Jerry Palm's Friday Bracket (collegerpi.com)

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SelectionSunday

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Last 4 In (play-in games in Dayton): Dayton vs. Gonzaga/Gophers vs. VCU

First 4 Out: Butler, Clemson, Drexel, Virginia Tech

I'm stunned by Dayton's inclusion, I don't even have them on my at-large board. Not sure what he sees there, but Jerry is the guy that was 34-for-34 on the at-larges last year so he must see something.
 

I'm surprised he has the Gophers in, but I'll take it. He!!, might as well be first to play in the expanded format. Gotta be first at something.
 


SS

Another question. Why does everyone use the label 'first four out'? To me 'first four out' would mean the four teams with the worst records in all of basketball. "Last four out' would seem more appropriate to me. I've heard explanations before but I either don't remember or didn't agree.
 

I see it used either way. I prefer first 4 out, so that's what I go with.

When I think of "first 4 out", I'm thinking of the first 4 (best) teams left out of the tournament. To me the last 4 (worst) would be the shi**iest teams.
 


I don't see how "last four out" makes any kind of logical sense.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Last 4 In (play-in games in Dayton): Dayton vs. Gonzaga/Gophers vs. VCU

First 4 Out: Butler, Clemson, Drexel, Virginia Tech

I'm stunned by Dayton's inclusion, I don't even have them on my at-large board. Not sure what he sees there, but Jerry is the guy that was 34-for-34 on the at-larges last year so he must see something.
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I might be a little late to the party as I just looked at the Dayton Format. Interesting twist to the "The First Four".

QUOTE:

"The Division I Men’s Basketball Committee announced today that the University of Dayton will host the 2011 NCAA First Four, the four first-round games of next year’s championship. Two games will feature teams battling to advance as two of the tournament’s No. 16 seeds, while the other two games will pit the last four at-large teams selected to the field."

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect...o+host+inaugural+First+Four+games+March+15-16


Maybe Palm is including Dayton as a nod to Dayton as the Host city.

Edit: Just to clear up the Dayton Format --- it is really the final eight which includes games involving the last 4 at large & the last 4 16 seeds trying to become the last 4 in.
 

rcpratt said:
I don't see how "last four out" makes any kind of logical sense.
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To me 'last four out' is much more logical. I would think the four sh!tiest(to use ss term) would be out before any team that was still in the discussion.
 

I liken it to if you were lining all the teams up in order of rank 1 to 320 whatever. 1-68 walk in the door of the club, but then 69-72 are the first four "kicked out", or not let in. So they're the first four left out.
 



Monty519 said:
I liken it to if you were lining all the teams up in order of rank 1 to 320 whatever. 1-68 walk in the door of the club, but then 69-72 are the first four "kicked out", or not let in. So they're the first four left out.
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Wouldn't teams 317-320 be out long before teams 69-72?

On Selection Sunday teams 69-72 would still be in the discussion. I think teams 317-320 would have been out of the discussion for a long time.
 

I think the First Four out should be the losers of THE FIRST FOUR in Dayton. They would be the first four out of the last 68 in or should that be the last four out of the First 68 in? 69-72 should be the first 4 in the NIT.
 


Why do people feel we need to go 9-9 in the Big Ten to have any chance at making the Tournament? We are currently 6-9 and people have us right on the line, but we NEED to win our next 3 games to make the Tournament? Doesn't make sense to me. Would 8-10 not still give us a decent chance assuming there aren't many surprises in the conference tourneys?
 



mattw1067 said:
Why do people feel we need to go 9-9 in the Big Ten to have any chance at making the Tournament? We are currently 6-9 and people have us right on the line, but we NEED to win our next 3 games to make the Tournament? Doesn't make sense to me. Would 8-10 not still give us a decent chance assuming there aren't many surprises in the conference tourneys?
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The reason we're 6-9 and still on the bubble is because the games we have left are so winnable. That is factoring in to projections. If the games we had remaining were OSU, Wisconsin and Purdue, chances are they'd be leaving us for dead. I think we need 4 more wins to be somewhat safe. If we end up 8-10 we need to be prepared to win 2 games in the BTT. Outside chance 8-10 and one BTT win will do it, but I wouldn't have a lot of confidence. Al coming back would give us some benefit of the doubt in this case.
 


