Just the way it goes in the never ending arms race called college sports.

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Gopherhurrin

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Wisconsin wants to build a new $76 million dollar "sports facility"/recruiting facility. Those with the most money, Wisconsin, Ohio State, etc build so they can maintain their recruiting advantage over those who have less money. It goes on, and on, and on, and on and on. There is no end in sight, nor is there any functionality, nor value, nor "redeeming social value", nor utility, nor etc in all of this.

At some point, somebody has to publicly scream "Stop!!". We are teaching our young athletes to be baby, spoiled, self centered, weak valued and silly human beings. I am not criticizing the Badgers over us or any other program. This is all just nuts. At some point some group of regents, university presidents or someone has to just say: "We're out."

I would add that I do believe a small example of what needs to be done has been done by the NCAA in regards to the media guilds that every program produces each year. I think they have imposed limits on the size they can be. No more "our media guide is bigger than their media guide!" :clap::(
 

It will continue until it becomes unsupportable. Some schools already have said no, they are D-II and D-III. Plenty of D-II and D-III schools to choose from if you really want to vote against the arms race.
 

Gopherhurrin said:
At some point some group of regents, university presidents or someone has to just say: "We're out."(
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As long as we say it last.

I don't disagree with you at all, but who's going to be the first to say this (and the first to be fired)?
 

We're all have our fingers in this. Do any of us REALLY want the U's President to say "We're out"? Have people really thought about what that means? At one level, it's deemphasizing athletics, and letting it starve. Or drop down to I-AA. Or dropping athletics altogether. That's what "we're out" means.

We could do this if we really wanted. But those who decry the arms race would be among the first to object to this. And that President would quickly be replaced.

But it's already been done for us, Augsburg College is right next to the U, I could go to their games, and try to work up some excitement for MIAC sports.

If the arms race is a problem, it is not going to be solved by individual schools saying "we're out". It would require some sort of NCAA regulation. I do think that the isolation and pampering of athletes can get excessive, and this doesn't do any favors for those who aren't going pro. The red carpet treatment doesn't last forever.
 

Considering we're less than a year removed from building a $288 million football stadium, I don't think we're in any position to call them out on this...
 


I think UW reinvesting some hard-earned, self-supported revenue to update a terribly antiquated facility is certainly on the more reasonable spectrum of modern renovations.

Certainly less drastic than say, a struggling program deciding to build an entire stadium and facilities using tax dollars in a state with serious budget issues. Also- a university selling it's name to a tongue twister bank chain in order to fill in for the rest of the already exhausted funds? That's what I think is the wrong direction with college athletics. You got to wonder if Steams County isn't too happy to have their name plastered on the vacuum that sucked all the money away from their own football program.
 

alltimetwinsfan said:
Considering we're less than a year removed from building a $288 million football stadium, I don't think we're in any position to call them out on this...
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My thoughts exactly. How many times has our new stadium been referred to as an awesome (or maybe tremendous) recruiting tool. The cat is way too far out of the bag to be criticizing Wisconsin for building a new practice facility. Big time sports will remain big money sports until, as another poster said, it becomes unsustainable. That point has clearly not yet been reached major college football.
 

Regdab said:
I think UW reinvesting some hard-earned, self-supported revenue to update a terribly antiquated facility is certainly on the more reasonable spectrum of modern renovations.

Certainly less drastic than say, a struggling program deciding to build an entire stadium and facilities using tax dollars in a state with serious budget issues. Also- a university selling it's name to a tongue twister bank chain in order to fill in for the rest of the already exhausted funds? That's what I think is the wrong direction with college athletics. You got to wonder if Steams County isn't too happy to have their name plastered on the vacuum that sucked all the money away from their own football program.
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Why would you complain about tax dollars being spent on a stadium and then criticize a university for selling the naming rights to lower the tax burden. Seems rather inconsistent.
 

alltimetwinsfan said:
Considering we're less than a year removed from building a $288 million football stadium, I don't think we're in any position to call them out on this...
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Exactamundo.

Don't get me wrong... I hope the wisky athletic buildings crumble and burn. But we have no business complaining about this.
 



Regdab said:
I think UW reinvesting some hard-earned, self-supported revenue to update a terribly antiquated facility is certainly on the more reasonable spectrum of modern renovations.

