offense and certainly, many people will not like his defense. If he makes the Gophers competetive, that will not be enough.
So, blame the people who brought Mason into your thread. Get all over their cases because they needlessly bashed Mason and brought his name into your thread.
Everyone have a great day! ; 0 )
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I think he is mentally ill. Not joking. I don't think being wanted is the kind of thing he knows/cares about.
dpodoll68
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I agree. I've posted something to that effect before, and implored him to seek professional help, but clearly that has not been accomplished.
ulfr
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Just to pile in...
I really fail to see Mason as anymore of a success than Brewster. He never got to much better of a bowl game whilst having a much more cupcake laden schedule. Could you see him winning the non-conference slate of the last five years? I can't. His bowl appearances were predicated on beating terrible teams in September something I hold in little esteem. Every triumph would be washed away in a blundering late game collapse. Nor did he beat BCS caliber Iowa or Wisconsin teams, only barely being able to take them on in their down years. So why the nostalgia? Brew gave us two basement bowls as well, before the whole team collectively gave up on him. Mason was the laziest recruiter in the league as evidenced by his penchant for scheduling all visits post-season. I really think if he could have just f'ing tried he might have at least closed down the borders a bit. Look at the class he landed after a 10 win season. Sad.
I really fail to see Mason as anymore of a success than Brewster. He never got to much better of a bowl game whilst having a much more cupcake laden schedule. Could you see him winning the non-conference slate of the last five years? I can't. His bowl appearances were predicated on beating terrible teams in September something I hold in little esteem. Every triumph would be washed away in a blundering late game collapse. Nor did he beat BCS caliber Iowa or Wisconsin teams, only barely being able to take them on in their down years. So why the nostalgia? Brew gave us two basement bowls as well, before the whole team collectively gave up on him. Mason was the laziest recruiter in the league as evidenced by his penchant for scheduling all visits post-season. I really think if he could have just f'ing tried he might have at least closed down the borders a bit. Look at the class he landed after a 10 win season. Sad.