KARE 11: Berggren's Blog: Gophers need more than a brick-sized step

[BleedGopher]

per KARE 11:

No doubt, earning a January 1 bowl game is a large brick for the Gopher football program. But the loss to Missouri equals only a small step forward.

What this program needs is an entire wall to be built. It needs a breakout season. While 2014 had memorable moments like wins in Michigan and Nebraska, it's not enough to draw head-turning attention from national media and big-time recruits.

The Gophers needed to win in Wisconsin and give Ohio State a scare in the Big Ten conference championship or needed a dominating performance on January 1. Those are things to draw in casual Minnesota sports fans and high school standouts.

A spot in the Citrus Bowl is nice, but it only excites the dedicated base who follow the Gophers through anything. A base now enduring rising ticket costs.

http://www.kare11.com/story/sports/...erggren-blog-gophers-need-big-steps/21300379/

Go Gophers!!

 

[LakerFan]

Kind of a non story. You go 8-5 and are one game out of the Big ten championship. I would say winning one more game in the regular season and getting to the Big Ten championship is at the same time a small step and great progress.

Should be underdogs in 7 of the games next year (assuming Michigan recovers) They need to go 5-2 in those 7 and go 4 and 1 in the other 5 to make progress on this year. That would likely be a big ten championship season.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

Kind of a non story. You go 8-5 and are one game out of the Big ten championship. I would say winning one more game in the regular season and getting to the Big Ten championship is at the same time a small step and great progress.

Should be underdogs in 7 of the games next year (assuming Michigan recovers) They need to go 5-2 in those 7 and go 4 and 1 in the other 5 to make progress on this year. That would likely be a big ten championship season.

Depends on who the third loss is to. Losing to Bucky, Iowa, or Nebraska probably means that we finish 2nd. It's probable that one of them will go 7-1 if we don't beat all three of them (Bucky could easily start 7-0 which would mean we'd have to win all our games except TCU and Ohio State). The third loss would have to be a clunker to Purdue, Northwestern, or Michigan for 6-2 to win the division most likely since we will need to make sure we hold all tie breakers with the contenders. That is assuming the first two losses are TCU and Ohio State.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Kind of a non story. You go 8-5 and are one game out of the Big ten championship. I would say winning one more game in the regular season and getting to the Big Ten championship is at the same time a small step and great progress.

Should be underdogs in 7 of the games next year (assuming Michigan recovers) They need to go 5-2 in those 7 and go 4 and 1 in the other 5 to make progress on this year. That would likely be a big ten championship season.

Underdogs in 7? So only favored in 5? We'll be favored against CSU, Ohio, and whatever other bums we play out of conference, so that's three. Purdue, Illinois, and Northwestern gets us to six. I don't know why you'd assume Michigan recovers when they have been on a downward trajectory for several years, and now have Hoke's mess plus Hoke's players learning a new system that they weren't recruited to play. And I think it would be fair to assume we will be favored home against Nebraska, we finished ahead of them in the conference standings, beat them two straight years, and they will also have a new coach.

We will be dogs to TCU, but I think we would be favored in the next 7 (unless we get upset along the way). We will be dogs against OSU regardless, but if we are 7-2 with only losses to TCU and OSU, I think that would get us favored at Iowa (I don't see them having a great year). And, if we get Wisconsin at home with a 9-2 record, I think we will be favored there too.

Long story short, I think that if from the start of the season, we win every game we are favored in and lose every game we are dogs in, we will be favored in 10 games. Obviously, if we get upset along the way, then we would be less likely to be favored later on, and I don't think we would be favored at Iowa or vs. Wisconsin if they were our first game of the season.

 

[die hard gopher]

Underdogs in 7? So only favored in 5? We'll be favored against CSU, Ohio, and whatever other bums we play out of conference, so that's three. Purdue, Illinois, and Northwestern gets us to six. I don't know why you'd assume Michigan recovers when they have been on a downward trajectory for several years, and now have Hoke's mess plus Hoke's players learning a new system that they weren't recruited to play. And I think it would be fair to assume we will be favored home against Nebraska, we finished ahead of them in the conference standings, beat them two straight years, and they will also have a new coach.