Certainly less drastic than say, a struggling program deciding to build an entire stadium and facilities using tax dollars in a state with serious budget issues. Also- a university selling it's name to a tongue twister bank chain in order to fill in for the rest of the already exhausted funds? That's what I think is the wrong direction with college athletics. You got to wonder if Steams County isn't too happy to have their name plastered on the vacuum that sucked all the money away from their own football program.
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I think your real moniker should be Elohssa. That would be more representative.
 


Regdab said:
I think UW reinvesting some hard-earned, self-supported revenue to update a terribly antiquated facility is certainly on the more reasonable spectrum of modern renovations.

Certainly less drastic than say, a struggling program deciding to build an entire stadium and facilities using tax dollars in a state with serious budget issues. Also- a university selling it's name to a tongue twister bank chain in order to fill in for the rest of the already exhausted funds? That's what I think is the wrong direction with college athletics. You got to wonder if Steams County isn't too happy to have their name plastered on the vacuum that sucked all the money away from their own football program.
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And what I did with yo' mamma was on the reasonable end of the spectrum.

You object to building an entire stadium? Do you then propose building HALF a stadium? Which half would you build? Building half a stadium is like building half a bridge. The stadium was approves when the state's budget situation wasn't so severe. And it put a lot of people to work.

Which is it? You object to using tax dollars AND you object to getting private funding? How is TCF a "tongue twister". It's three letters, and it's very, very easy to say. Even for you.

Steams County? What in the world is that? Do you mean Stearns County? Money wasn't sucked away from St. Cloud State's football team. St. Cloud State has a new football stadium, it was built in 2004. St. Cloud State not only has 5 assistant athletic directors. Between the AD and the 5 assistant AD's, that's a $428,000 dollars. They have a $500,000 shortfall, and a grossly bloated management in the athletic department. That is the cause of their shortfall.
 

Why do people expect intelligent thought,

...from a guy who thinks badger reversed is some sort of uncrackable code?
Let's see, The erector set to the east was built with public money, and been updated several times with public money. Now, they want to do an update and it's not public money and that equals some sort of moral high ground?
 



alltimetwinsfan said:
Considering we're less than a year removed from building a $288 million football stadium, I don't think we're in any position to call them out on this...
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Perhaps you missed the middle part of my post, "I am not criticizing the Badgers over us or any other program. This is all just nuts."

If you want to know why some teams win and some teams can't you need look no farther than the budgets, facilities and money from the fans. This is why the NFL has more fans than college ball in many places. Fans want a fair shot at winning and the above system does not foster parity at all. Additionally, all this spending does not improve the product in any way. It is just an endless arms race. Stupid.
 

Regdab said:
I think UW reinvesting some hard-earned, self-supported revenue to update a terribly antiquated facility is certainly on the more reasonable spectrum of modern renovations.

Certainly less drastic than say, a struggling program deciding to build an entire stadium and facilities using tax dollars in a state with serious budget issues. Also- a university selling it's name to a tongue twister bank chain in order to fill in for the rest of the already exhausted funds? That's what I think is the wrong direction with college athletics. You got to wonder if Steams County isn't too happy to have their name plastered on the vacuum that sucked all the money away from their own football program.
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Badger(regdaB):

The major concern for a lot of programs is the escalation of Coaches salaries. The direct criticism of Wisconsin was mild at best. The certainly needed to upgrade Camp Ripley it was becoming a dump and your right they had the money to do it, so they did.

" Wisconsin athletic officials are asking for a $76.8 million athletic performance center in the next two-year state budget, five years after a $109.5-million expansion of Camp Randall Stadium.


But such as the case with most trolls you had to type on, not that your opinion means anything around here, we know that you're not trying to be rational but:

"According to the proposal, the athletics department would borrow $50 million against its program's revenue and expects $26.8 million in gifts and grants to pay for it. According to a fundraising document, officials are asking for $7 million for naming rights to the building."

"The proposal says bond payments would be made using ticket revenue and the anticipated increase in funds from the Big Ten's expansion, the conference championship game beginning in 2011 and usage fees paid by UW Hospital and Clinics, which would run the sports medicine clinic on the third floor of the building."

- "gifts and grants" - Tax deductible or maybe even government based?

- "usage fees paid by UW Hospital and Clinics" - Here must be the private enterprise section.

