JuCo/transfers impact....

[Bob_Loblaw]

Now, I'm not really writing this to bash Brew, in fact, I still support the idea of bringing on a couple JuCo guys if it helps our team, but I am curious what everyone's thoughts are on the impact these kids have had on our program. This is entirely for the sake of discussion...

My point is this:

On defense, we were so depleted that despite bringing on some JuCo guys, we weren't able to RS most of our defensive players. So do you think it would have been beneficial to have been just playing the younger guys instead of using them enough to lose their redshirt but not enough to gain a ton of experience.

So instead of Simoni Lawrence, K. Cooper or G. Tinsley would have been getting a ton of snaps. Instead of Simmons, one of the younger guys (Carter, K. Lewis, etc.). Instead of C. McKinley, Wilhite/Jacobs would have been getting all of those snaps. Rather than Royston/Brock, it would have been either Collado shifted to S or Watkins.

Now, I know it wasn't possible for Brew to have done that (he would have been ran out of town earlier and possibly impacted the development of our entire team), but does anyone think our defense would be in a much different position today, had we gutted it out with the younger guys instead?


Note: I think the JuCo/transfers on offense aren't in the same boat because they served a different purpose. The fact that Wills and Carufel are Gophers has allowed us to RS Olson, Michel, and Gjere. This is a benefit that most of the defensive juco/transfers didn't bring with them.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Not complicated.

10 or 11 new starters on defense. It doesn't get much more simple than that.

With last year's defense, this team is EASILY 4-2, possibly 5-1; and last year's defense was not much better than average.

Take 3 players from last year's defense, ANY three players, and put them on this year's defense to replace 3 of the inexperienced rubes that have been starting and they would be 3-3. More simply put, if the only seniors on your defense are Theret and Collado, you just MIGHT have some serious concerns with experience.


People are looking way too much into this. You can't expect to replace 10 starters on ONE side of the ball and not expect major problems.


If you take a good long look at the depth chart for this team, you can't come to any other conclusion than Mason shouldn't have been fired, he should have been taken out and shot.

It's reasonable to expect, for any decent program, that you should have 6-8 seniors/5th year seniors on the team each year that are starters/impact players. They should be the strength and the heart of your team. These would be the last of Mason's guys this year.

What do the Gophers have from that regime? Weber, Collado, and DJ Burris (if you wanted to be generous you could throw Dom Alford in the mix, who was replaced by a RS Fresh). This is the heart of your team? Really? That's what we're going with? I never really knew why the people close to the program had so much contention and disdain for Mason, but it's becomingly abundantly clear now.

I'm no Brew advocate, far from it. Brew appears to be all but gone and we'll be moving on. But the fact remains that Mason's successor was set up for failure and you can tell from watching him on the BT Network that he's enjoying it. It's too bad.

 

[drinks at Northpoint]

take a good long look at the depth chart for this team, you can't come to any other conclusion than Mason shouldn't have been fired, he should have been taken out and shot.

It's reasonable to expect, for any decent program, that you should have 6-8 seniors/5th year seniors on the team each year that are starters/impact players. They should be the strength and the heart of your team. These would be the last of Mason's guys this year.

What do the Gophers have from that regime? Weber, Collado, and DJ Burris (if you wanted to be generous you could throw Dom Alford in the mix, who was replaced by a RS Fresh). This is the heart of your team? Really? That's what we're going with? I never really knew why the people close to the program had so much contention and disdain for Mason, but it's becomingly abundantly clear now.

I'm no Brew advocate, far from it. Brew appears to be all but gone and we'll be moving on. But the fact remains that Mason's successor was set up for failure and you can tell from watching him on the BT Network that he's enjoying it. It's too bad.

I believe that this is what Brewster is referring to when he says the program is light years ahead of where it was when he started. Chuckleheads like Barreiro savage him when he says that because they only look at the W-L record. Brewsters successor is going to have numerous players with a red shirt season behind them. Top programs always have numerous 5th year seniors as starters and team leaders. It's easy to paint Brewster as a total failure because of all the losses. It's hard to sell people on the good things he has done to build the program.
I agree that he was set up to fail and compounded the failure by switching offensive schemes 3 times.

 

[KoolAid]

I think it's harder to step in and play right away on defense. Honestly, I wish there were a couple more Juco's on this year's D. That Thorton kid would have really helped.