We will be dogs to TCU, but I think we would be favored in the next 7 (unless we get upset along the way). We will be dogs against OSU regardless, but if we are 7-2 with only losses to TCU and OSU, I think that would get us favored at Iowa (I don't see them having a great year). And, if we get Wisconsin at home with a 9-2 record, I think we will be favored there too.

Long story short, I think that if from the start of the season, we win every game we are favored in and lose every game we are dogs in, we will be favored in 10 games. Obviously, if we get upset along the way, then we would be less likely to be favored later on, and I don't think we would be favored at Iowa or vs. Wisconsin if they were our first game of the season.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts. Being generous I would say we will be dogs in 4 games but wouldn't be surprised at all if it was fewer than that.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Underdogs in 7? So only favored in 5? We'll be favored against CSU, Ohio, and whatever other bums we play out of conference, so that's three. Purdue, Illinois, and Northwestern gets us to six. I don't know why you'd assume Michigan recovers when they have been on a downward trajectory for several years, and now have Hoke's mess plus Hoke's players learning a new system that they weren't recruited to play. And I think it would be fair to assume we will be favored home against Nebraska, we finished ahead of them in the conference standings, beat them two straight years, and they will also have a new coach.

We will be dogs to TCU, but I think we would be favored in the next 7 (unless we get upset along the way). We will be dogs against OSU regardless, but if we are 7-2 with only losses to TCU and OSU, I think that would get us favored at Iowa (I don't see them having a great year). And, if we get Wisconsin at home with a 9-2 record, I think we will be favored there too.

Long story short, I think that if from the start of the season, we win every game we are favored in and lose every game we are dogs in, we will be favored in 10 games. Obviously, if we get upset along the way, then we would be less likely to be favored later on, and I don't think we would be favored at Iowa or vs. Wisconsin if they were our first game of the season.

I agree, but we are the fans that will follow them no matter what, Berggren is referring

A agree completely. We need to break through and win our division or a good bowl. Seems pretty logical.


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[Some Day...Is Coming!]

MAN, the majority of Sportswriters in the Twin Cities blow. The whole attitude and culture sucks. What quality football coach would want to come here? Answer, hardly any. MN is fortunate to have Kill, Kaler, and Teague. The fricking football program is doing things it hasn't done in 40 to 50 years on a regular basis the last 2 years! Until the facilities get built count your fricken blessings that a guy like Kill is here. He's doing a hell of a lot more than just coaching football, he's selling the program and building a culture.


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[Killjoy]

MAN, the majority of Sportswriters in the Twin Cities blow. The whole attitude and culture sucks. What quality football coach would want to come here? Answer, hardly any. MN is fortunate to have Kill, Kaler, and Teague. The fricking football program is doing things it hasn't done in 40 to 50 years on a regular basis the last 2 years! Until the facilities get built count your fricken blessings that a guy like Kill is here. He's doing a hell of a lot more than just coaching football, he's selling the program and building a culture.


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Right on! The GopherHole at times can be one giant cesspool of negativity. I think its motto must be building a cesspool one post at a time.

 

[Some guy]

MAN, the majority of Sportswriters in the Twin Cities blow. The whole attitude and culture sucks. What quality football coach would want to come here? Answer, hardly any. MN is fortunate to have Kill, Kaler, and Teague. The fricking football program is doing things it hasn't done in 40 to 50 years on a regular basis the last 2 years! Until the facilities get built count your fricken blessings that a guy like Kill is here. He's doing a hell of a lot more than just coaching football, he's selling the program and building a culture.


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Every time you overstate the accomplishments of this program you give more fuel to the media you despise.

fact is, while playing 13 games the gophers won 2 more games once in the last 15 years.
The gophers against a 12 game schedule won one more game once in the last 15 years.