FWIW - I am on board with "first four out."

The NCAA Selection Committee is literally selecting the teams that are in the tourney. First team selected is the #1 seed and "first team in." 2nd best team "second team in." The 68th team is the "last team in." No. 69 is the "first team out." No. 70 is the "second team out."

To suggest that No. 69 is the "last team out" would indicate that the NCAA Selection Committee was starting at #345 and working back. If No. 69 was the "last team out" then No. 68 would logically have to be considered the "first team in." The committee is choosing teams to be included in the field, not teams to be eliminated. Best team is #1 - first team in. #68 is last team in. #69 is first team out. #345 is last team out.
 

tjgopher said:
FWIW - I am on board with "first four out."

The NCAA Selection Committee is literally selecting the teams that are in the tourney. First team selected is the #1 seed and "first team in." 2nd best team "second team in." The 68th team is the "last team in." No. 69 is the "first team out." No. 70 is the "second team out."

To suggest that No. 69 is the "last team out" would indicate that the NCAA Selection Committee was starting at #345 and working back. If No. 69 was the "last team out" then No. 68 would logically have to be considered the "first team in." The committee is choosing teams to be included in the field, not teams to be eliminated. Best team is #1 - first team in. #68 is last team in. #69 is first team out. #345 is last team out.
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They are(bold). At the begining of each year every team is eligible for the tournament. At the end of the selection process it comes down to selecting a few teams to fill the remaining spots. Using the eight team 'bubble' concept would mean the committe would have to decide which four of the eight are in and which four are not in(out). At this point there are 64 teams already in and 200+ already out. Now the four that are in are the 'last ones in', and the four that are 'out' would be the last ones out.

Even as we speak today there are 200 teams that are already 'out'. Yes they could win a conference tournament, but that would be decided before the selection committe had to decide on the bubble team.

The 'last four out' would be the last four teams that were still in the discussion to make the field
 

The committee does not work backwards and eliminate teams. They start with the top seeds and work their way back to the play-in games.
 

rcpratt said:
The committee does not work backwards and eliminate teams. They start with the top seeds and work their way back to the play-in games.
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So as of today there are no teams that are out?:rolleyes:

Has the #69 team already been tossed out before and 0-25 team? I would venture to say there are some teams that are already out, therefore being the 'first out'.
 

station19 said:
They are(bold). At the begining of each year every team is eligible for the tournament. At the end of the selection process it comes down to selecting a few teams to fill the remaining spots. Using the eight team 'bubble' concept would mean the committe would have to decide which four of the eight are in and which four are not in(out). At this point there are 64 teams already in and 200+ already out. Now the four that are in are the 'last ones in', and the four that are 'out' would be the last ones out.

Even as we speak today there are 200 teams that are already 'out'. Yes they could win a conference tournament, but that would be decided before the selection committe had to decide on the bubble team.

The 'last four out' would be the last four teams that were still in the discussion to make the field
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No, the Selection Committee decides who is IN, not who is OUT. They do so by creating a pecking order and bell curve. They choose #1 - top team. First team in. They choose #2 - next team in. They continue to do this, until they get to #68 - last team in. No. 69 was under consideration, but missed -- first team out. No. 70 - next team out, etc.
 

station19 said:
So as of today there are no teams that are out?:rolleyes:

Has the #69 team already been tossed out before and 0-25 team? I would venture to say there are some teams that are already out, therefore being the 'first out'.
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I can only thinks of 5 teams that are truly eliminated right now - Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, Columbia, and Yale. But I guarantee the selection committee doesn't know or care about that. They pick and seed the teams that are in, not out.
 

rcpratt said:
I can only thinks of 5 teams that are truly eliminated right now - Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, Columbia, and Yale. But I guarantee the selection committee doesn't know or care about that. They pick and seed the teams that are in, not out.
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Yes Ivy League no tournament.

So if there are 5 teams already 'out', how can four teams yet to be determined, be the 'first out'?

I assume 'last four in' means the last four teams in the tournament.

What does 'first four out' mean. What are they first at.

BTW there's not much intersting on the board right now so I will hang with this.:)
 



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