Cooper really needed that redshirt to learn the LB position. Same with Tinsley. Simmons gave us a good two years and I thought Carter played the right amount last year.

Honestly, Brew had some good luck with his Juco's. They usually don't turn out this well at most programs. I don't even care that Hayo and Pittman's game changing speed was never utilized.

 

[mnsports1]

If you take a good long look at the depth chart for this team, you can't come to any other conclusion than Mason shouldn't have been fired, he should have been taken out and shot.

Best line I've read on here in my month and a half.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

I believe that this is what Brewster is referring to when he says the program is light years ahead of where it was when he started. Chuckleheads like Barreiro savage him when he says that because they only look at the W-L record. Brewsters successor is going to have numerous players with a red shirt season behind them. Top programs always have numerous 5th year seniors as starters and team leaders. It's easy to paint Brewster as a total failure because of all the losses. It's hard to sell people on the good things he has done to build the program.
I agree that he was set up to fail and compounded the failure by switching offensive schemes 3 times.

I've said it before, I'll say it again; whether it's Brew or the new guy, the HC of the Gophers next year is my early odds on favorite to be COY in the Big Ten. They will come off a horrendous year this year so even a .500 record will look like a massive improvement, they bring back almost everybody, and will have a defense loaded with returning starters.

15 of the top 22 guys on the 2-deep chart for the defense will be back not just NEXT year but the year after. That has the potential to be very very good on that side of the ball for a change.

 

[Silvio]

I've said it before, I'll say it again; whether it's Brew or the new guy, the HC of the Gophers next year is my early odds on favorite to be COY in the Big Ten. They will come off a horrendous year this year so even a .500 record will look like a massive improvement, they bring back almost everybody, and will have a defense loaded with returning starters.

15 of the top 22 guys on the 2-deep chart for the defense will be back not just NEXT year but the year after. That has the potential to be very very good on that side of the ball for a change.

As a Minnesota sports fan, we couldn't get that lucky. The one thing I thought when Brew was hired was that if it didn't' work out at least the talent in the program would be greatly increased. I forgot to factor in the possibility that some of that talent could transfer.

 

[50PoundHead]

I agree Bob_Loblaw. We've got a ton of guys on the team who are juniors that should be red-shirt sophomores.

 

[Great Plains Gopher]

A lot of people don't like jucos because they don't always pan out and they can't be developed, onviously, in a five year plan. But Bill Snyder his first time around at K-State and again now, relied heavily on jucos and nearly won the national championship with a bunch of them including an All-American QB. The Gophers desperately needed juco help in the D-backfield, at defensive end, linebacker, with running backs and at QB, but didn't get it. One run ning back of the Clay mold can make a huge difference as can a QB who can hit at 70% regularly. Now it's too late.

 

[50PoundHead]

Great Plains, I agree that if you go out and get some JC guys in your first class to hold things over for two years until you can get a pipeline of 4-year guys in place, it can be a viable strategy.

For whatever reason, Brewster wasn't content to take his lumps in Year 2 and he should have. I don't know if it would have made any difference in the big picture, but it sure would be nice to have guys like Edwards, Kirksey, Tinsley, Stoudermire, McKnight, and Green here beyond 2011. Those guys were ready to contribute as freshman, but not to the extent that it made that much of a difference in the whole scheme of things.

 

[Silvio]

Brew chose to kick the can down the road with JUCO's on defense and is taking his lumps now. I would guess this was in reaction to all the negativity he received during 2007. That was going to be a terrible year not matter who was the coach. I think Mason probably would have been in the 3-4 win range and I don't think anyone on this board would applaud him for his in game coaching skills(they do however appear to be better than Brew's). My feeling is Brew came in the Mack Brown at UNC plan (take your LUMPS for two years) and move forward but the honeymoon was gone after the first year.

To me this is the major problem with the extended fan base. They are bandwagon fans with all the sports options in the state, they won't "tolerate" losing and will tune out from going to games but will call into talk shows, while they have little in depth knowledge or information about the actual state of the program. They assume that college is like the NFL and teams can be turned around as quickly. As proof they cite the exception to the rule (Alvarez) and demand that the program be turned around in that time frame, which if you look at it from a program stand point was near perfection. I am also making a guess that in BA's first rose bowl year he also benefited from the BigTen rotating schedule (I may very well be wrong). We also cite Brew for not knowing what he wanted to do (spread, prostyle, etc.) he very well have had no clue what his style should have been, but those radical decisions also show signs that he was feeling no support from the University and the Athletic department and that he was operating under a truncated time frame to rebuild.