You can be positive about the program without making outlandish false claims like that this team has done two years in a row that they hadn't for 50 years. That is simply either ignorance or lying.

 

[mplsbadger]

He's right about drawing in casual fans but probably wrong about high school standouts. The U would have to have sustained national success IMO to draw significantly higher quality recruits. I think they've already done enough to move to the tier below elite for recruiting. Regular bowl games and kids moving to the NFL get you to the tier they're at now. Next tier requires sustained succes. Who has really ever broken into that next tier other than Oregon?

 

[LakerFan]

Underdogs in 7 was overstated. Probably a pickem game with Northwestern, but I would expect us to be underdogs against OSU, TCU, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, Michigan. Beating Nebraska twice in a row you would think we would be favorites but my guess is that outside of Minnesota there is still little respect for this program and losing the last two games of the season doesn't help our momentum in that area. Michigan is a train wreck but the new coach will have an immediate impact. Because of their history they have the potential to bring in freshman that are bigger faster and stronger than kids we have that are 3 years in.

 

[Maximus]

Every time you overstate the accomplishments of this program you give more fuel to the media you despise.

fact is, while playing 13 games the gophers won 2 more games once in the last 15 years.
The gophers against a 12 game schedule won one more game once in the last 15 years.

You can be positive about the program without making outlandish false claims like that this team has done two years in a row that they hadn't for 50 years. That is simply either ignorance or lying.

1st 4 game Big Ten win streak - 40 years
1st time beating Michigan/Iowa in same season - 47 years
1st win over Nebraska - 50+ years
January 1 bowl - 50+ years
1st win streak over Nebraska - 60 years
Most points score vs. Iowa - 60+ years

Outlandish.

 

[scools12]

Right on! The GopherHole at times can be one giant cesspool of negativity. I think its motto must be building a cesspool one post at a time.

This is type of intelligence and humor you get over at The Daily Gopher.

Just a better class of people.

 

[TheBulldog]

He's right about drawing in casual fans but probably wrong about high school standouts. The U would have to have sustained national success IMO to draw significantly higher quality recruits. I think they've already done enough to move to the tier below elite for recruiting. Regular bowl games and kids moving to the NFL get you to the tier they're at now. Next tier requires sustained succes. Who has really ever broken into that next tier other than Oregon?

They are not there yet. Not even close. Not in terms of consensus prospect/class ranking anyway.

This team isn't even pulling in top 50 recruiting classes nationally. 4 and 5 star players are still not coming here, with the exceptions of Jones and Garcia, two flukey in-state guys who happen to love the program and want to stay close to family. You can't even consider Garcia a true 4-star guy after a few downgrades. You have to think there is a good chance Jones ends up somewhere else is he would've been an obvious qualifier, also. Otherwise, they haven't even shown an ability to keep highly touted kids from their backyard.

According to 247, they're dead last in the B1G West. That isn't even sniffing "a tier below Oregon." They're not even a tier below the Skunks at this point. They are behind the likes of Illinois, Purdue, Northwestern, Iowa, etc....even Indiana from the east.

Whether the rankings/stars are a fair representation of the classes is irrelevant (I know that's where some smart ass is going to go with it). The fact is, the Gophers still aren't getting big-time, highly recruited kids in here. They aren't even close to "just below elite" in recruiting. At this point, only Rutgers and Michigan have lower ranked recruiting classes in the entire B1g, and the Gophers are about to scrape the proverbial bottom of the barrel of 2 star guys to fill out. Michigan will fly past us once they get their first 5-star, which is inevitable. They'll be lucky if they don't have the lowest ranked recruiting class in the B1G when signing day rolls around (and this is assuming they don't have any any major last- minute flips, which I'm certain will happen, it happens to every program).