- Here's the beaut " $7 million for naming rights to the building[/B].[/I]" I'm guessing that as long as it's not a tongue twister like the Kohl's Center it will be fine. :clap:
 

Gopherhurrin said:
Wisconsin wants to build a new $76 million dollar "sports facility"/recruiting facility. Those with the most money, Wisconsin, Ohio State, etc build so they can maintain their recruiting advantage over those who have less money. It goes on, and on, and on, and on and on. There is no end in sight, nor is there any functionality, nor value, nor "redeeming social value", nor utility, nor etc in all of this.

At some point, somebody has to publicly scream "Stop!!". We are teaching our young athletes to be baby, spoiled, self centered, weak valued and silly human beings. I am not criticizing the Badgers over us or any other program. This is all just nuts. At some point some group of regents, university presidents or someone has to just say: "We're out."

I would add that I do believe a small example of what needs to be done has been done by the NCAA in regards to the media guilds that every program produces each year. I think they have imposed limits on the size they can be. No more "our media guide is bigger than their media guide!" :clap::(
Click to expand...

Everyone's favorite college basketball coach is likely (if he hasn't already) to leverage a multi-million $$$ practice facility to keep him from skipping town when a decent offer comes his way.
 

Well, I think there's a difference between private gifts from generous alumni (Senator Kohl) and selling your soul to a random bank chain when they clearly only care about using it as a billboard. Maybe that's just me.

Another difference that's important to note about our previous projects and UM's is that we had and do have more than enough money on our own to fund our projects. The burden- if any- on state taxpayers is not an issue, as it shouldn't be. We built the Kohl Center in the mid-90's when the Wisconsin economy was at a pinnacle and the teams it was to house were and are capable of successfully selling out the large venue with ticket buyers and have since. You built your smaller sized stadium in the middle of the worst economic depression since the 1930's and are stretching to sell all of it's seats- even when they are relatively cheaply priced. Not trying to rip too much, but it is a BIG difference.

Not trying to be too cleaver with the name Regdab- it actually used to be our mascot's original name. Congrats for figuring out that it is "Badger" backwards though!

As to the "half of a stadium" comment... come on man... you're setting your own trap! I won't bother with the punch line...
 

A few thoughts.

1. TCF got a great deal when they bought the naming rights to TCF Bank Stadium. I think they paid like $35 million for a 25 year deal. Also they get a bunch of exclusive rights in terms of marketing to students, alumi, staff, etc also they got exclusive rights for ATM's on U property when the U's current deal runs out. I'm not sure of all the details, but TCF is going to come out WAY ahead on naming rights deal.

2. If Wisconsin wants to build the facility more power to them. While the arms race in college athletics in going to continue in the future(I personally think its going to explode again when we get out of this recession) and Wisconsin is trying to get ahead of it.

3. If Gopher fans have a problem with Wisconsin(or any one else) getting ahead/staying ahead of the Gophers on the facilities front, somebody(or a collection of people) need to step up and donate a bunch of money to update the Gibson-Nagurski Football Complex.

BTW the way does anyone know what type of shape that building is in? Is it really "state-of-the-art", does it need a little TLC, does it need a full blown renovation, should they just tear the place down and start over? If anyone can shed some light on this it would be great.

4. Does anyone have any pictures/rendering of the proposed building Wisconsin is wanting to build. Thank you in advance.
 


Regdab said:
Here's the rendering:

http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/wis/graphics/pdf/AFMP_6575.pdf
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You sure....I think this is the updated version:

white-turd-poo-steaming-pile-of-crap-2-plus-size_design.png
 

You're the one who thinks TCF is a tongue-twister. TCF is not a "random bank". The odds of "Twin Cities Federal" being chosen at random is pretty low. Someone of your limited intellect just might not realize that the name Twin Cities is quite familiar to people who live in the Twin Cities. And should be familiar to a lot of Wisconsin alumni, because they all have to come here to get jobs.

You built your smaller sized stadium in the middle of the worst economic depression since the 1930's and are stretching to sell all of it's seats- even when they are relatively cheaply priced.
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Liar. The project wasn't built in the middle of the recession, it was started before it even began. And it is about an average sized I-A football stadium. But had we built a larger stadium it would have cost a lot more. So if you're concerned out the cost of it during a recession (again, it was started BEFORE the recession began) then you can't turn around and say that we should have spent more on the stadium! The stadium can be expanded later in better financial times.

