Joseph Decision

[gopherpride32]

It's been said that Cory will make his decision after the Jordan Brand Classic, are they talking about right after or a couple days after?

My thoughts on the schools left:
UNLV--Can't see a 5 star player going there, only left on for respect to the university much like Seantrel did to Minnesota.
Texas--Could only seeing him go there if he wants to go one-and-done and play along with Tristan Thompson
UConn--Can't see him going there since the coaching situation is up and down every year and Kemba Walker is already there.
Villanova--A very possible choice, always a possible final four contender. Great coach, and Scottie Reynolds is gone, so playing time is there.
Minnesota--Would feel very comfortable playing with his brother and Walker. Has the best coach out of anybody left on his list.

I think Minnesota stacks up very well against all the other schools, and could be a final four team if he decides to come play for the Gophers.

 

[dpodoll68]

It's been said that Cory will make his decision after the Jordan Brand Classic, are they talking about right after or a couple days after?

My thoughts on the schools left:
UNLV--Can't see a 5 star player going there, only left on for respect to the university much like Seantrel did to Minnesota.
Texas--Could only seeing him go there if he wants to go one-and-done and play along with Tristan Thompson
UConn--Can't see him going there since the coaching situation is up and down every year and Kemba Walker is already there.
Villanova--A very possible choice, always a possible final four contender. Great coach, and Scottie Reynolds is gone, so playing time is there.
Minnesota--Would feel very comfortable playing with his brother and Walker. Has the best coach out of anybody left on his list.

I think Minnesota stacks up very well against all the other schools, and could be a final four team if he decides to come play for the Gophers.

I was right there with you until you got to the bolded part above. I don't know anyone other than Tubby's mom who would place him above Jim Calhoun. So, if you would rather go by a matrix of who's the "hottest" (not necessarily the "best") coach right now (i.e., considering Calhoun's health and that he's going to retire relatively soon), I think most would probably place Tubby behind Wright and Barnes, at minimum. So, no matter which way you judge it (historically or now) Tubby is at best 2nd or 3rd among the coaches.

At any rate, I think the "effectiveness" or "draw" of the coaches is way down on his list anyway. It seems like who he would get to play with, and his comfort with the style of play the coach employs, are way more important to him.

 

[Minnie Soda]

...I think most would probably place Tubby behind Wright and Barnes, at minimum. So, no matter which way you judge it (historically or now) Tubby is at best 2nd or 3rd among the coaches.

That's ridiculous. Tubby Smith has a National Championship, as well as having the longest active streak of 20-plus win seasons.

Rick Barnes and Jay Wright are solid coaches, but neither of them has won a national title. Tubby Smith ranks ahead of both of those guys, and it's not just a Minnesota bias that makes me write that.

 

[dpodoll68]

That's ridiculous. Tubby Smith has a National Championship, as well as having the longest active streak of 20-plus win seasons.

Rick Barnes and Jay Wright are solid coaches, but neither of them has won a national title. Tubby Smith ranks ahead of both of those guys, and it's not just a Minnesota bias that makes me write that.

Go back and read again, sir.

I said "hottest (not necessarily the "best")". Read that as "coach that guys would rather play for".

If Tubby is a "hotter" coach right now, why does he get his ass kicked by Wright and Barnes year-in and year-out on the recruiting trail? Moreover, why do those guys go deep in the tournament practically every year, while Tubby struggles to make the tournament? And yes, I understand that Tubby is only part of the way through restoring the program to prominence. But the point still stands.

Don't get me wrong - I love Tubby and I hope he stays here for the rest of his career. But people talk about him around here like he's an all-time great coach. He's not. He's no better than Top 10 among active coaches, at the very best.

If there were a poll started here stating "which coach would you rather have right now", and people put their homerism aside, Wright would win handily over Tubby. Despite the fact that he underachieves most every year, I venture that Barnes would probably win over Tubby as well because of his abilities as a recruiter. And if you did the same poll five years ago, no doubt Calhoun would absolutely crush Tubby.

So, like I've already said: No matter which way you judge it, Tubby is, AT BEST, second or third on any "rankings" of the five coaches. Period.

 

[Minnie Soda]

I said "hottest (not necessarily the "best")". Read that as "coach that guys would rather play for".