The Gophers have a long, long, long way to go before they are even an average power 5 recruiter. They have a long way to go before you can even call them an average B1G recruiter. Kill and Co. Are great at identifying under-the-radar athletes, transforming them in the weight room and coaching them up. But, as far as bringing in elite talent, they stink. Only time will tell if that's really a product of the facilities (as Kill claims) or not.

 

[Killjoy]

This is type of intelligence and humor you get over at The Daily Gopher.

Just a better class of people.

As to your question, no since it was posted here. As far as a better of class of people there, that was not a serious comment. It was just a little pimp to see what kind of reaction it would get. In reality, there are many significant difference between the two sites. Some of these are good while other may be bad. I will let people make up there own mind as to what they are. Personally, I find TDG to be s a good place to seek peace and quiet during one of GopherHole's all too often meltdowns/pissing contests, i.e. TDG is not so manic-depressive.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

He's right about drawing in casual fans but probably wrong about high school standouts. The U would have to have sustained national success IMO to draw significantly higher quality recruits. I think they've already done enough to move to the tier below elite for recruiting. Regular bowl games and kids moving to the NFL get you to the tier they're at now. Next tier requires sustained succes. Who has really ever broken into that next tier other than Oregon?

1. Elite Recruiting
2.
3.
4. Minnesota
5.
6. Bad Power 5 Recruiting

And I would not call Oregon an elite recruiting program. Not in the least bit. They are consistently in the 20-25 range for team rankings. They recruit slightly better than Wisconsin but are nowhere near the level of Alabama or Ohio State.

 

[ruppertflywheel]

They are not there yet. Not even close. Not in terms of consensus prospect/class ranking anyway.

This team isn't even pulling in top 50 recruiting classes nationally. 4 and 5 star players are still not coming here, with the exceptions of Jones and Garcia, two flukey in-state guys who happen to love the program and want to stay close to family. You can't even consider Garcia a true 4-star guy after a few downgrades. You have to think there is a good chance Jones ends up somewhere else is he would've been an obvious qualifier, also. Otherwise, they haven't even shown an ability to keep highly touted kids from their backyard.

According to 247, they're dead last in the B1G West. That isn't even sniffing "a tier below Oregon." They're not even a tier below the Skunks at this point. They are behind the likes of Illinois, Purdue, Northwestern, Iowa, etc....even Indiana from the east.

Whether the rankings/stars are a fair representation of the classes is irrelevant (I know that's where some smart ass is going to go with it). The fact is, the Gophers still aren't getting big-time, highly recruited kids in here. They aren't even close to "just below elite" in recruiting. At this point, only Rutgers and Michigan have lower ranked recruiting classes in the entire B1g, and the Gophers are about to scrape the proverbial bottom of the barrel of 2 star guys to fill out. Michigan will fly past us once they get their first 5-star, which is inevitable. They'll be lucky if they don't have the lowest ranked recruiting class in the B1G when signing day rolls around (and this is assuming they don't have any any major last- minute flips, which I'm certain will happen, it happens to every program).

The Gophers have a long, long, long way to go before they are even an average power 5 recruiter. They have a long way to go before you can even call them an average B1G recruiter. Kill and Co. Are great at identifying under-the-radar athletes, transforming them in the weight room and coaching them up. But, as far as bringing in elite talent, they stink. Only time will tell if that's really a product of the facilities (as Kill claims) or not.

Right now they're a top 50 class which is above average. If they land 3 or 4 three star recruits they will end up with a class in the mid 40's and about 7th in the B1G. So shut your pie hole.

 

[supadupafly]

The most important question has still not been asked. Who in the hell is Berggren?

 

[Friend of the U]

Right now they're a top 50 class which is above average. If they land 3 or 4 three star recruits they will end up with a class in the mid 40's and about 7th in the B1G. So shut your pie hole.