 

[50PoundHead]

Brew chose to kick the can down the road with JUCO's on defense and is taking his lumps now. I would guess this was in reaction to all the negativity he received during 2007. That was going to be a terrible year not matter who was the coach. I think Mason probably would have been in the 3-4 win range and I don't think anyone on this board would applaud him for his in game coaching skills(they do however appear to be better than Brew's). My feeling is Brew came in the Mack Brown at UNC plan (take your LUMPS for two years) and move forward but the honeymoon was gone after the first year.

To me this is the major problem with the extended fan base. They are bandwagon fans with all the sports options in the state, they won't "tolerate" losing and will tune out from going to games but will call into talk shows, while they have little in depth knowledge or information about the actual state of the program. They assume that college is like the NFL and teams can be turned around as quickly. As proof they cite the exception to the rule (Alvarez) and demand that the program be turned around in that time frame, which if you look at it from a program stand point was near perfection. I am also making a guess that in BA's first rose bowl year he also benefited from the BigTen rotating schedule (I may very well be wrong). We also cite Brew for not knowing what he wanted to do (spread, prostyle, etc.) he very well have had no clue what his style should have been, but those radical decisions also show signs that he was feeling no support from the University and the Athletic department and that he was operating under a truncated time frame to rebuild.

That's my impression as well Silvio and you've done a better job spelling it out. I don't want to say Brewster was going to be this great success, but his impatience did not serve him well in his quest to improve the program. We are experiencing Year 1 and Year 2 performances this season in the fourth year. That shouldn't be happening.

 

[BeerBibleBullets]

10 or 11 new starters on defense. It doesn't get much more simple than that.

With last year's defense, this team is EASILY 4-2, possibly 5-1; and last year's defense was not much better than average.

Take 3 players from last year's defense, ANY three players, and put them on this year's defense to replace 3 of the inexperienced rubes that have been starting and they would be 3-3. More simply put, if the only seniors on your defense are Theret and Collado, you just MIGHT have some serious concerns with experience.


People are looking way too much into this. You can't expect to replace 10 starters on ONE side of the ball and not expect major problems.


If you take a good long look at the depth chart for this team, you can't come to any other conclusion than Mason shouldn't have been fired, he should have been taken out and shot.

It's reasonable to expect, for any decent program, that you should have 6-8 seniors/5th year seniors on the team each year that are starters/impact players. They should be the strength and the heart of your team. These would be the last of Mason's guys this year.

What do the Gophers have from that regime? Weber, Collado, and DJ Burris (if you wanted to be generous you could throw Dom Alford in the mix, who was replaced by a RS Fresh). This is the heart of your team? Really? That's what we're going with? I never really knew why the people close to the program had so much contention and disdain for Mason, but it's becomingly abundantly clear now.

I'm no Brew advocate, far from it. Brew appears to be all but gone and we'll be moving on. But the fact remains that Mason's successor was set up for failure and you can tell from watching him on the BT Network that he's enjoying it. It's too bad.

Agree, you could tell the Mason era had peaked a couple years before the firing. But I cant believe the drop in talent that he brought in.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I've said it before, I'll say it again; whether it's Brew or the new guy, the HC of the Gophers next year is my early odds on favorite to be COY in the Big Ten. They will come off a horrendous year this year so even a .500 record will look like a massive improvement, they bring back almost everybody, and will have a defense loaded with returning starters.

15 of the top 22 guys on the 2-deep chart for the defense will be back not just NEXT year but the year after. That has the potential to be very very good on that side of the ball for a change.

Yeah, I was actually thinking the same thing. We might be a terrible program to arrive to in terms of salary/athletic department for one of the BCS schools, but the next coach is going to be in a much better position to suceed than Brew. In some weird way, the program will be in a better position when Brew leaves than when he arrived. I know that sounds insane to say that about this team (compared to the bowl team), but I really believe it's true.

I'm not saying this as an argument for Brew to stay on another year, his losses to USD and Northern Illinois were simply unacceptable.