I'm not sure how the mind of an 18-year old kid works these days, but I'd much rather go play for an established coach with a long history of winning and a National Championship ring on his finger. "Hot" coaches -- assuming you don't have a man crush on Jay Wright or Rick Barnes -- are fine, but if I'm judging success, I look for a coach who's won at several schools, and has maintained that success for a long time. I'm not saying Wright and Barnes aren't good coaches. They each have solid programs.

If Tubby is a "hotter" coach right now, why does he get his ass kicked by Wright and Barnes year-in and year-out on the recruiting trail?

How do you quantify something like that? I think the types of recruiting classes schools get year in and year out depends as much, if not more, on the ability of the assistant coaches than it does on the head coach. If the head coach has earned a solid reputation, which Tubby has, that helps to attract an initial interest. And the head coach is usually the guy who seals the deal with home visits. But, in between, it's the hard work and effort of a program's assistants that can make or break a successful recruiting class.

Moreover, why do those guys go deep in the tournament practically every year, while Tubby struggles to make the tournament? And yes, I understand that Tubby is only part of the way through restoring the program to prominence. But the point still stands.

Well, this is not to say that Jay Wright and Rick Barnes haven't taken several teams deep into the tournament, but it didn't happen this year. Villanova was knocked off in the second round, while Texas had the same fortune as the Gophers. Tubby's all-time NCAA Tournament record is like 29-14 or something along those lines. He's no slouch. Yes, the Gophers have lost first-round games the past two years. But Coach Smith is still in the process of getting his recruits into the program, and the Gophers will soon be much more likely to make a deep run into the tounament. Let's not forget that Minnesota was 9-22 the year before Tubby was hired.

Don't get me wrong - I love Tubby and I hope he stays here for the rest of his career. But people talk about him around here like he's an all-time great coach. He's not. He's no better than Top 10 among active coaches, at the very best.

Tubby Smith is a no-doubter for the Collegiate Basketball Hall of Fame, and he IS an all-time great coach. The percentage of coaches who have won a Division I National Title is razor thin, and Coach Smith is one of the few to say he's done it.

 

[dpodoll68]

I have two questions for you:

1) Take the five coaches mentioned. Rank them according to career accomplishments.

2) Take the five coaches mentioned. Rank them according to their accomplishments over the last five years.

If Tubby is #1 on either of those lists, you are on drugs. That was my whole point, as a refutation of the claim that "Tubby is the best coach left on Joseph's list." Nothing more, nothing less.

It's not relevant to this discussion, but let me ask you one more question. What is your threshold for "greatness"? Would Tubby even be included in a list of the 50 greatest college basketball coaches ever? How can you consider him "great" if he's not even in that conversation? HOF ≠ greatness, in my opinion. There are plenty of guys in all sports HOFs that I don't consider anywhere near "great".

 

[scher215]

Last season tubby had a better or equal recruiting class to both Texas and Nova. Unfortunately for tubby tho though, Texas and Nova recruits didn't steal from their local Macy's like his did.

 

[Unregistered User]

I would add that Barnes may be a hotter recruiter right now, but he is a horrible coach. Not that those two things are mutually exclusive.

 

[Minnie Soda]

That was my whole point, as a refutation of the claim that "Tubby is the best coach left on Joseph's list." Nothing more, nothing less.

It's not relevant to this discussion, but let me ask you one more question. What is your threshold for "greatness"? Would Tubby even be included in a list of the 50 greatest college basketball coaches ever? How can you consider him "great" if he's not even in that conversation? HOF ≠ greatness, in my opinion. There are plenty of guys in all sports HOFs that I don't consider anywhere near "great".

There is no system in place to make an absolute judgment here, as we all have our own criteria for deciding what makes a coach great. I'm not saying that Tubby Smith is #1. But I do like his career accomplishments as much, if not more, than both Jay Wright and Rick Barnes, as neither of those guys has won a National Title.

As far as my threshold for greatness? I can almost guarantee you that Tubby Smith will be inducted into the Collegiate Basketball Hall of Fame sometime in the future. Coaches who take three (and hopefully four) programs to the Sweet 16, win a national championship, and have streaks of almost 20 consecutive seasons with 20 or more victories are usually considered "great." And I honestly would not be surprised if Tubby could make that list of the Top 50 college basketball coaches. He'd probably be between No. 40 and 50, but just thinking offhand, I think he has accomplished enough to make the list. If not, he'd definitely be among the second 50. And, I can assure you that Jay Wright and Rick Barnes would not yet merit consideration.