I think Bulldog is making a good point about elite players. Kill's classes are devoid of 4 or 5 star recruits. However, in defense of Jerry without competitive facilities it is a challenge to bring in the 4 and 5 star kids. Once Jerry has competitive facilities he'll have a much better chance at reeling in those 4 and 5 star athletes. If Jerry can develop 4 and 5 star athletes like he has shown he can develop 3 star kids that will translate to more wins which will accelerate the program.

 

[atsgopher]

They are not there yet. Not even close. Not in terms of consensus prospect/class ranking anyway.

This team isn't even pulling in top 50 recruiting classes nationally. 4 and 5 star players are still not coming here, with the exceptions of Jones and Garcia, two flukey in-state guys who happen to love the program and want to stay close to family. You can't even consider Garcia a true 4-star guy after a few downgrades. You have to think there is a good chance Jones ends up somewhere else is he would've been an obvious qualifier, also. Otherwise, they haven't even shown an ability to keep highly touted kids from their backyard.

According to 247, they're dead last in the B1G West. That isn't even sniffing "a tier below Oregon." They're not even a tier below the Skunks at this point. They are behind the likes of Illinois, Purdue, Northwestern, Iowa, etc....even Indiana from the east.

Whether the rankings/stars are a fair representation of the classes is irrelevant (I know that's where some smart ass is going to go with it). The fact is, the Gophers still aren't getting big-time, highly recruited kids in here. They aren't even close to "just below elite" in recruiting. At this point, only Rutgers and Michigan have lower ranked recruiting classes in the entire B1g, and the Gophers are about to scrape the proverbial bottom of the barrel of 2 star guys to fill out. Michigan will fly past us once they get their first 5-star, which is inevitable. They'll be lucky if they don't have the lowest ranked recruiting class in the B1G when signing day rolls around (and this is assuming they don't have any any major last- minute flips, which I'm certain will happen, it happens to every program).

The Gophers have a long, long, long way to go before they are even an average power 5 recruiter. They have a long way to go before you can even call them an average B1G recruiter. Kill and Co. Are great at identifying under-the-radar athletes, transforming them in the weight room and coaching them up. But, as far as bringing in elite talent, they stink. Only time will tell if that's really a product of the facilities (as Kill claims) or not.

Recruiting is not performed in a vacuum.

The Gophers play a different style than most teams in D-1. So when you state "they stink" at bringing in elite talent, well, I say you need to allow for the differeing needs of the program versus those who bring in the 4 and 5 star kids.

In reality, the Gophers are magically, "coaching kids up." Weight room knowledge is better here than most other programs. It is a function of supply and demand. We demand a different type of athlete. They are currently, our of favor, so supply is in excess, thus, they get rated lower.

The spread is currently in vogue. It requires a certain type of smaller athlete. Since most programs drool over those athletes, they are given higher ratings. However, the gophers, generally, don't recruit these types. They choose, a contrarian approach. We do not use the spread, So the recruits we need, will generally get rated lower, as they are not in demand. However, they still have skills, just as strong as many of the more sought after do, in relation to the popular systems.

Now of course there are differences in coaching systems and and weight programs.... but all things being equal, the reasons for our recent run of successes, likely stems from the abundance of muscle to fit our schemes, as opposed to some arbitrary rankings doled out by people that are appealing to the tastes of popular football gossip.

 

[Some Day...Is Coming!]

1st 4 game Big Ten win streak - 40 years
1st time beating Michigan/Iowa in same season - 47 years
1st win over Nebraska - 50+ years
January 1 bowl - 50+ years
1st win streak over Nebraska - 60 years
Most points score vs. Iowa - 60+ years

Outlandish.

Thank you Maximus, saved me some typing.

 

[maroonedinCA]

Right now they're a top 50 class which is above average. If they land 3 or 4 three star recruits they will end up with a class in the mid 40's and about 7th in the B1G. So shut your pie hole.

Assuming nobody else signs other kids.