And, no, I haven't stepped in any trap. Wile E. Coyote is far better at setting up traps than you are. TCF Bank Stadium is a fine stadium, your dishonest smack notwithstanding.
 

Regdab said:
Well, I think there's a difference between private gifts from generous alumni (Senator Kohl) and selling your soul to a random bank chain when they clearly only care about using it as a billboard. Maybe that's just me.

Another difference that's important to note about our previous projects and UM's is that we had and do have more than enough money on our own to fund our projects. The burden- if any- on state taxpayers is not an issue, as it shouldn't be. We built the Kohl Center in the mid-90's when the Wisconsin economy was at a pinnacle and the teams it was to house were and are capable of successfully selling out the large venue with ticket buyers and have since. You built your smaller sized stadium in the middle of the worst economic depression since the 1930's and are stretching to sell all of it's seats- even when they are relatively cheaply priced. Not trying to rip too much, but it is a BIG difference.

Not trying to be too cleaver with the name Regdab- it actually used to be our mascot's original name. Congrats for figuring out that it is "Badger" backwards though!

As to the "half of a stadium" comment... come on man... you're setting your own trap! I won't bother with the punch line...
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- Well of course there's a difference. The "Kohl's" comment was because of your, rather convoluted for sure, complaint about TCF being almost unpronounceable. The point you choose to ignore however, is that there's no difference to what Wisconsin is saying they are going to do now:

"..officials are asking for $7 million for naming rights to the building." That is the same damn thing you were complaining about unless of course you just don't like them banks.:confused:

- Just for the record while the building took place during a recession the bonds (I think) were also sold before the bottom went out.

Then again as Gopherhrrin said " THIS WASN'T A SHOT AT WISCONSIN!

Though yeah, I am enjoying the irony if him getting frustrated with any poster ignoring the main points of his post to go off on a tangent. :clap::clap::clap::clap:
 

Iceland12 said:
- Well of course there's a difference. The "Kohl's" comment was because of your, rather convoluted for sure, complaint about TCF being almost unpronounceable. The point you choose to ignore however, is that there's no difference to what Wisconsin is saying they are going to do now:
..officials are asking for $7 million for naming rights to the building." That is the same damn thing you were complaining about unless of course you just don't like them banks.:confused:
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Well either way, I think the "Kohl Center" rolls off the tongue a bit nicer than the "TCF Bank Stadium". Judging from all the stink that many Gopher fans put up when the news of the naming deal came out, I don't think I'm alone.

Wisconsinites were proud to put the name of a well-known and respected senator who has fiercely supported not only our University and it's Athletics, but also someone who has been a champion for the entire state for many, many years. He gave a gift at his personal expense- Kohl's Department Stores had nothing to do with it.

The $7 million for naming rights will NOT be given away to a chain bank I can assure you of that. It will either be a single private donor or a family. Probably with relevant ties directly to the University.
 



Maybe it will be named for Wisconsin hero Jeffrey Dahmer. Or it could be named after Wisconsin legend Bryan James Hathaway, best known for having sex with dead animals. Or it could be named the Nicholas and Alexander Grunke Center, after two Wisconsin twin brothers who dug up a grave so they could have sex with the dead body.
 


You all sure get antsy when faced with a real life conversation about athletics. I suppose I'm not surprised though...

At least save yourselves from this outcome and avoid starting ill-conceived threads that make zero sense.
 

Regdab said:
The $7 million for naming rights will NOT be given away to a chain bank I can assure you of that. It will either be a single private donor or a family. Probably with relevant ties directly to the University.
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It was noble to donate the building, much like the arena where the Bucks play, but please..

The naming rights are sold but that's not the point. I thought I was kidding but you really are hung-up on the idea that a bank :mad: would purchase naming rights.

Department stores, department store magnets, chemical companies, brewers, South African brewers, land barons, car companies etc. those are all okay but a BANK! Not in Wisconsin!

That's just...weird.:confused:
 

Regdab said:
You all sure get antsy when faced with a real life conversation about athletics. I suppose I'm not surprised though...

At least save yourselves from this outcome and avoid starting ill-conceived threads that make zero sense.
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Well...that post makes sense. Thanks a pants load. Try not to have sex with any deer on the way out the door.
 

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