And, no, I don't do drugs.

 

[GopherGod]

I'm not sure how the mind of an 18-year old kid works these days, but I'd much rather go play for an established coach with a long history of winning and a National Championship ring on his finger. "Hot" coaches -- assuming you don't have a man crush on Jay Wright or Rick Barnes -- are fine, but if I'm judging success, I look for a coach who's won at several schools, and has maintained that success for a long time. I'm not saying Wright and Barnes aren't good coaches. They each have solid programs.



How do you quantify something like that? I think the types of recruiting classes schools get year in and year out depends as much, if not more, on the ability of the assistant coaches than it does on the head coach. If the head coach has earned a solid reputation, which Tubby has, that helps to attract an initial interest. And the head coach is usually the guy who seals the deal with home visits. But, in between, it's the hard work and effort of a program's assistants that can make or break a successful recruiting class.



Well, this is not to say that Jay Wright and Rick Barnes haven't taken several teams deep into the tournament, but it didn't happen this year. Villanova was knocked off in the second round, while Texas had the same fortune as the Gophers. Tubby's all-time NCAA Tournament record is like 29-14 or something along those lines. He's no slouch. Yes, the Gophers have lost first-round games the past two years. But Coach Smith is still in the process of getting his recruits into the program, and the Gophers will soon be much more likely to make a deep run into the tounament. Let's not forget that Minnesota was 9-22 the year before Tubby was hired.



Tubby Smith is a no-doubter for the Collegiate Basketball Hall of Fame, and he IS an all-time great coach. The percentage of coaches who have won a Division I National Title is razor thin, and Coach Smith is one of the few to say he's done it.

I am a big Tubby fan and want him to finish his career here but your argument is somewhat flawed. The last I checked the head coach is responsible for selecting his assistants so if they are not up to par then it falls on the head coach. By your definition of success above then you would have to include Lon Kruger in that list as well instead of just dismissing him and UNLV.

 

[dpodoll68]

I'm not saying that Tubby Smith is #1. But I do like his career accomplishments as much, if not more, than both Jay Wright and Rick Barnes, as neither of those guys has won a National Title.

Thank you for admitting that I was right all along, and there was no need for you to jump on my post in the first place. I appreciate it.

 

[Minnie Soda]

I am a big Tubby fan and want him to finish his career here but your argument is somewhat flawed. The last I checked the head coach is responsible for selecting his assistants so if they are not up to par then it falls on the head coach. By your definition of success above then you would have to include Lon Kruger in that list as well instead of just dismissing him and UNLV.

Of course the head coach is responsible for hiring capable assistants who are good recruiters. And I think Ron Jirsa, Vince Taylor, Saul Smith, and Joe Esposito are a fantastic team to have here. I didn't mean to imply that the head coach isn't responsible for the recruiting classes, only that he's not the only one responsible. And I didn't mean to dismiss Lon Kruger, either. I know one of Kruger's assistants, Greg Grensing, who is a fabulous recruiter. So I wouldn't completely rule out UNLV, but I think it's a long-shot at best.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

I have two questions for you:

1) Take the five coaches mentioned. Rank them according to career accomplishments.

2) Take the five coaches mentioned. Rank them according to their accomplishments over the last five years.

If Tubby is #1 on either of those lists, you are on drugs. That was my whole point, as a refutation of the claim that "Tubby is the best coach left on Joseph's list." Nothing more, nothing less.

It's not relevant to this discussion, but let me ask you one more question. What is your threshold for "greatness"? Would Tubby even be included in a list of the 50 greatest college basketball coaches ever? How can you consider him "great" if he's not even in that conversation? HOF ≠ greatness, in my opinion. There are plenty of guys in all sports HOFs that I don't consider anywhere near "great".

http://www.dbwoerner.com/basketball/coaches/coach110.html Calhoun 1st, Tubby 2nd on this list of best NCAA W-L (%) record among active coaches.