 

[Some guy]

1st 4 game Big Ten win streak - 40 years
1st time beating Michigan/Iowa in same season - 47 years
1st win over Nebraska - 50+ years
January 1 bowl - 50+ years
1st win streak over Nebraska - 60 years
Most points score vs. Iowa - 60+ years

Outlandish.

You mention a lot of names. Here are some numbers:
Michigan was 5-7 this year. Iowa was 6-7.
The gophers got 4th in the big ten and went to a January 1 bowl. That's nice. The gophers have gotten 4th in the big ten multiple times in the 40 years you speak of.
First win over Nebraska in 40 years...but it was only the 9th time they had played in 40 years. If we played Washington this year and beat them it would have been our first win vs Washington in 30+ years.
4 game winning streaks in the big ten are matters of scheduling...are you saying if they had had the same record with wins and records vs the same teams it would have been less impressive in a different order?


You vastly overrate this season and last. Very good, yes. Unheard of results? Not close.
Good for you for being so positive though.

 

[mplsbadger]

I think some people missed my point. The writers words were, "Big Time Recruits". The Gophers are never going to draw "Big Time Recruits" in anything other than men's and women's hockey. There is not a single five star recruit committed to a Big Ten school right now. If you are waiting for this, bring a good book to read because you are going to be waiting forever.

My point was that if you rule out "Big Time Recruits", the Gophers have done enough to get attention from the next tier. Recruits no longer say "who?" when Minnesota calls. They signed the MVP of a national all star game. This is going to be as good as it gets.

Will they trade 3-4 3* guys for 4* guys if they win the Rose Bowl? Maybe, Wisconsin has after winning the conference a half dozen times. Northwestern did not after winning it three times. I used the word 'tier' for a reason. I think there are four of them. 1) Elite 2) Good 3) Big Five losers 4) MAC. They are no longer in the Big Five losers group and they'll never be in the Elite group. Are they at the bottom of the "good" group? I don't think so, not based on who they are sending to the league.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

You mention a lot of names. Here are some numbers:
Michigan was 5-7 this year. Iowa was 6-7.
The gophers got 4th in the big ten and went to a January 1 bowl. That's nice. The gophers have gotten 4th in the big ten multiple times in the 40 years you speak of.
First win over Nebraska in 40 years...but it was only the 9th time they had played in 40 years. If we played Washington this year and beat them it would have been our first win vs Washington in 30+ years.
4 game winning streaks in the big ten are matters of scheduling...are you saying if they had had the same record with wins and records vs the same teams it would have been less impressive in a different order?


You vastly overrate this season and last. Very good, yes. Unheard of results? Not close.
Good for you for being so positive though.

Thank you Some guy, saved me some typing. The domino's just fell the right way for the Gophers to play on Jan 1. They were by far the worst team playing on Jan 1, and would have been the worst team playing on the 31st.

 

[dpodoll68]

Right now they're a top 50 class which is above average. If they land 3 or 4 three star recruits they will end up with a class in the mid 40's and about 7th in the B1G. So shut your pie hole.

Compared to their peer institutions (Power 5 schools), top 50 is not above average, or even at average.

 

[Maximus]

You mention a lot of names. Here are some numbers:
Michigan was 5-7 this year. Iowa was 6-7.
The gophers got 4th in the big ten and went to a January 1 bowl. That's nice. The gophers have gotten 4th in the big ten multiple times in the 40 years you speak of.
First win over Nebraska in 40 years...but it was only the 9th time they had played in 40 years. If we played Washington this year and beat them it would have been our first win vs Washington in 30+ years.
4 game winning streaks in the big ten are matters of scheduling...are you saying if they had had the same record with wins and records vs the same teams it would have been less impressive in a different order?

You vastly overrate this season and last. Very good, yes. Unheard of results? Not close.
Good for you for being so positive though.

So you confirm everything I posted was true and then finish with the opinion that I overrate those facts.

Gee...sure we won the national title in 1960 but that was only because it was awarded before the Rose Bowl. This board sure overrates that national title.