Tubby ranks highest among those 5 coaches for best overall W-L (%) record, overall:

No. Coach Team Yrs. Won Lost Pct.
1. Roy Williams ......................North Carolina ........................................21 594 138 .811
2. Mark Few............................Gonzaga ..................................................10 264 66 .800
3. Jamie Dixon ........................Pittsburgh ..................................................6 163 45 .784
4. Bruce Pearl..........................Tennessee................................................17 415 121 .774
5. Bo Ryan...............................Wisconsin................................................25 576 176 .766
6. John Calipari .......................Kentucky.................................................17 441 139 .760
7. Mike Krzyzewski ................Duke........................................................34 833 274 .752
8. Thad Matta ..........................Ohio St. .....................................................9 229 77 .748
9. Mark Fox.............................Georgia......................................................5 123 43 .741
10. Rick Pitino ..........................Louisville ................................................23 552 197 .737
11. Jim Boeheim .......................Syracuse ..................................................33 799 288 .735
12. Bob Huggins .......................West Virginia ..........................................27 639 234 .732
13. Bill Self ...............................Kansas .....................................................16 376 145 .722
14. Rick Majerus.......................St. Louis ..................................................22 456 176 .722
15. Sean Miller..........................Arizona......................................................5 120 47 .719
16. Tubby Smith........................Minnesota................................................18 429 170 .716
17. Tom Izzo .............................Michigan St.............................................14 336 137 .710
18. Danny Kaspar......................Stephen F. Austin....................................18 377 156 .707
19. Billy Donovan.....................Florida.....................................................15 345 146 .703
20. Jim Calhoun ........................Connecticut .............................................37 805 342 .702

 

[CollegeBBallFan]

Rather than bashing coaches, let's pretend Cory's decision is more about who you pal-around with during the other hours of your day. Who do you want to play with? Who do you want to play video games or eat, room, or watch TV with? My bet - Devoe and Mo and make Mommy happy.

 

[Section201]

The "Best" Coach

I have a huge bias towards Tubby in this discussion but in the context of this discussion we are talking about an 18 year old kid picking the "Best" Coach for his future. There are probably many things that might attract a kid to any one coach. Style of play, style of communication skills, record getting to the tourney, record of getting players to the NBA, etc, etc.

I find it very interesting that kids with a parent with strong basketball background, Colt, RSIII, and Hollins, have picked Tubby. I think those are very meaningful endorsements.

I know if my kid was picking and had an opportunity to play for Tubby I would be all over that.

Go Gophers!

 

[Section201]

CBBFan

Rather than bashing coaches, let's pretend Cory's decision is more about who you pal-around with during the other hours of your day. Who do you want to play with? Who do you want to play video games or eat, room, or watch TV with? My bet - Devoe and Mo and make Mommy happy.

I absolutely agree this will be a part of the decision making process. Both Devoe and Cory seem to be very solid, well grounded young men. I have to think the family angle works in our favor. When Mom comes to see one of her sons, she gets to see them both! Cory and Devoe can live what I have to assume was a childhood dream of playing together at a high level.

It seems obvious that both will advance to professional ranks but this is their only opportunity to play together in college.

Wherever Cory goes, I wish him well.

I for one am very happy to have Devoe in hand. I just hope we have a PG next season so Devoe can fire away from the 2 spot!

 

[MinneMike]

I absolutely agree this will be a part of the decision making process. Both Devoe and Cory seem to be very solid, well grounded young men. I have to think the family angle works in our favor. When Mom comes to see one of her sons, she gets to see them both! Cory and Devoe can live what I have to assume was a childhood dream of playing together at a high level.

It seems obvious that both will advance to professional ranks but this is their only opportunity to play together in college.

Wherever Cory goes, I wish him well.

I for one am very happy to have Devoe in hand. I just hope we have a PG next season so Devoe can fire away from the 2 spot!

I agree. But Minnesota has a town called Little Canada. That should count for something...hey?

 

[MinneMike]

Talk about the intangilbes:

Don't they say "betcha" in both Minnesota and Canada? (check)
They say "beauty ah" in Canada but not Minnesota? (uncheck)
Steve Nash plays here twice a year? (check)

 

[Gopher Teeth]

I agree. But Minnesota has a town called Little Canada. That should count for something...hey?

That should be phrased:
"That should count for something. . . eh?"